When did Bonds become "may be the greatest player that ever played the game"?

[Carissa]

Don't shoot me for asking. It's no secret that I dislike the guy but when did he start getting all this attention that he may be the greatest that ever played? Was he thought of this way before 2001? Or just since?

Career hitting stats:

 Year   Team   G   AB   R   H   2B   3B   HR   RBI   BB   SO   SB   CS   OBP   SLG   AVG   

 1986   PIT   113   413   72   92   26   3   16   48   65   102   36   7   .330   .416   .223   

 1987   PIT   150   551   99   144   34   9   25   59   54   88   32   10   .329   .492   .261   

 1988   PIT   144   538   97   152   30   5   24   58   72   82   17   11   .368   .491   .283   

 1989   PIT   159   580   96   144   34   6   19   58   93   93   32   10   .351   .426   .248   

 1990   PIT   151   519   104   156   32   3   33   114   93   83   52   13   .406   .565   .301   

 1991   PIT   153   510   95   149   28   5   25   116   107   73   43   13   .410   .514   .292   

 1992   PIT   140   473   109   147   36   5   34   103   127   69   39   8   .456   .624   .311   

 1993   SF   159   539   129   181   38   4   46   123   126   79   29   12   .458   .677   .336   

 1994   SF   112   391   89   122   18   1   37   81   74   43   29   9   .426   .647   .312   

 1995   SF   144   506   109   149   30   7   33   104   120   83   31   10   .431   .577   .294   

 1996   SF   158   517   122   159   27   3   42   129   151   76   40   7   .461   .615   .308   

 1997   SF   159   532   123   155   26   5   40   101   145   87   37   8   .446   .585   .291   

 1998   SF   156   552   120   167   44   7   37   122   130   92   28   12   .438   .609   .303   

 1999   SF   102   355   91   93   20   2   34   83   73   62   15   2   .389   .617   .262   

 2000   SF   143   480   129   147   28   4   49   106   117   77   11   3   .440   .688   .306   

 2001   SF   153   476   129   156   32   2   73   137   177   93   13   3   .515   .863   .328   

 2002   SF   143   403   117   149   31   2   46   110   198   47   9   2   .582   .799   .370   

 TOTAL:     2439   8335   1830   2462   514   73   613   1652   1922   1329   493   140   .428   .595   .295  

[DJeter1287]

I don't know and I agree..I'm not a large Barry Bonds fan myself.

[deranged2005]

2001 and on. Why?

A) The media was all over him, dug up his stats, and said how great he was.

B) People read it, and agreed. Some looked at stats and said "O yeah, he's the greatest ever".

C) He's getting more attention than he ever has, and that helps.

Ruth is still the best ever.

[KLJ]

Originally posted by Carissa
Don't shoot me for asking. It's no secret that I dislike the guy but when did he start getting all this attention that he may be the greatest that ever played?

after he started juicing

[Slippery Elm]

He became the greatest ever when the idiots at FOX thought they coukl pump up their ratings.

[DJeter1287]

Originally posted by deranged2005

Ruth is still the best ever.

YEP!! The Babe is the best!

[Jersey Yankee]

Most likely after his frightening '01 numbers:

Stats:

---

Single-Season Slugging %

Rank Player  Slugging % Year Bats

1. Barry Bonds .8635 2001 L

2. Babe Ruth   .8472 1920 L

3. Babe Ruth   .8463 1921 L

4. Babe Ruth   .7722 1927 L

5. Lou Gehrig  .7654 1927 L

6. Babe Ruth   .7644 1923 L



Single-Season OBP

Rank Player  On-base % Year Bats

1. Ted Williams   .5528 1941 L

2. John McGraw    .5475 1899 L

3. Babe Ruth      .5445 1923 L

4. Babe Ruth      .5319 1920 L

5. Ted Williams   .5256 1957 L

6. Billy Hamilton .5228 1894 L

7. Babe Ruth      .5156 1926 L

8. Barry Bonds    .5151 2001 L



Single-Season OPS

Rank Player  OPS Year Bats[/b]

1. Babe Ruth       1.3791 1920 L

2. Barry Bonds     1.3785 2001 L

3. Babe Ruth       1.3586 1921 L

4. Babe Ruth       1.3089 1923 L

5. Ted Williams    1.2874 1941 L

6. Babe Ruth       1.2582 1927 L

7. Ted Williams    1.2566 1957 L

8. Babe Ruth       1.2530 1926 L

9. Babe Ruth       1.2517 1924 L

10. Rogers Hornsby 1.2449 1925 R



Single-Season XBH

Rank Player  Extra-Base Hits Year Bats

1. Babe Ruth   119 1921 L

2. Lou Gehrig  117 1927 L

3. Barry Bonds 107 2001 L

   Chuck Klein 107 1930 L

---

[Soriambi]

Here's why (IMHO) Carissa:

4 MVP Awards (5 after this year)
Runner-up MVP twice
8 Gold Gloves
6 Time OBP Leader
7 Time OPS Leader

Most Importantly, a Career .295 hitter with 613 Homeruns and 1652 RBI. Also, throw in all of those awards AND 493 SB and you have one of the best players ever. I'm not a Bonds fan by any stretch of the imagination, but look at the awards, look at the stats...he's right up there.

[Carissa]

Stats and awards aside, Soriambi, I guess what I'm asking is that prior to 2001 did anyone, experts, sportscasters, newspaper writers, etc., think that he was one of the greatest players ever? Or was it just after the 2001 season that this proclamation came to be?

[Soriambi]

Originally posted by Carissa
Stats and awards aside, Soriambi, I guess what I'm asking is that prior to 2001 did anyone, experts, sportscasters, newspaper writers, etc., think that he was one of the greatest players ever? Or was it just after the 2001 season that this proclamation came to be?

Sorry, Carissa, seems I misunderstood the Question. Anyways, sometimes it takes a great year like that for people to look at the guy and say "Hey, look at those stats!!!" So yeah, prior to 01' he wasn't thought of at that level, I would say.

[Jersey Yankee]

Originally posted by Carissa
Stats and awards aside, Soriambi, I guess what I'm asking is that prior to 2001 did anyone, experts, sportscasters, newspaper writers, etc., think that he was one of the greatest players ever? Or was it just after the 2001 season that this proclamation came to be?

I happen to think it was stats-related. I think that Rickey knocked Babe off the career walks in '01 or '02, but in sheer power numbers, when you knock off Babe, Gehrig and others, that's a very big power number, so in addition to his 73 jacks in '01, then the highest OBP this season, beating Teddy Ballgame, that kind of made the comparison more likely.

Whether or not he actually is would be another endless debate (just like Mantle vs Mays), but I think that his gaudy '01/'02 stats made the debate more commonplace.

[SanFrANSKY]

Originally posted by Carissa
I guess what I'm asking is that prior to 2001 did anyone, experts, sportscasters, newspaper writers, etc., think that he was one of the greatest players ever? Or was it just after the 2001 season that this proclamation came to be?

I read articles which proclaimed him the greatest player of the 1990s, one of the best of the modern era, and a sure-fire HOF'r. All that was before 2001.

I'm a fan, and while I still think the Babe gets the edge, there is more of an argument to be made for Barry now than ever before.

[Nome]

Look, we all know the history. When Barry's father played for the Yankees and Barry and a few other players sons were in the clubhouse, the then manager, Billy Martin kicked the boys out.

From then on Barry expressed a hatred for the Yankees and said he would never play for them.

Why can't (Charissa, you know I respect you, don't take this personal) Yankee fans learn to acknowledge the feats and greatness of other teams players. We all seem to be wrapped up in the "If he is a Yankee he is God, if he is not a Yankee he sucks".

Bonds is truly a HOF on the first ballot (he should be a unamous (bad spelling) pick. He truly is one of the greats. Better than Joe D, The Mick and Mays. He dominates the game like no other player since the Babe

Andy
Andy

[matt27]

Originally posted by KLJ

after he started juicing

good answer.

[Ansky39]

Originally posted by SanFrANSKY


I read articles which proclaimed him the greatest player of the 1990s, one of the best of the modern era, and a sure-fire HOF'r. All that was before 2001.

I'm a fan, and while I still think the Babe gets the edge, there is more of an argument to be made for Barry now than ever before.

wow, sanfran, i remember the sports rag consensus that griff was player of the 90's and remember arguing daily w/ all these fans that merely regurgitated sports writer bs, that bonds definitely was the better player... i dunno if i can find my posts still but they were like 10 pages long detailing how bonds was the best of his generation and certainly better than griff in the 90's..

i don't get into this best ever nonsense, means nothing to me comparing players of different eras, but for this generation, bonds has certainly outporduced al of his peers...

[Ansky39]

Originally posted by Carissa
Stats and awards aside, Soriambi, I guess what I'm asking is that prior to 2001 did anyone, experts, sportscasters, newspaper writers, etc., think that he was one of the greatest players ever? Or was it just after the 2001 season that this proclamation came to be?

in answer to your question carissa, i'd say it was after the departure of mac, ripken and demise of griff... the sports publishers desperate for someone else to sell their rags jumped on the bonds bandwagon head first... imo it's nice to see him get his due as one of the greats, he's been long maligned because he doesn't kis up to the media like griff used to or self promote himslef like cal...

i just wish they'd shy away from this greatest ever talk.. it diminishes the significant accomplishments of prior greats..

[DiMaggio5CF]

Originally posted by KLJ

after he started juicing

Exactly.

People tell me that I don't have proof of that. And it's true, I don't.

But I do have some pieces of information.

I know that Bonds went from one of the top 5 ballplayers each season to one of the top 5 ballplayers of all time. I know that he went from one of the most feared hitters on his team to one of the most feared hitters in the history of the game. I know that he became a legitimate 75-homerun threat after a lifetime of hitting 35-50 homers each season. I know that this change came over the course of a few months. I know that this change happened at age 36. And I know that, in baseball, that just doesn't happen.

I don't have proof. But I do have common sense.

[JfromJersey]

Originally posted by Nome
Look, we all know the history. When Barry's father played for the Yankees and Barry and a few other players sons were in the clubhouse, the then manager, Billy Martin kicked the boys out.

From then on Barry expressed a hatred for the Yankees and said he would never play for them.

Why can't (Charissa, you know I respect you, don't take this personal) Yankee fans learn to acknowledge the feats and greatness of other teams players. We all seem to be wrapped up in the "If he is a Yankee he is God, if he is not a Yankee he sucks".

Bonds is truly a HOF on the first ballot (he should be a unamous (bad spelling) pick. He truly is one of the greats. Better than Joe D, The Mick and Mays. He dominates the game like no other player since the Babe

Andy
Andy

I thought that history you refer to was about Griffey Jr. being thrown out of the locker room in the 80's, not Bonds.
Anyway, nobody in his or her right mind can deny that Bonds is one of the all time great players, that he was a first ballot HOFer prior to 2001, and that since then, he can legitimately be compared to Ruth. As to why this happened to him at an age when most proffesional athletes are in decline, who really knows? We all have our suspicions. More likely than not it's a combination of factors rather than any one single factor that propelled him to such heights. I believe he is juiced (like many other players). Combine that with a new bat, arm pad, relentless work ethic, and the best eyesight in baseball, and maybe it's not that mysterious.

[Carissa]

Originally posted by Nome
Why can't (Charissa, you know I respect you, don't take this personal) Yankee fans learn to acknowledge the feats and greatness of other teams players. We all seem to be wrapped up in the "If he is a Yankee he is God, if he is not a Yankee he sucks".

I admire all that he has done but I was really just trying to find out when this title came to be. If he retired after the 2000 season, would people be declaring him one of the greatest, if not the greatest, ever to play baseball or would he be just another great first ballot HOFer ball player?

[Sixty one]

Griffey is the ballplayer who hates the Yanks because Martin thru out kids from the clubhouse when his father played for the Yanks.
As far as Bonds being the greatest, yes he is one of the greatest but I'll never say he was better than Ruth. It's also no secret that I can't stand him because of his arrogance and the way he treats others!!!&po'd&