Phil Hughes vs. Clay Buchholz, who would you rather have?

[metalboy15]

Originally Posted by Yankees1962

One problem, they can't afford to layoff his changeup and curveball if he throws them for strikes.

My point is that if he can´t throw his fastball for strikes consistently, why would hitters swing at garbage at the dirt?... hitters are stupid, but not that stupid.

Let´s see if he can throw his off-speed stuff for strikes consistently, It´s only been 2 starts, In his 1st start he was missing with his curveball badly.

[metalboy15]

Even after no-no, Hughes is better prospect than Buchholz

In the course of answering a question posted as a comment to my last entry regarding the Yankees’ new “Big Three”, I said the following: “[Clay] Buchholz looks great, but I’ve always felt that the comparison to Hughes was a bit inflated. He’s a great prospect, but he’s 23 and his AAA performance was good, but not great.” Now that Buchholz has thrown a no-hitter, and especially since Hughes has struggled since his return from the disabled list, I’m sure there are Sox fans looking those words over.

But I’ll stand by them, with all due respect to Buchholz and his no-no. I congratulate him, and I still think he is a helluva prospect. But he doesn’t have Hughes’ ceiling and the no-hitter is no reason to change my evaluation of him...

http://mvn.com/mlb-yankees/2007/09/0...ie-no-hitters/

[MaximMan121]

Agreed---Congratulations to Clay.

He's a great pitcher, and I'd love to have him on my squad--but I wouldn't swap him for Hughes (though, frankly, that requires some faith in the idea that he'll come back next year like the pre-injury Hughes.)

[hlrjr]

hughes almost had a no-hitter this year as well (i think in his second start as well). i'll still stick with him.

kudos to clay.

[nyyfanboy]

I'd still take Hughes over Buchholz because when he is right Hughes' command just makes him that much better than Clay.He'll get back there soon.

[genius-24]

Buchholz has weird delivery action.

His main advantage is his change up. He kept hitters off balance today and he got the result.

[AMarshal2]

Now that's what his hammer looks like when it's on. The ump didn't even know what to do with it. There were no less than 4 right down the middle strikes called a ball. It was so weird.

I would say tonight was a fair representation of his fastball command. He either hits his spot right on the money or misses by a wide margin. It's really strange. I think it's his delivery with all the excess movement. Most guys miss by a little but Clay is always hit or miss.

He's actually feeling some fatigue in his legs. His fastball velocity was just a shade below where he usually is.

[sugmasterflex]

Congrats Clay.

It's only downhill from here.

[Metroidman]

Him and Hughes currently have about an equal ceiling

Hughes has more projection though

And Hughes is still the better prospect.

[AMarshal2]

Originally Posted by Metroidman

Him and Hughes currently have about an equal ceiling

Hughes has more projection though

And Hughes is still the better prospect.

I honestly think Clay's ceiling is a little higher and I've felt that way for a long time. Remember when H2.50 tried to rip me apart for saying that Clay's stuff "looks a little more swing and miss to me?" Well, I still stand by that. I think it's pretty laughable to try and project the careers of 21-23 year old pitchers who have similarly excellent stuff and minor league track records. We have no idea who's going to do what. I don't think one of them is a shoe-in for a front of the rotation starter either. Even putting injuries aside, anything can happen. That said, if forced to choose, I would take Hughes.

[Metroidman]

I dont see how Clays' ceiling is higher

They both throw the same speeds

Hughes has a better curve but Clay's is not far behind

Curve has the better change by far but Hughes is still developing his

Hughes has better fastball command

All in all they both have equal stuff right now. They both can improve in areas and have equal ceilings

But Hughes still has projection left due to the fact he is 21

[AMarshal2]

Originally Posted by Metroidman

I dont see how Clays' ceiling is higher

They both throw the same speeds

Hughes has a better curve but Clay's is not far behind

Curve has the better change by far but Hughes is still developing his

Hughes has better fastball command

All in all they both have equal stuff right now. They both can improve in areas and have equal ceilings

But Hughes still has projection left due to the fact he is 21

I feel like it's easier to develop fastball command than it is to develop a plus-plus change-up. I'm not really interested in debating it though. I'm just giving my opinion with as little bias as I can.

[Metroidman]

Originally Posted by AMarshal2

I feel like it's easier to develop fastball command than it is to develop a plus-plus change-up. I'm not really interested in debating it though. I'm just giving my opinion with as little bias as I can.

I dont know man Iv'e seen pitchers struggle with FB Command more than anything

And Hughes already flashes a plus change. He's just not consistent with it.

[ppa79]

Originally Posted by AMarshal2

I feel like it's easier to develop fastball command than it is to develop a plus-plus change-up. I'm not really interested in debating it though. I'm just giving my opinion with as little bias as I can.

It is? Go tell that to AJ Burnett, Jeff Weaver, and countless other major league pitcher who have good raw stuff but no command over it.

[Javadawg44]

Originally Posted by ppa79

It is? Go tell that to AJ Burnett, Jeff Weaver, and countless other major league pitcher who have good raw stuff but no command over it.

Uhh, ok....so did Burnett, Weaver or "countless other major league pitcher" develop a plus-plus change instead? If not, then I'm not sure the relevance to the above discussion.....

[ppa79]

Originally Posted by Javadawg44

Uhh, ok....so did Burnett, Weaver or "countless other major league pitcher" develop a plus-plus change instead? If not, then I'm not sure the relevance to the above discussion.....

The discussion was that its easier to develop fastball command. So why haven't those guys developed any command yet

I don't know what you are talking about.

[BennyTheJetRodriguez]

Originally Posted by AMarshal2

I feel like it's easier to develop fastball command than it is to develop a plus-plus change-up. I'm not really interested in debating it though. I'm just giving my opinion with as little bias as I can.

Edwar Ramirez dissagrees.

[ziggyosk41]

Originally Posted by BennyTheJetRodriguez

Edwar Ramirez dissagrees.

Of course he does, he has a great Change, but for most pitchers it's the last pitch they develop if at all. and many pitchers who have great stuff like Hughes show flashes of having a plus change but can never throw it consistantly. Only time will tell if Hughes can or not.

[ThunderFan]

Baltimore has a way of making every boston player look like a hall of famer. Lets see what he does against good hitting teams.

[BennyTheJetRodriguez]

Originally Posted by ziggyosk41

Of course he does, he has a great Change, but for most pitchers it's the last pitch they develop if at all. and many pitchers who have great stuff like Hughes show flashes of having a plus change but can never throw it consistantly. Only time will tell if Hughes can or not.

The point is he didn't always have the great changeup. He taught it to himself in the indy league. Fastball command however he hasn't gotten a grip on even with the help of some of the best pitching coaches in baseball. Throwing a changeup is a skill, having command of pitches is a talent.