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  1. #1

    Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    It seems that so many of the talks by both fans and sportswriters this off season has been overly focused on the Yanks filling the CF position. I, just like everyone else would LOVE to see the Yank's pickup a decent to premier CF...However at the end of the day all we really need is a decent glove. It was the bullpen all last year that persisted in being the serious problem with the Yankees. Can anyone else remember last year how many games there were when the Yanks would be leading by 5 to 6 runs only to see them win the game by 1 run? Or how about all the games where the Yanks held an early lead only to have the bullpen relinquish it? How hard was it to get a reliever to come in during the ALDS that could retire the Angels 1-2-3? I think that somewhere along the lines both us(the fans), and the media truly lost track of this. Fix our bullpen and we're a better team even WITH Williams being were still the starting CF.

  2. #2

    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    Agreed

  3. #3
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    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    Your post is paradoxical. You say get a decent glove but your signature advocates getting a centerfielder that shows no signs of "decent" or "glove" for that matter.

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    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Vazquez
    Your post is paradoxical. You say get a decent glove but your signature advocates getting a centerfielder that shows no signs of "decent" or "glove" for that matter.
    Actually his post is contradictory, not paradoxical.
    The signature aside, I tend to agree with the post. Getting a "bat" for a CFer is not the priority...it is getting a glove out there and someone with a functioning arm...
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    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    Compared to an everyday player, relievers, especially middle relievers, don't have much of an impact. Improving our output in CF, hopefully on defense and offense, is our greatest need right now.

  6. #6

    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Vazquez
    Your post is paradoxical. You say get a decent glove but your signature advocates getting a centerfielder that shows no signs of "decent" or "glove" for that matter.
    Yes I would have to agree there. Pierre was never a good fit and he will continue to decline. Why would you be so high on Pierre? But I do agree with you that fixing the bullpen and having more quality in the pen rather than quantity(like last year) the Yankees will be a better team even with Williams or Crosby in center. Of course a good CFer like a Jeremy Reed or possibly a Jason Michaels will help make the bullpen better because of improved defense in Center. Also improved defense in right, say Michaels in right and Reed in center would also make the bullpen MUCH better because those are two very good defenders who will run down more balls than any combination of Crosby/Bernie/Sheffield.
    I'm too smooth you'll never see me comin', I'm never in a hurry I'm just movin' fast...

  7. #7

    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Vazquez
    Your post is paradoxical. You say get a decent glove but your signature advocates getting a centerfielder that shows no signs of "decent" or "glove" for that matter.
    I was stating that 'we' all(that includes myself) have lost track of the more serious issue.

  8. #8
    You talkin' to me? DandyAndy46's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Wang's Groundballs
    Compared to an everyday player, relievers, especially middle relievers, don't have much of an impact. Improving our output in CF, hopefully on defense and offense, is our greatest need right now.

    Why is imporiving the offense a necessity...last time a I checked the Yankees have A-Rod, Jeter, Cano, Giambi, Matsui, Sheffield, and Posada....sounds like a pretty good 1-7 to me, so why does this team NEED an offensive CFer??
    "Statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support, not illumination."
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  9. #9

    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by NewEraYanks2527
    Yes I would have to agree there. Pierre was never a good fit and he will continue to decline. Why would you be so high on Pierre? But I do agree with you that fixing the bullpen and having more quality in the pen rather than quantity(like last year) the Yankees will be a better team even with Williams or Crosby in center. Of course a good CFer like a Jeremy Reed or possibly a Jason Michaels will help make the bullpen better because of improved defense in Center. Also improved defense in right, say Michaels in right and Reed in center would also make the bullpen MUCH better because those are two very good defenders who will run down more balls than any combination of Crosby/Bernie/Sheffield.
    If the keep walking guys and giving up homers it's not gonna matter if Andruw Jones is our centerfielder. Better defense would not have dramatically improved the results Embree, Felix Rodgriquez, or Proctor, etc..

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    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by DandyAndy46
    Why is imporiving the offense a necessity...last time a I checked the Yankees have A-Rod, Jeter, Cano, Giambi, Matsui, Sheffield, and Posada....sounds like a pretty good 1-7 to me, so why does this team NEED an offensive CFer??
    Last I checked the goal is to score more runs than your opponents. Whether you do that by preventing them from scoring runs or by producing more runs yourself doesn't matter as long as you do it. And I never said it was necessary, just that we need more output from CF; this could be from a CF that saves 20 runs with the glove and gives up 10 with the bat, I don't care as long as they help us win games.

  11. #11
    You talkin' to me? DandyAndy46's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Wang's Groundballs
    Last I checked the goal is to score more runs than your opponents. Whether you do that by preventing them from scoring runs or by producing more runs yourself doesn't matter as long as you do it. And I never said it was necessary, just that we need more output from CF; this could be from a CF that saves 20 runs with the glove and gives up 10 with the bat, I don't care as long as they help us win games.
    But you also said the Yank need a CFer with improved offensive and defensive capacity...
    I would agree with you to the extent that defense does save runs, however I don't think that the Yanks need an offensive CFer. If they can get a good defensive CFer the offense should put up more than enough runs..
    "Statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support, not illumination."
    -Vin Scully

  12. #12
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    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    If they had better middle relief the last two years they would have been in a better position.
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  13. #13
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    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by HouseThatRingsBuild
    If they had better middle relief the last two years they would have been in a better position.
    Let's be fair...in 2004 it wasn't that they didn't have good relief, they just didn't have enough of it and Joe had to use Q, Sturtze, Gordon, and Mo every friggin day and by the time they got to the playoffs they were spent...
    "Statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support, not illumination."
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  14. #14

    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by DandyAndy46
    Let's be fair...in 2004 it wasn't that they didn't have good relief, they just didn't have enough of it and Joe had to use Q, Sturtze, Gordon, and Mo every friggin day and by the time they got to the playoffs they were spent...
    Same difference. Not good enough not deep enough, same thing. Point is we need a better pullben, that constitutes both talent and depth.

  15. #15
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    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    I think it is very hard to compare the two.

    CF requires and everyday guy, where his overall ability will end up shining through.

    Bullpen help, especially middle relief is very fickle and changes from year to year. You sometimes really just have to throw guys against the wall and see who sticks.
    \
    Hopefully you wouldn't do that with CF

    Overall, I think both are fine. Maybe sign another guy and let some of the guys in the minor leagues fill up the rest of the spots.

    Sign nomar, and his offense in accordance with the rest of lineup can carry Bubba's bat (eventhough I don't think it will be as bad as people think)

    For this season, I think the pen will play a much bigger role in our success.

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    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by DandyAndy46
    But you also said the Yank need a CFer with improved offensive and defensive capacity...
    I would agree with you to the extent that defense does save runs, however I don't think that the Yanks need an offensive CFer. If they can get a good defensive CFer the offense should put up more than enough runs..
    I never said we need one. I said, "Improving our output in CF, hopefully on defense and offense, is our greatest need right now."

    All I care about is getting the player that adds the most wins to our team. If he does that by adding more offense, defense, or both I don't really care, just as long as he does it.

  17. #17
    You talkin' to me? DandyAndy46's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Wang's Groundballs
    I never said we need one. I said, "Improving our output in CF, hopefully on defense and offense, is our greatest need right now."

    All I care about is getting the player that adds the most wins to our team. If he does that by adding more offense, defense, or both I don't really care, just as long as he does it.
    On that my friend, I wholeheartedly agree...
    "Statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support, not illumination."
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  18. #18
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    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by DandyAndy46
    But you also said the Yank need a CFer with improved offensive and defensive capacity...
    I would agree with you to the extent that defense does save runs, however I don't think that the Yanks need an offensive CFer. If they can get a good defensive CFer the offense should put up more than enough runs..
    I dont think the offense can hold a no hit centerfielder.

  19. #19

    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    [QUOTE=Wang's Groundballs]Compared to an everyday player, relievers, especially middle relievers, don't have much of an impact.QUOTE]

    Don't have much of an impact?

    I agree that everyday players naturally have more of an impact on a game as the nature of thier playing time would dictact that, however, relief pitching can cost a team a significant amount of games especially in the playoffs when competition is tighter and many games come down to one at bat, one pitch, one defensive play. It puts a strain on starting pitching to have to constantly worry about having great outings and going longer innings which then tires out our staff and leads to tired arms late season.

    With the amount of slugging power we have on this team I would rather get superior middle relief over a superior CF, if I couldn't have both. If we can get both, great.

  20. #20
    You talkin' to me? DandyAndy46's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattpat11
    I dont think the offense can hold a no hit centerfielder.
    Please tell me you're joking..
    "Statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support, not illumination."
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  21. #21
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    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by DandyAndy46
    Let's be fair...in 2004 it wasn't that they didn't have good relief, they just didn't have enough of it and Joe had to use Q, Sturtze, Gordon, and Mo every friggin day and by the time they got to the playoffs they were spent...

    ok, I mean depth as well
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  22. #22
    Released Outright Mattpat11's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by DandyAndy46
    Please tell me you're joking..
    I'd be lying if I did.

    We currently have no DH and Posada is declining.


    Posada
    Phillips/Whomever
    Crosby/Whomever

    would be death at 7/8/9.

  23. #23
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    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattpat11
    I'd be lying if I did.

    We currently have no DH and Posada is declining.


    Posada
    Phillips/Whomever
    Crosby/Whomever

    would be death at 7/8/9.
    Thats better than every team except Boston
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  24. #24
    You talkin' to me? DandyAndy46's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattpat11
    I'd be lying if I did.

    We currently have no DH and Posada is declining.


    Posada
    Phillips/Whomever
    Crosby/Whomever

    would be death at 7/8/9.
    Are you completely ignoring what the yankees have at 1-6?????
    DH will probably rotate to keep players fresh
    Any team besides the Red Sox would kill to have the Yankees 1-7, and big deal if the 8,9 hitters aren't Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig...it's not a real problem in my mind..
    "Statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support, not illumination."
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  25. #25
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    Re: Centerfield Vs Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by DandyAndy46
    DH will probably rotate to keep players fresh
    And when, say, Gary Sheffield is the DH, who's the right fielder?

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