The Baltimore Orioles Thread (merged)

[Mark19]

you turned out to be one of the biggest liars int he history of the internet with your asseration that the Orioles are a clean team.

The biggest laugher is Jay Gibbons. Apparently he should have gotten a refund on his batch. His career was over before it started.

[bobby jr]

you turned out to be one of the biggest liars int he history of the internet with your asseration that the Orioles are a clean team.

Some people apparently don't even know what lying is. Unusual for this board, not so much for Sunspot, where you like to post, but let me help you out.

If you say something you believe is true at the time based on available facts, that is not lying. That is a mistake, if facts later come out that show that you were wrong.

As for the Orioles dumping steroid users, Raffy and Tejada are already gone. I have a feeling that Roberts and Gibbons will be gone too, (although Roberts steroid use is based upon some of the weakest evidence used in the report)

[gK]

Some people apparently don't even know what lying is. Unusual for this board, not so much for Sunspot, where you like to post, but let me help you out.

If you say something you believe is true at the time based on available facts, that is not lying. That is a mistake, if facts later come out that show that you were wrong.

As for the Orioles dumping steroid users, Raffy and Tejada are already gone. I have a feeling that Roberts and Gibbons will be gone too, (although Roberts steroid use is based upon some of the weakest evidence used in the report)

Do you think you could possibly be making a mistake about the payroll/unfair advantage issue?

[bobby jr]

The biggest laugher is Jay Gibbons. Apparently he should have gotten a refund on his batch. His career was over before it started.

Actually Gibbons had some decent years, 2003 23 HR's and 100 RBI. 2005 26 HR's, .277 BA.

My own suspicion is that his recent deteroration to .230 and 6 HR last year is due to his going off of the juice. I hope the Orioles get rid of him soon although I don't know if any other team would want him. He made 5 million last year.

[bobby jr]

Do you think you could possibly be making a mistake about the payroll/unfair advantage issue?

Well I don't think it is possible that I could be wrong in thinking that having a high payroll is a factor in determining a teams winning percentage. I suppose I could be wrong in thinking this is the Orioles biggest problem, but that remains to be seen.

[Mark19]

If you say something you believe is true at the time based on available facts, that is not lying. That is a mistake, if facts later come out that show that you were wrong.

That in nonsense. Ignorance isn't an excuse. You directly claimed that the Orioles were a clean clubhouse, even when logic dictated that this was highly unlikely.

You lied.

[keg411]

I feel bad for Brian Roberts... but only right now. After all, every felt bad for Raffy Palmeiro at first too....

[gK]

That in nonsense. Ignorance isn't an excuse. You directly claimed that the Orioles were a clean clubhouse, even when logic dictated that this was highly unlikely.

You lied.

I don't think he lied. I don't think bobby is a liar. I just think that he gets wrapped up in his team's crappiness and believes what he wants to or whatever is easiest. I used to do it with the Knicks but this season has been an awakening.

[Why Not?]

The biggest laugher is Jay Gibbons. Apparently he should have gotten a refund on his batch. His career was over before it started.

I don't know man. Even if he spent, say, $100,000 on steroids/HGH, that might have been the difference between a 2-3 year career in the majors and how his career has turned out. He'll wind up making $20 million in salary.

Not a bad investment. Of course, you have to count on some team signing your sorry butt to a long-term deal.

[heyabbott]

The biggest laugher is Jay Gibbons. Apparently he should have gotten a refund on his batch. His career was over before it started.

The orioles are too stupid to even get good 'roids abusers. Larry Bigbie seems to b e the inhouse ring leader and he's never amounted to anything but a lot of early chatter on orioles fanboy sites about being the second coming of Larry Sheets. LOL.
keep on trolling booby.

BTW who was the orioles minor league pitcher that died doing drugs? did angelos know about the drug use?

[Mark19]

The orioles are too stupid to even get good 'roids abusers. Larry Bigbie seems to b e the inhouse ring leader and he's never amounted to anything but a lot of early chatter on orioles fanboy sites about being the second coming of Larry Sheets. LOL.
keep on trolling booby.

BTW who was the orioles minor league pitcher that died doing drugs? did angelos know about the drug use?

He was too busy browbeating the Nationals for daring to bring a team to the country's 8th largest metro area.

[bobby jr]

He was too busy browbeating the Nationals for daring to bring a team to the country's 8th largest metro area.

How dare Angelos fight a team moving less than 40 miles away from Camden Yards?
The Nats attendance was pretty bad last year too, large metro area or not.

[RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees]

How dare Angelos fight a team moving less than 40 miles away from Camden Yards?
The Nats attendance was pretty bad last year too, large metro area or not.

There's two teams in the LA market, two teams in NY, and two teams in Chicago. Those are all closer to each other, and at the very least they're also within the same state.

[Why Not?]

The orioles are too stupid to even get good 'roids abusers. Larry Bigbie seems to b e the inhouse ring leader and he's never amounted to anything but a lot of early chatter on orioles fanboy sites about being the second coming of Larry Sheets. LOL.
keep on trolling booby.

BTW who was the orioles minor league pitcher that died doing drugs? did angelos know about the drug use?

Steve Bechler, whose death led to the banning of ephedra. Ephedra was the ingredient in diet pills like Dexatrim. It was very much legal and available at your grocery store.

[Why Not?]

There's two teams in the LA market, two teams in NY, and two teams in Chicago. Those are all closer to each other, and at the very least they're also within the same state.

Much larger markets.

[Carbon Fiber]

Much larger markets.

Yeah, but the metro area population of Chicago is very close to the metro area population of Baltimore and D.C. added together... So while much larger markets, wouldn't you compare them with the Baltimore/D.C. markets added together?

[marietta_soxfan]

Thank god the Mitchell report didn't include Jack Daniels use or Millar would have been screwed.

[Why Not?]

Yeah, but the metro area population of Chicago is very close to the metro area population of Baltimore and D.C. added together... So while much larger markets, wouldn't you compare them with the Baltimore/D.C. markets added together?

Not THAT close. Population assessments of urban areas can vary widely, but Chicago is still in the neighborhood of 20% larger than DC and Baltimore combined.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest..._United_States

Furthermore, if it's true that Baltimore/Washington should be able to support two teams because of its population, it is also true that New York should be able to support three teams, possibly four. How would ownership of the Yanks and Mets feel about that.

[Mark19]

Not THAT close. Population assessments of urban areas can vary widely, but Chicago is still in the neighborhood of 20% larger than DC and Baltimore combined.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest..._United_States

Furthermore, if it's true that Baltimore/Washington should be able to support two teams because of its population, it is also true that New York should be able to support three teams, possibly four. How would ownership of the Yanks and Mets feel about that.

That isn't technically true. New York Metro area has three hockey teams, two basketball teams, two football teams, two baseball teams, a pro soccer team, four minor league baseball teams and countless one-time events (US Open, NCAA Tournament) to keep the sports market saturated.

The Nationals were aimed at Northern Virginia, one of the fastest growing regions in the country. It already has 2.5 million people which is more than the populations of the Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Denver, Cincy and KC metro areas.
I live in Arlington and go to Nats games 6-8 times a year and this doesn't stop me from going to Baltimore when a good team is in town.

The DC/Baltimore area can certainly support two teams. The attendence problems at Camden are a reflection of crappy ownership rather than the effect of the Nats.

[NelsonMuntz]

That isn't technically true. New York Metro area has three hockey teams, two basketball teams, two football teams, two baseball teams, a pro soccer team, four minor league baseball teams and countless one-time events (US Open, NCAA Tournament) to keep the sports market saturated.

The Nationals were aimed at Northern Virginia, one of the fastest growing regions in the country. It already has 2.5 million people which is more than the populations of the Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Denver, Cincy and KC metro areas.
I live in Arlington and go to Nats games 6-8 times a year and this doesn't stop me from going to Baltimore when a good team is in town.

The DC/Baltimore area can certainly support two teams. The attendence problems at Camden are a reflection of crappy ownership rather than the effect of the Nats.

Absolutely 100% correct. Orioles attendance was declining long before the Nationals moved into town. Fans will only support a lousy, poorly run team for so long. Plus traffic in the DC area has gotten so bad over the last 10 years that a lot of Baltimore's Northern VA fanbase have simply stopped going to weeknight games. You have to leave by 4:00 to get to a 7:00 game on time. That is not an exaggeration.

[Why Not?]

That isn't technically true. New York Metro area has three hockey teams, two basketball teams, two football teams, two baseball teams, a pro soccer team, four minor league baseball teams and countless one-time events (US Open, NCAA Tournament) to keep the sports market saturated.

The Nationals were aimed at Northern Virginia, one of the fastest growing regions in the country. It already has 2.5 million people which is more than the populations of the Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Denver, Cincy and KC metro areas.
I live in Arlington and go to Nats games 6-8 times a year and this doesn't stop me from going to Baltimore when a good team is in town.

The DC/Baltimore area can certainly support two teams. The attendence problems at Camden are a reflection of crappy ownership rather than the effect of the Nats.

No debate about crappy ownership. NelsonMuntz's points are also true. But having another team 40 miles away clearly has an impact as well. Yeah, Baltimore/DC will probably support two teams, though neither will likely be ultra-successful.

That said, I think NY could handle three teams at a similar level. At the very least, it could serve to even the playing field a bit revenue-wise. Would it seem like a penalty of sorts for the New York teams, yes. But that's essentially what the Nats are to Baltimore.

[Mark19]

No debate about crappy ownership. NelsonMuntz's points are also true. But having another team 40 miles away clearly has an impact as well. Yeah, Baltimore/DC will probably support two teams, though neither will likely be ultra-successful.

That said, I think NY could handle three teams at a similar level. At the very least, it could serve to even the playing field a bit revenue-wise. Would it seem like a penalty of sorts for the New York teams, yes. But that's essentially what the Nats are to Baltimore.

I just don't believe that a new team in the NYC area would really alter the balance of power. Yanks/Mets fans are pretty entrenched in their own teams and have been for nearly 60 years. DC needed a team because it was one of the fastest growing regions in the country. Young, professional transplants are exactly the type of people you build your fanbase around.

[groovitude]

Hey guys... the NYC area has supported three teams in the past. It could potentially work again.

(Send the Dodgers back to Brooklyn, please. That'd be sweet.)

[gK]

How dare Angelos fight a team moving less than 40 miles away from Camden Yards?
The Nats attendance was pretty bad last year too, large metro area or not.

They played in RFK. I don't think it's fair to judge attendance considering that. Let's see what happens when they get their new stadium.

[TheYankee]

Can we change the thread title to The Baltimore SterOrioles Thread?