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  1. #5326

    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yanksfanintoronto View Post
    So the Reds have roughly $320 Million in a 1B who is not even in the top 5 if barely, an average 2B and a LOOGY. Pathetic.
    Pujols, Votto, Gonzalez? Cabrera being a 3B now puts Votto firmly in that top 2-3 at 1B, and by far the best one in the NL.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...ge=0&players=0

    I'd also put Phillips in that good 5-10 range.

  2. #5327
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    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yanksfanintoronto View Post
    So the Reds have roughly $320 Million in a 1B who is not even in the top 5 if barely, an average 2B and a LOOGY. Pathetic.
    What are you basing this hyperbole on? Votto was 4th in OPS last year among 1Bmen and was 1st in 2010 when he won the NL MVP. He's better than our overpaid guy at 1st.

  3. #5328
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    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by swityak11 View Post
    Pujols, Votto, Gonzalez? Cabrera being a 3B now puts Votto firmly in that top 2-3 at 1B, and by far the best one in the NL.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...ge=0&players=0

    I'd also put Phillips in that good 5-10 range.
    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    What are you basing this hyperbole on? Votto was 4th in OPS last year among 1Bmen and was 1st in 2010 when he won the NL MVP. He's better than our overpaid guy at 1st.

    As I said, Votto would barely make my top 5. I would pick Pujols, Cabrera (Yea don't care about the switch this year...he is a 1B), Gonzalez, Fielder and Votto. His contract is ridiculously stupid for many reasons already discussed. As far as our overpaid guy @ 1B....There is a 1B now in Cincy with a worst contract.

    Either way, whether you agree or disagree, are you guys really telling me that the Reds are smart in investing roughly $320 Million in those 3 players?
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  4. #5329

    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    You can't just put Cabrera as a first-basemen just because it suits you. It doesn't work like that.

  5. #5330
    Yanksfanintoronto Yanksfanintoronto's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax Teller View Post
    You can't just put Cabrera as a first-basemen just because it suits you. It doesn't work like that.
    It does in my world.....either way as I said....whether you agree or disagree....don't hijack the argument by diverting from my original point....do you guys think it was wise for the Reds to invest that much in those 3 players? The world would be in an uproar if the Yankees invested that much in any 3 players....do you agree or disagree with the Reds?

    EDIT: Even if you do think he is in the top 5, he's been given top 2-3 like money which he is not worth....and the 10 years will be a death knell in a league without a DH
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  6. #5331
    Off To Never Never Land Mr.Muhozi's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    Poor thing

    40 pitchers, ever, have an ERA+ of 130 or higher for their career. 15 have 140 or higher. 3 guys have 150 or higher - one is right at 150, the second place guy is at 154, and Mariano Rivera is at 205.

  7. #5332
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    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    Votto is not a top five 1b? I don't understand this silliness.
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  8. #5333

    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yanksfanintoronto View Post
    It does in my world.....either way as I said....whether you agree or disagree....don't hijack the argument by diverting from my original point....do you guys think it was wise for the Reds to invest that much in those 3 players? The world would be in an uproar if the Yankees invested that much in any 3 players....do you agree or disagree with the Reds?

    EDIT: Even if you do think he is in the top 5, he's been given top 2-3 like money which he is not worth....and the 10 years will be a death knell in a league without a DH
    In my world, I'm a well hung billionaire. That still doesn't make it a reality.

  9. #5334
    Off To Never Never Land Mr.Muhozi's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax Teller View Post
    In my world, I'm a well hung billionaire. That still doesn't make it a reality.
    So you're saying you're not hung?
    40 pitchers, ever, have an ERA+ of 130 or higher for their career. 15 have 140 or higher. 3 guys have 150 or higher - one is right at 150, the second place guy is at 154, and Mariano Rivera is at 205.

  10. #5335
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    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yanksfanintoronto View Post
    As I said, Votto would barely make my top 5. I would pick Pujols, Cabrera (Yea don't care about the switch this year...he is a 1B), Gonzalez, Fielder and Votto. His contract is ridiculously stupid for many reasons already discussed. As far as our overpaid guy @ 1B....There is a 1B now in Cincy with a worst contract.

    Either way, whether you agree or disagree, are you guys really telling me that the Reds are smart in investing roughly $320 Million in those 3 players?
    First, Joey Votto is an incredible player. There's no question about it - now that Fielder and Pujols have moved to the American League, Votto is far and away the best first baseman in the NL.

    That said, giving a guy with two years left on his existing contract an additional 10 year extension is absolutely insane and I'll let this long post tell you why. Food for thought: can you imagine a world where Votto would have said "no thanks" to a big-money 6-year extension on top of his 2 remaining seasons?

    Let me give you the best analogous example in the history of the world: Alex Rodriguez. I'm not talking about this last 10-year, $275mm+ deal. I'm talking about the first contract: 10 years, $252 million.

    ARod was pretty much as young as you can possibly be and yet still be a free agent on the open market. Baseball was completely booming and the country's economy was still in beast mode. He was coming off of the best start of a career in the history of the world. Let's not forget that in his first full season, 1996, when he was younger than eventual ROY Derek Jeter, ARod should have won the MVP. In subsequent seasons ARod proved that he was the best player in the game, hitting in total .316/.420/.606 with 189 HR and 133 SB before he even reached free agency after his age 24 season. He also likely deserved the MVP in 2000, the year before he hit free agency. The fact that he was a gold-glove type shortstop increased his already insane value dramatically.

    The Rangers signed him to what seemed an absurd contract: 10 years, $252 million. They even gave him an out-clause after 7 years. However, as large and long as the contract was, if any player were ever going to be worth a lot of money over a very long time it was Alex Rodriguez. I mean, he was possibly the youngest proven player to ever hit the free agency market and he was a .300 hitting shortstop who had hit 40 HR in 3 consecutive years.

    And ARod proved that the contract was worth it... for the first 7 years. They were amazing, dominant seasons. He then opted out and signed a new deal, and anyone would say that since then he has not lived up to his enormous contact.

    It's 2012 right now. These last 5 years - which would be years 8-12 from that initial contract - have been far less than expected from a guy who is paid to be the best in the game. He has hit .283/.374/.519 without the capacity to play even 140 games per season. Only once during these years has ARod eclipsed 30 home runs in a season, and his defense and speed are nowhere near what they were when he signed his first big contract.

    Let's compare Votto with ARod. Votto is already 28 years old, making him 4 years older than ARod was when he signed his contract. Votto is a first baseman as opposed to a gold-glove type shortstop. He's very good with the bat (.312/.404/.549) but nowhere near as good as ARod was when he signed his deal. Votto has only once in his entire career ever hit 30 home runs - a total we think of as low for an elite guy - and he has never hit more than 37. He also has extremely limited speed, which means his BABIP will likely descend faster as he gets older. And yet somehow Votto was gifted with a longer contract than even ARod was ever given (when you add in the TWO YEARS before an extension).

    I am well aware that inflation (especially baseball-inflation) means that Votto's annual contract value is far less expensive than ARod's was at the time. It doesn't change the fact that giving a contract this absurdly long to an older, lesser player is nothing short of obscenely stupid.

    ARod has been lucky (or gifted) enough not to get hurt or have his performance decline horrendously and rapidly. Let's look at what used to be the longest contract in MLB history as another example. Todd Helton (a gold-glove type first baseman) also had about 2 full years left on his contract when the Rockies gave him a 9 year extension in 2001. It seemed to make sense at that point in time - as a 26 year old, he had hit .372/.463/.698 (leading the NL in all 3 categories) with 42 HR, 59 doubles and 147 RBI in 2000. Sure, he was aided by Coors Field, but those stats were insane. Even with a significant drop off, surely Helton would be a great player long-term... right?

    At first his deal seemed great. Then he hit 30 years old, and suddenly he went from being an elite hitter to one who could only total 20 HR. His power was gone. After 2005, he never even hit 20 HR again.

    Can the Reds not see this happening to their guy, too? Votto now is a year older than Helton was when he signed his big extension and yet he was actually given an additional year on his contract.

  11. #5336
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    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    Seems like the year of the extension. Phillips got 6/$72.5M, Kinsler got 5/$75M with an option for a 6th year

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/0...n-kinsler.html
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  12. #5337
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    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yanksfanintoronto View Post
    It does in my world.....either way as I said....whether you agree or disagree....don't hijack the argument by diverting from my original point....do you guys think it was wise for the Reds to invest that much in those 3 players? The world would be in an uproar if the Yankees invested that much in any 3 players....do you agree or disagree with the Reds?

    EDIT: Even if you do think he is in the top 5, he's been given top 2-3 like money which he is not worth....and the 10 years will be a death knell in a league without a DH
    My Top 5 first basemen: Dylan, Dylan, Dylan, Dylan and Dylan.

    Votto's deal is ridiculous, however he is either the second or third best 1B in baseball.

  13. #5338

    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    Ken Rosenthal@Ken_Rosenthal Sources: #Indians to sign Johnny Damon.

  14. #5339
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    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax Teller View Post
    Ken Rosenthal@Ken_Rosenthal Sources: #Indians to sign Johnny Damon.
    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/0...nny-damon.html
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  15. #5340
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    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    First, Joey Votto is an incredible player. There's no question about it - now that Fielder and Pujols have moved to the American League, Votto is far and away the best first baseman in the NL.

    That said, giving a guy with two years left on his existing contract an additional 10 year extension is absolutely insane and I'll let this long post tell you why. Food for thought: can you imagine a world where Votto would have said "no thanks" to a big-money 6-year extension on top of his 2 remaining seasons?

    Let me give you the best analogous example in the history of the world: Alex Rodriguez. I'm not talking about this last 10-year, $275mm+ deal. I'm talking about the first contract: 10 years, $252 million.

    ARod was pretty much as young as you can possibly be and yet still be a free agent on the open market. Baseball was completely booming and the country's economy was still in beast mode. He was coming off of the best start of a career in the history of the world. Let's not forget that in his first full season, 1996, when he was younger than eventual ROY Derek Jeter, ARod should have won the MVP. In subsequent seasons ARod proved that he was the best player in the game, hitting in total .316/.420/.606 with 189 HR and 133 SB before he even reached free agency after his age 24 season. He also likely deserved the MVP in 2000, the year before he hit free agency. The fact that he was a gold-glove type shortstop increased his already insane value dramatically.

    The Rangers signed him to what seemed an absurd contract: 10 years, $252 million. They even gave him an out-clause after 7 years. However, as large and long as the contract was, if any player were ever going to be worth a lot of money over a very long time it was Alex Rodriguez. I mean, he was possibly the youngest proven player to ever hit the free agency market and he was a .300 hitting shortstop who had hit 40 HR in 3 consecutive years.

    And ARod proved that the contract was worth it... for the first 7 years. They were amazing, dominant seasons. He then opted out and signed a new deal, and anyone would say that since then he has not lived up to his enormous contact.

    It's 2012 right now. These last 5 years - which would be years 8-12 from that initial contract - have been far less than expected from a guy who is paid to be the best in the game. He has hit .283/.374/.519 without the capacity to play even 140 games per season. Only once during these years has ARod eclipsed 30 home runs in a season, and his defense and speed are nowhere near what they were when he signed his first big contract.

    Let's compare Votto with ARod. Votto is already 28 years old, making him 4 years older than ARod was when he signed his contract. Votto is a first baseman as opposed to a gold-glove type shortstop. He's very good with the bat (.312/.404/.549) but nowhere near as good as ARod was when he signed his deal. Votto has only once in his entire career ever hit 30 home runs - a total we think of as low for an elite guy - and he has never hit more than 37. He also has extremely limited speed, which means his BABIP will likely descend faster as he gets older. And yet somehow Votto was gifted with a longer contract than even ARod was ever given (when you add in the TWO YEARS before an extension).

    I am well aware that inflation (especially baseball-inflation) means that Votto's annual contract value is far less expensive than ARod's was at the time. It doesn't change the fact that giving a contract this absurdly long to an older, lesser player is nothing short of obscenely stupid.

    ARod has been lucky (or gifted) enough not to get hurt or have his performance decline horrendously and rapidly. Let's look at what used to be the longest contract in MLB history as another example. Todd Helton (a gold-glove type first baseman) also had about 2 full years left on his contract when the Rockies gave him a 9 year extension in 2001. It seemed to make sense at that point in time - as a 26 year old, he had hit .372/.463/.698 (leading the NL in all 3 categories) with 42 HR, 59 doubles and 147 RBI in 2000. Sure, he was aided by Coors Field, but those stats were insane. Even with a significant drop off, surely Helton would be a great player long-term... right?

    At first his deal seemed great. Then he hit 30 years old, and suddenly he went from being an elite hitter to one who could only total 20 HR. His power was gone. After 2005, he never even hit 20 HR again.

    Can the Reds not see this happening to their guy, too? Votto now is a year older than Helton was when he signed his big extension and yet he was actually given an additional year on his contract.
    Thanks for the detailed response and taking the time to reply with such great perspective. And your right when you say that Votto might be the best first baseman in the NL. My issue was more with his contract and the length of it. Even with baseball inflation, that is a ridiculously high contract for a first baseman who has had some medical issues (Depression) in the past. I hope he has put that behind him and I understand that the reason he was going through some of it was also due to his father's passing away. Plus, I always feel like these long contracts may take away the motivation or drive to be at the very top of their game. There is no way for me to say that such is the case with A-Rod or Todd Helton but you have to take that human element into account when handing out long term deals.

    I am not against locking up your franchise player for a while...would be hypocritical as a Yankees fan, but I think a 5-7 year deal always makes more sense in keeping your franchise financially healthy. And that applies to whether you are the Yanks/Sox or the Reds/Brewers.
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  16. #5341
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    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-bi...020037455.html
    Jonathan Broxton becomes first pitcher in 46 years to hit two batters to end a game

    Jonathan Broxton's errant pitch and Jonny Gomes' ribcage made history on Wednesday.
    In what was literally the wildest ending to a baseball game in almost 50 years, the Kansas City closer hit Oakland rookie Yoenis Cespedes to load the bases in the bottom of the 12th inning. Broxton then plunked Gomes just a few moments later for a walkoff hit-by-pitch, a blown save and a 5-4 A's victory at Oakland Coliseum. It was the first time in 46 years that a game ended with two straight batters being hit with pitches.
    "It started out good but I just didn't have it,'' said Broxton, who began the inning with a strikeout before getting into trouble with two traditional walks. ''One was a sinker and one was a four-seam fastball.''

  17. #5342
    Don't call it a comeback False1's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Muhozi View Post
    Poor thing

    Saw this in the O's thread. Dying to know if this is an actual graphic from a TV broadcast, or just cleverly mocked to look that way. If it's the former, I say bravo!!!

  18. #5343
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    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    First, Joey Votto is an incredible player. There's no question about it - now that Fielder and Pujols have moved to the American League, Votto is far and away the best first baseman in the NL.

    That said, giving a guy with two years left on his existing contract an additional 10 year extension is absolutely insane and I'll let this long post tell you why. Food for thought: can you imagine a world where Votto would have said "no thanks" to a big-money 6-year extension on top of his 2 remaining seasons?

    Let me give you the best analogous example in the history of the world: Alex Rodriguez. I'm not talking about this last 10-year, $275mm+ deal. I'm talking about the first contract: 10 years, $252 million.

    ARod was pretty much as young as you can possibly be and yet still be a free agent on the open market. Baseball was completely booming and the country's economy was still in beast mode. He was coming off of the best start of a career in the history of the world. Let's not forget that in his first full season, 1996, when he was younger than eventual ROY Derek Jeter, ARod should have won the MVP. In subsequent seasons ARod proved that he was the best player in the game, hitting in total .316/.420/.606 with 189 HR and 133 SB before he even reached free agency after his age 24 season. He also likely deserved the MVP in 2000, the year before he hit free agency. The fact that he was a gold-glove type shortstop increased his already insane value dramatically.

    The Rangers signed him to what seemed an absurd contract: 10 years, $252 million. They even gave him an out-clause after 7 years. However, as large and long as the contract was, if any player were ever going to be worth a lot of money over a very long time it was Alex Rodriguez. I mean, he was possibly the youngest proven player to ever hit the free agency market and he was a .300 hitting shortstop who had hit 40 HR in 3 consecutive years.

    And ARod proved that the contract was worth it... for the first 7 years. They were amazing, dominant seasons. He then opted out and signed a new deal, and anyone would say that since then he has not lived up to his enormous contact.

    It's 2012 right now. These last 5 years - which would be years 8-12 from that initial contract - have been far less than expected from a guy who is paid to be the best in the game. He has hit .283/.374/.519 without the capacity to play even 140 games per season. Only once during these years has ARod eclipsed 30 home runs in a season, and his defense and speed are nowhere near what they were when he signed his first big contract.

    Let's compare Votto with ARod. Votto is already 28 years old, making him 4 years older than ARod was when he signed his contract. Votto is a first baseman as opposed to a gold-glove type shortstop. He's very good with the bat (.312/.404/.549) but nowhere near as good as ARod was when he signed his deal. Votto has only once in his entire career ever hit 30 home runs - a total we think of as low for an elite guy - and he has never hit more than 37. He also has extremely limited speed, which means his BABIP will likely descend faster as he gets older. And yet somehow Votto was gifted with a longer contract than even ARod was ever given (when you add in the TWO YEARS before an extension).

    I am well aware that inflation (especially baseball-inflation) means that Votto's annual contract value is far less expensive than ARod's was at the time. It doesn't change the fact that giving a contract this absurdly long to an older, lesser player is nothing short of obscenely stupid.

    ARod has been lucky (or gifted) enough not to get hurt or have his performance decline horrendously and rapidly. Let's look at what used to be the longest contract in MLB history as another example. Todd Helton (a gold-glove type first baseman) also had about 2 full years left on his contract when the Rockies gave him a 9 year extension in 2001. It seemed to make sense at that point in time - as a 26 year old, he had hit .372/.463/.698 (leading the NL in all 3 categories) with 42 HR, 59 doubles and 147 RBI in 2000. Sure, he was aided by Coors Field, but those stats were insane. Even with a significant drop off, surely Helton would be a great player long-term... right?

    At first his deal seemed great. Then he hit 30 years old, and suddenly he went from being an elite hitter to one who could only total 20 HR. His power was gone. After 2005, he never even hit 20 HR again.

    Can the Reds not see this happening to their guy, too? Votto now is a year older than Helton was when he signed his big extension and yet he was actually given an additional year on his contract.
    I agree with your comments on age and positional value, but thought it was worth noting that relative to the rest of the league your "nowhere near as good with the bat" comment is definitely debatable.
    • Votto's last 3 years of OPS+ = 164
    • The year before A-Rod signed with Texas, he had just produced what was his career best at the time OPS+ of 162, with a 144 OPS+ for the three years prior to signing his deal
    • Although A-Rod had MONSTER years in '05 and '07 with the Yankees, he still has never produced a 3 year stretch of OPS+ greater than 161 ('05 - '07).
    • Votto's current peak OPS+ of 171 in 2010 is comparable to A-Rod's peak OPS+ of 176 in '07

    I thought I'd see a bit more of a spread when comparing wRC+ given A-Rod's greater propensity to steal bases, but career peak only gave A-Rod a slight edge and overall Votto's career wRC+ is higher than A-Rod's.

    If you want to talk WAR, it's no contest in terms of peak value given defense. Votto's exceptional '10 campaign produced 7.3 WAR, a figure that A-Rod has bested 8 times (with a peak of 10.0 WAR), most recently in '07.

    I agree that Votto's deal was poorly negotiated from the Reds' standpoint (too many years and too much money), and would also agree that the deal A-Rod signed with Texas would probably be the more justifiable of the two without the benefit of seeing what actually transpires, but would challenge your comment that Votto is "very good with the bat... but nowhere near as good as ARod was when he signed his deal." I think that is inaccurate.

  19. #5344

    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Saw this in the O's thread. Dying to know if this is an actual graphic from a TV broadcast, or just cleverly mocked to look that way. If it's the former, I say bravo!!!
    reminds me of this.

  20. #5345
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    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Saw this in the O's thread. Dying to know if this is an actual graphic from a TV broadcast, or just cleverly mocked to look that way. If it's the former, I say bravo!!!
    The next time I watch an O's game, I'll have to make a point of looking at the 2012 graphic of Andino that they put up on the TV. I don't know if they use same ones you see on the Jumbotron. Either way, I'll never be able to look at it again without cracking up.
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  21. #5346

    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Saw this in the O's thread. Dying to know if this is an actual graphic from a TV broadcast, or just cleverly mocked to look that way. If it's the former, I say bravo!!!
    They showed this during the game on YES. Kay brought it up.
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  22. #5347
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    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...s_mlb&c_id=mlb
    CHICAGO -- The Tigers brought their lineup to U.S. Cellular Field on Friday ready to take their swings at the fences. Three batters into the White Sox home opener, they realized they were swinging a little closer than usual.

    Miguel Cabrera stepped to the plate with two outs in the top of the first inning and immediately pointed to the batter's box, arguing that it didn't extend far enough back. As it turned out, he was right. Crew chief Gary Cederstrom confirmed that the box was drawn too far forward and stopped the game for the grounds crew to rechalk the lines.

    The box appeared to be the right dimensions, but it was centered too far forward. Neither Austin Jackson nor Brennan Boesch noticed it in their at-bats before Cabrera came up, but either Cabrera or someone in the Tigers' dugout did.

  23. #5348

    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    Harang K'ed 9 in a row.
    Don't tease me, you know what I do for a living.

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    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-bi...023412304.html
    Before Friday, Boston Red Sox catcher Kelly Shoppach had gone 464 games without attempting to steal a base a length of time that qualified for an active MLB record and dated all the way back to the 31-year-old's big league debut in 2005.
    Of course, once you see this highlight of Shoppach's first career steal which took place during a 12-2 win over Tampa Bay in Boston's home opener his reluctance to take to the basepaths becomes a lot easier to understand.
    Watch as Shoppach somehow manages a feet-first slide into second base that ends with him diving head-first into the bag. (Really, you have to see it to believe it.)
    Video at the link posted.

  25. #5350

    Re: Interesting Baseball News Items That Do Not Warrant Their Own Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldee5 View Post
    Video at the link posted.
    That was preposterous. If he is thinking about stealing any more bases some sliding practice may be in order.
    I can't complain but sometimes I still do. - Joe Walsh

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