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  1. #1

    Posada's 2007 Option

    Is it possible that if the Yanks decided to bring in someone like Bengi Molina and limit Posada to less than 60 games catching that the Players Association could file a grievance against the Yanks charging that its obvious that the Yanks limited his games behind the plate solely for the purpose of preventing his 12 mill 2007 option from kicking in? Curious about that.

  2. #2

    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    I am sure they could, and probably would. If Jorge continues his downword trend at the plate (the only plus he ever had as far as I am concerned), I can taste the vomit in the back of my throat already when I think about him making $12mil next year

  3. #3
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    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    See:
    http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=91748 for some great discussion of this issue.

  4. #4
    Released Outright keithf1's Avatar
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    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    Quote Originally Posted by freebubba
    I am sure they could, and probably would. If Jorge continues his downword trend at the plate (the only plus he ever had as far as I am concerned), I can taste the vomit in the back of my throat already when I think about him making $12mil next year
    I taste mine right now.

  5. #5
    MELK shcabot's Avatar
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    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    Poor Jorge.
    A Modern Day Murderers Row...sort of

  6. #6

    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    I hope to see him back in 2007, but for 12 million, uhh that makes you want to think about it. It would be different with him not behind the plate.
    2006, The Year of the 27th Championship
    Damon,Jeter,A-Rod,Sheff,Giambi,Matsui,Posada,Williams, and Cano......This has to be the year

  7. #7

    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    Quote Originally Posted by Posada_20
    Is it possible that if the Yanks decided to bring in someone like Bengi Molina and limit Posada to less than 60 games catching that the Players Association could file a grievance against the Yanks charging that its obvious that the Yanks limited his games behind the plate solely for the purpose of preventing his 12 mill 2007 option from kicking in? Curious about that.
    If that happened, I think it's likely there would be a grievance. But unless there's specific language in the contract that they can't switch his position, winning a grievance could be a tough fight. Jorge's been declining. It's not unreasonable to think he a) either needs more rest on the bench or b) at least needs more rest out from behind the plate as a DH. I think the yanks would have a pretty strong argument that making a move like that is simply done in the best interests of the team, not something designed specifically to block Jorge's option. On the other hand, 60 games is so few, that it might be a tough sell for the yanks to convince someone he really wasn't suited to play even that many.

  8. #8

    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    Contracts don't exist in a 1 year bubble. If the option kicks in, it's a 6 year, $63M deal. That's 10.5M a year instead of the $10.2 it would have been if the option didn't kick in.

    More than a potential grievance, what you have to think about here is your integrity as a ball club and how future players perceive said integrity. Playing time options are based on a player's ability to stay healthy. When you start screwing with that and the player has no physical problems, you open the door to much bigger problems than simply a grievance with that player, but problems with every player you negotiate with who remembers how you treated Posada.

    BTW, Molina has serious problems staying healthy for a whole season. If he gets signed, Posada is quite likely to appear in the games he needs anyway.

  9. #9
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    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    Oh stop it with the grievance stuff. This has happened plenty of the times before with other teams, and the reality is that the team can reason that they want to improve the defense because they are disappointed with Jorge's defense (which has some factual backing.

    That being said, I dont want Molina

  10. #10
    Released Outright ryanthe13th's Avatar
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    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    Bringing in Molina would defeat the purpose of not picking up Jorge's option. The only thing Molina does significantly better than Jorge is swing a better bat.

  11. #11

    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    Quote Originally Posted by ryanthe13th
    Bringing in Molina would defeat the purpose of not picking up Jorge's option. The only thing Molina does significantly better than Jorge is swing a better bat.
    I would say he doesn't even do that. Posada actually had a better EQA than Molina last year, .272 to .268. In addition, Molina padded his overall numbers with some limited time at DH in which he absolutely tore the cover off the ball. His stats at catcher were actually less impressive. Finally, Molina got hurt once again and ended up with about 100 fewer plate appearences.

  12. #12
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    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    Quote Originally Posted by BJG
    Contracts don't exist in a 1 year bubble. If the option kicks in, it's a 6 year, $63M deal. That's 10.5M a year instead of the $10.2 it would have been if the option didn't kick in.

    More than a potential grievance, what you have to think about here is your integrity as a ball club and how future players perceive said integrity. Playing time options are based on a player's ability to stay healthy. When you start screwing with that and the player has no physical problems, you open the door to much bigger problems than simply a grievance with that player, but problems with every player you negotiate with who remembers how you treated Posada.

    BTW, Molina has serious problems staying healthy for a whole season. If he gets signed, Posada is quite likely to appear in the games he needs anyway.
    Excellent post. I agree that a grievance isn't really the issue. Posada shouldn't catch 130+ games a season any more, but 60?? There is no way Torre would do that, with or without Molina in the picture. If the deal were frontloaded instead of backloaded, his 2007 option wouldn't even be an issue. I'm more worried about Giambi in 2008 for $21 mil. than I am about Posada in 2007 for $12 mil., then again, the Yankees chose to backload both deals.....the consequence of which can be declined production in the latter years of the deal. Posada is one of the good guys, anyways.....it isn't an issue of behavior problems.... substance abuse, etc. Both Posada and the Yankees will honor the terms of his contract. 2007 will be his 10th year as the Yankees starting C.....the only worry should be about grooming a replacement. There is very little for C in the Yankees minor league system, so the backup C for 2007 should be someone who could take over the job in 2008..... someone Posada could help ease into the job, as Girardi helped him.
    Stop trading our prospects.

  13. #13
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    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    Quote Originally Posted by Posada_20
    Is it possible that if the Yanks decided to bring in someone like Bengi Molina and limit Posada to less than 60 games catching that the Players Association could file a grievance against the Yanks charging that its obvious that the Yanks limited his games behind the plate solely for the purpose of preventing his 12 mill 2007 option from kicking in? Curious about that.
    anything's possible... but i hope it doesn't happen. hate bengie molina; love, love, love, LOOOOOVE posada!!!!
    [font=Tahoma][size=2][color=Navy]"Go get Kevin Brown... whatever other malcontent you want and foolishly expect people to buy it. You're not a leader. You just let one go." -[/color][/size][/font][font=Tahoma][color=Navy]directed @ Steinbrenner on losing Pettitte to Houston.[/color][/font][font=Tahoma][size=2][color=black][/color][/size][/font]

  14. #14
    Yankee Fan since May 9,1962 jimmyclark's Avatar
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    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    I don't see the Yankees doing this. Jon Heyman from Newsday has advocated doing this so that is a good reason not to do it. Heyman thought Steve Phillips deserved a lifetime contract for signing Tom Glavine 3 years ago. Posada is declining but still has some value.Molina certainly hit well agaisnt the Yankees but stunk out the joint agaisnt the White Sox.
    $12 million is a lot of money but do you really want to get your clubhouse upset by shafting a long-time Yankee over money? Grit your teeth, play Posada as much as is good for the team (Kelly Stinnett as backup isn't much of an option) and count it as a learning experience. Athletes can get hissy and hysterical over minor slights.

  15. #15

    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyclark
    I don't see the Yankees doing this. Jon Heyman from Newsday has advocated doing this so that is a good reason not to do it. Heyman thought Steve Phillips deserved a lifetime contract for signing Tom Glavine 3 years ago. Posada is declining but still has some value.Molina certainly hit well agaisnt the Yankees but stunk out the joint agaisnt the White Sox.
    $12 million is a lot of money but do you really want to get your clubhouse upset by shafting a long-time Yankee over money? Grit your teeth, play Posada as much as is good for the team (Kelly Stinnett as backup isn't much of an option) and count it as a learning experience. Athletes can get hissy and hysterical over minor slights.
    Yea good post.....I dont see the yanks it eaither, lets just hope Posada goes back the the way he was in 2003.
    2006, The Year of the 27th Championship
    Damon,Jeter,A-Rod,Sheff,Giambi,Matsui,Posada,Williams, and Cano......This has to be the year

  16. #16

    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    I don't care if his option kicks in in 2007 as long as they can somehow find a young guy he can mentor and platoon with... sure wish we had Navarro right about now.

  17. #17

    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    Posada in 2007 will be a disaster but Molina supposedly has been declining defensively, so getting him would be pointless. if only there was a catcher waiting in the wings...

  18. #18

    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    Quote Originally Posted by enterthesandman
    I don't care if his option kicks in in 2007 as long as they can somehow find a young guy he can mentor and platoon with... sure wish we had Navarro right about now.
    This is exactly right. The pain would be eased if we had a viable option after Posada. But we don't, after Posada's contract runs out we will be left out to dry. It is not a good situation. If we somehow trade for or draft a new C, at least we can use Posada's declining years to our advantage. Maybe a minor league IFer can make the transition. Whatever we do, we better do it quick...

  19. #19
    Released Outright JavyVazquezIsSick's Avatar
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    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    Quote Originally Posted by surge511
    This is exactly right. The pain would be eased if we had a viable option after Posada. But we don't, after Posada's contract runs out we will be left out to dry. It is not a good situation. If we somehow trade for or draft a new C, at least we can use Posada's declining years to our advantage. Maybe a minor league IFer can make the transition. Whatever we do, we better do it quick...
    With a team so offensively centered, losing the offense of the catcher won't cripple the team. All the team needs is a solid defensive catcher who calls a good game. Losing Posada's offense isn't that big of a deal considering its rapidly declining and last year Posada was barely above average...

  20. #20
    Released Outright Mattpat11's Avatar
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    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    Quote Originally Posted by enterthesandman
    I don't care if his option kicks in in 2007 as long as they can somehow find a young guy he can mentor and platoon with... sure wish we had Navarro right about now.
    Do we really want Posada mentoring someone?

    "Okay now, first lesson. If there's a runner coming in from third and the cutoff man is throwing you the ball, make sure you're as far away from homeplate as possible. Also, when on the bases, always run when the ball is hit in front of you. Further, when batting, if the umpire calls a ball a strike and you don't agree with the call, the best thing to do is stubbornly refuse to swing at that pitch everytime its thrown. Escpecially in big spots. That'll learn that umpire."

  21. #21
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    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattpat11
    Do we really want Posada mentoring someone?

    "Okay now, first lesson. If there's a runner coming in from third and the cutoff man is throwing you the ball, make sure you're as far away from homeplate as possible. Also, when on the bases, always run when the ball is hit in front of you. Further, when batting, if the umpire calls a ball a strike and you don't agree with the call, the best thing to do is stubbornly refuse to swing at that pitch everytime its thrown. Escpecially in big spots. That'll learn that umpire."
    "...and one more thing. If you come up with a runner on first and less than two outs....hit it directly to second base. It gets them every time, especially if there are runners on 2nd and/or 3rd at the same time."

  22. #22
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    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    Quote Originally Posted by surge511
    This is exactly right. The pain would be eased if we had a viable option after Posada. But we don't, after Posada's contract runs out we will be left out to dry. It is not a good situation. If we somehow trade for or draft a new C, at least we can use Posada's declining years to our advantage. Maybe a minor league IFer can make the transition. Whatever we do, we better do it quick...
    The Yankees are trying that this season with Kyle Anson, a 3rd baseman drafted as a college senior this past June. He has excellent OBP, and really has a good eye. Has a solid arm, and the body type to be a catcher.

    It did not work out with Nate Phillips, drafted in 2004. But Anson may have a realistic shot at converting.

    Hey, Posada was a second baseman at one time in his career, before convertig. But Anson will not be ready for 2-3 years, in any case.

  23. #23
    MELK shcabot's Avatar
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    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    It's too bad we didn't keep Dioner Navarro instead of trading him away. I hope that doesn't come back to bite us.
    A Modern Day Murderers Row...sort of

  24. #24

    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    Quote Originally Posted by JavyVazquezIsSick
    With a team so offensively centered, losing the offense of the catcher won't cripple the team. All the team needs is a solid defensive catcher who calls a good game. Losing Posada's offense isn't that big of a deal considering its rapidly declining and last year Posada was barely above average...
    Catchers hit .253/.313/.387 last year. There's a long, long way between that and Posada's .262/.352/.430. He was 4th among all catchers in EQA.

    You can't just say that the Yankees don't need offense out of the C spot. It's a big part of what allows the offense to separate itself from that of other teams. When you give up on that, you let yourself fall back to the pack.

    I expect a bit of a bounce back from Posada, as I think a good deal of his offensive woes last year stemmed from having to deal with so many new pitchers. It isn't a coincidence that he was horrible in July at the height of the Redding/Franklin/May experiment and started to settle down once Small and Chacon began to pitch regularly, actually putting up a good September.
    Last edited by BJG; 01-20-06 at 12:10 PM.

  25. #25
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    Re: Posada's 2007 Option

    I don't like this option kicking in at all. I'd almost say: do everything in your power to prevent it to Torre / Steinbrenner / Cashman. Posada has lost it in my opinion. He isn't of great value to this team anymore. Molina should be better than Posada nowadays. So if it requires Molina to prevent this 2007 option I'm all for it.
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