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  1. #1
    you won't be missed mel
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    Mar 2004

    How about dealing with the Tigers?

    I'm in the camp that would unload Posada and Pavano if the right deal were there.

    While I'll admit that it's highly unlikely only because of how many players are involved, I think that this deal would work for both teams:

    Yanks Get:
    Pudge Rodriguez
    Troy Percival
    Carlos Pena
    Mike Maroth
    Nook Logan

    Tigers Get:
    Carl Pavano
    Jorge Posada


    From the Tigers point of view, they're moving pudge who supposedly has begun to wear out his welcome and getting posada (a "proven winner" who is still a producer at the plate). The Yanks actually get some early salary relief as posada makes more. Pudge's defense, while on the decline is still considerably better than Posada. they'd move Pena who they're already replacing with Chris Shelton and his salary of $2.5M, who the yanks could use as a giambi caddie and a lefty bat off the bench and occasional dh. and they'd move Percival who is overpayed even if he comes back. the yanks can afford to take a chance on percival. the tigers can't. Logan is a speedy guy who can play center as well as pinch run if necessary. Maroth is a lefty that, while not overpowering, would still be a solid #3. The Tigers getting Pavano would give them a 1A starter (at least Pavano is still thought of that way by some) to go with Bonderman.

    breaking it down, it's really pavano for logan and maroth and the rest just even everything else out.
    Jesse Barfield was a great Yankee!

  2. #2

    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    Pudge: .276 .290 .444 OPS+ 94

    Po: .262 .352 .430 OPS+ 105

    Pass.
    Fire Cashman!

  3. #3

    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    Percival is just coming off major surgery and they're not sure he will make it all the way back. No way, I make that deal.

  4. #4
    Down with O.P.P. Fabien Brandy's Avatar
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    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    If no money was used to balance salaries then I'd do that deal if I'm the Yankees. Right now Posada and Pavano have negative trade value (if put on waivers, no team would assume their contracts).

    Getting out of Pavano's deal is big value on its own.

    They would also help the defense at 3 positions (CF, C, 1B) and Maroth is a lefty innings eater and pretty cheap (tradeable).

    Percival is a salary dump at one more year at $6M but $6M is better than the $30+M still owed to Pavano.

  5. #5
    NYYF MVP


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    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    I like it
    "No, I would not like to reconsider being a Yankee fan, and no, marrying a New Englander should have no bearing on it."

  6. #6
    NYYF Legend

    mbn007's Avatar
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    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    Very good deal for the Yankees, but why would the Tigers do it? They lose bench strength, and if Percivil makes it back, their only potential closer. Farnsworth and Urbina are gone, and they have no one besides Troy.

    And Pena is a super fielder, but his bat is useless unless he plays regularly.

  7. #7
    Boycott BP NYDCYankee's Avatar
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    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    I like the idea of the Yankees looking in to obtaining Pena. He could be the defensive minded decent stick guy the Yankees have been looking for. Tony Clarkesque.
    "Long Island is New Jersey with a GED." - Triumph the Insult Comic Dog.

  8. #8
    can't pump his fist Mark19's Avatar
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    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    Quote Originally Posted by NYDCYankee
    I like the idea of the Yankees looking in to obtaining Pena. He could be the defensive minded decent stick guy the Yankees have been looking for. Tony Clarkesque.
    http://www.detnews.com/2005/tigers/0...D01-376808.htm



    'Pena figures to be the most likely to go, perhaps to the Yankees, who declined to pick up the option on Tino Martinez.'
    SI: Do you have a secret ambition?
    Igawa: That's secret.


    "They should just practice during the regular season and show up for the playoffs -Ichiro on the Yankees

  9. #9

    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    After reading the linked article, I actually think the thread-starter here may be on to something. I don't know about the entire package the Yankees would or should get, but the basic deal of Pavano and/or Posada for Pudge might be attractive to both teams. If both Jorge and Pavano were traded, the Y's of course would have to get more, but how much more depends on the money part of the deal. Remember that if the Y's save money, they can use it in the free agent market or in other deals. It is too complicated to work out the details, but am I right to assume that Pudge still has enough gas in his tank to be a significant upgrade over Jorge over the next couple of years, considering both offeense and defense?

  10. #10
    NYYF Legend

    Dr. Gonzo's Avatar
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    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    why are people so quick to give up on Pavano? I hate that about Yankee fans, we are ready to kick peopel out quickly and it bites us in the ass alot. I hope people at work treat you with the same rediculous expectations.

  11. #11
    you won't be missed mel
    Join Date
    Mar 2004

    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    i am not looking to dump pavano for a bag of balls here. i just think that maroth is a younger, cheaper, lefty that doesn't have the injury history of pavano and I'd like to shore up the defense by swapping posada and pudge.

    as to why would they deal percival, i think that even if he does make it back, they'd rather get out of his $$ and sign someone else. the percival signing was more of a PR move anyway to show that they were "serious about winning."
    Jesse Barfield was a great Yankee!

  12. #12
    NYYF Legend


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    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich
    Pudge: .276 .290 .444 OPS+ 94

    Po: .262 .352 .430 OPS+ 105

    Pass.
    pudge is still light years, LIIIIIIGHT YEARS ahead of any other AL catcher defensively. he got JOBBED by not being awarded the gold glove.

    peep his stats. he throws out more runners than he allows steals. why? cuz teams abandon their running game when they go against him.

    he can get one hit in a season and i'd still want his automatic out butt out there 125 games a year.

    best defensive catcher ever? probably.

  13. #13
    Member

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    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    I'd like to more back for Pavano. By getting Pavano, Tigers may have an easier time signing Burnett. That has to be considered.

  14. #14
    New Account apolansk's Avatar
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    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo
    pudge is still light years, LIIIIIIGHT YEARS ahead of any other AL catcher defensively. he got JOBBED by not being awarded the gold glove.

    peep his stats. he throws out more runners than he allows steals. why? cuz teams abandon their running game when they go against him.

    he can get one hit in a season and i'd still want his automatic out butt out there 125 games a year.

    best defensive catcher ever? probably.
    I've heard he calls terrible games because he wants to the pitcher to repeatedly throw fastballs so he will be able to keep up his CS rates. Also his numbers kind of dropped off a cliff last year.

    AVG dropped 50 pts
    OBP dropped 90 pts
    SLG dropped 65 pts
    HR dropped by 5
    RBI dropped 36.

    I'm gonna pass on trading a 33 yr old catcher, for a 33 yr old catcher. Especially considering we'd have to throw in money for Po, considering if they use him as their starting catcher the option would vest.

  15. #15
    NYYF Legend


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    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Gonzo
    why are people so quick to give up on Pavano? I hate that about Yankee fans, we are ready to kick peopel out quickly and it bites us in the ass alot. I hope people at work treat you with the same rediculous expectations.
    We are so quick to give up Pavano because we all know how it works with the pitchers around here - you either have it or you don't. I know he was injured last season but when healthy, he certainly did NOT look like a $10 million a year player.

    NL pitchers making the transition to the AL are just not good...

  16. #16
    you won't be missed mel
    Join Date
    Mar 2004

    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    Quote Originally Posted by apolansk
    I've heard he calls terrible games because he wants to the pitcher to repeatedly throw fastballs so he will be able to keep up his CS rates. Also his numbers kind of dropped off a cliff last year.

    AVG dropped 50 pts
    OBP dropped 90 pts
    SLG dropped 65 pts
    HR dropped by 5
    RBI dropped 36.

    I'm gonna pass on trading a 33 yr old catcher, for a 33 yr old catcher. Especially considering we'd have to throw in money for Po, considering if they use him as their starting catcher the option would vest.
    pudge did have a down year, but that was one year in a horrendous pitchers park. and I would not give any money towards the deal. the tigers have money to spend and taking percival and pena off their hands evens up the money a little.
    Jesse Barfield was a great Yankee!

  17. #17
    New Account apolansk's Avatar
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    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    Quote Originally Posted by sundstrom
    pudge did have a down year, but that was one year in a horrendous pitchers park. and I would not give any money towards the deal. the tigers have money to spend and taking percival and pena off their hands evens up the money a little.
    I was comparing his numbers to his 2004 season which he played in, Comerica Park. That's no excuse for you're numbers to fall off a cliff like that. Unless you're aging as a catcher.

  18. #18

    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    I think a more likely scenario is Carlos Pena and Pitcher or Pitching Prospect for Carl Pavano. If the Tigers miss out on Burnett this year, they could be interested in Pavano, especially in that spacious ballpark. They wanted to sign him last year.

    Of course, I would love to get Joel Zumaya from the Tigers, but i don't see that happening (Bonderman, Verlander even less likely). Possibly a lesser prospect like Humberto Sanchez or a backend major league starter like Robertson or Maroth. CF Nook Logan could be an option as well.

    I have always liked Pena, he just needs to focus during every at bat. He K's way too much, but has very good power and is a solid defensive 1b with no spot on the current Tigers (Shelton 1b, DMeat DH).

    I am not saying i would necessarily do this deal, just food for thought...

  19. #19
    you won't be missed mel
    Join Date
    Mar 2004

    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    good point. i think pavano for maroth/pena/logan would also work if you wanted to leave the catchers alone. although i think pudge will age better than posada for the next 2-3 years.
    Jesse Barfield was a great Yankee!

  20. #20

    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    Now that Pudge is off the juice, he will decline quickly. I would have to think before making this deal, since we have no future catcher, and I am not quite ready to give up on Pavano.

  21. #21
    Crow,Tony,Joe,Yogi,Riz,2 Joes Tifoso's Avatar
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    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    Quote Originally Posted by surge511
    Now that Pudge is off the juice, he will decline quickly. I would have to think before making this deal, since we have no future catcher, and I am not quite ready to give up on Pavano.
    Pavano pitched well--at least before he got plunked in the head. There is no reason (yet) to think that he can't return to form.
    -Lou 27 (28 in 2014)
    Totus Tuus

  22. #22

    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    Ok....I don't like it. First, Pudge and Posada are both catchers on a severe decline. I don't really want to add another over the hill catcher if the Yanks are ridding themselves of Posada.

    Secondly, I believe Pavano has a much better chance to be a very good pitcher than Maroth. Maroth is going to be what he is- a competent starter. Pavano was injured the whole second part of his year last year, and pitched pretty well before he started hurting. He's a good pitcher when healthy- he just hasn't been healthy.

    Percival stunk before his injury- he's about done. No need. Pena I don't mind, but I doubt he'll ever achieve consistency. He reminds me perfectly of Tony Clark- streaks of power, very good glove. Logan is a throwaway- never be much more than a speedster who slaps at the ball.

  23. #23
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    JeffWeaverFan's Avatar
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    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    I don't wany anything to do with Pudge.
    “I mean, people knew that Brown was out there, and that Randy was ornery all the time. And Pavano is whoever he is. But if you’re their manager, you can’t go out and write about them like that.

  24. #24
    Godzilla Rules
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    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    Pavano should be able to nets us Granderson and Pena from the desperate Tigers. Bottom line is that very few top players want to come there and for those who do, the Tigers have to overpay them (Pudge). As someone else mentioned, they might have a better chance of getting Burnett if they have Pavano in the fold. Bonderman, Pavano, and Burnett would make them a formidable force in the AL Central making life very tough on the Sox, Indians, and Twins. If they want legitamacy, they need to make Granderson the focal point of the deal with Pena as a throw in.
    "If you are falling off a cliff, you might as well try to fly"....JS

  25. #25
    you won't be missed mel
    Join Date
    Mar 2004

    Re: How about dealing with the Tigers?

    i'd love granderson, but i just don't think the tigers are going to give a future star for pavano. when i looked at their roster, i figured that both he and shelton were who they were looking to build around. that's why i suggested logan who's a speedy CF.
    Jesse Barfield was a great Yankee!

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