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10-15-04 12:16 AM #1
- Join Date
- Feb 2004
- Location
- Bronx, NY
Mel Hall and Bernie Williams early on
I've always wanted to know exactly what went on between those two in Bernies early days. As I understand it, Mel gave Bernie a very hard time. Any specifics? Anybody care to share info?
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10-15-04 12:25 AM #2
- Join Date
- Mar 2002
It's been widely reported that Mel Hall umercifully rode the young, shy Bernie Williams, calling him names such as "Bambi." Gene Michael and Buck Showalter realized that the hazing could stunt Bernie's growth as a player, and shipped Mel's butt out of town, as part of their effort to form a team made up of players with good character off the field, as well as top tier ability on the field.
http://www.sportingnews.com/features...90splayer.html
...
TSN: During your early years with the Yankees, there were some difficult personalities in the clubhouse. There were reports that Mel Hall, in particular, gave you a hard time. Could you talk about trying to fit in as a sensitive 22-year-old and how you were able to handle it?
Williams: It's one of the things that every new player has to go through to some degree. It was just my luck that I came up on a team with a lot of veterans. You come up with the impression that everyone's your friend, that everybody's going to be nice to you. In a sense, they want you to do well. But then when you start doing too well, it gets into a difficult situation because it turns out that you're taking somebody's job, and that's a problem. I take those years as growing pains. ... I would never do what happened to me to another player. It wasn't the right way to treat anybody. At the same time, it really teaches you that this is a tough job. It toughened me up. It didn't really make a tear in my character. I kept my same focus and same attitude. But it really taught me a lot.
TRUCK FUMP
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10-15-04 12:34 AM #3
bernie's a tough cookie, although it does sound like hall really did ride him pretty hard.
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10-15-04 12:52 AM #4
- Join Date
- Feb 2004
- Location
- Bronx, NY
When Bernie came up, wasn't Roberto Kelly in center? Bernie moved Kelly to left, correct. Is that why Hall was pissed because now he had to move to right because of Bernie? Somehow I remember Hall as a LF and Barfield as the RF. I think I'm getting years confused maybe. I was like 9 or 10 back then.
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10-15-04 12:56 AM #5
- Join Date
- Mar 2002
Kelly was the CFer when Bernie first came up, and clearly Hall knew that Bernie's presence could cause a ripple effect that could put his job in jeopardy, but he was also an asshole.
TRUCK FUMP
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10-15-04 12:59 AM #6
I could be wrong here, but wasn't there a certain Yankee (forgetting who at the moment) that told Mel Hall to shut up? Was it Don Mattingly? I could swear I remember this being part of the story.
“I mean, people knew that Brown was out there, and that Randy was ornery all the time. And Pavano is whoever he is. But if you’re their manager, you can’t go out and write about them like that.”
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10-15-04 01:00 AM #7
- Join Date
- Mar 2002
Originally posted by JeffWeaverFan
I could be wrong here, but wasn't there a certain Yankee (forgetting who at the moment) that told Mel Hall to shut up? Was it Don Mattingly? I could swear I remember this being part of the story.TRUCK FUMP
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10-15-04 01:05 AM #8
Son of Mel Hall is not gonna like this Thread.
Equally as calm as ClownPickle ~(+/- 1)
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10-15-04 01:13 AM #9
- Join Date
- Aug 2004
Originally posted by JDPNYY
Son of Mel Hall is not gonna like this Thread.
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10-15-04 01:18 AM #10Originally posted by ClayParker
Son has already expressed shame for his father's transgressions.Equally as calm as ClownPickle ~(+/- 1)
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10-15-04 01:19 AM #11
- Join Date
- Mar 2002
Originally posted by JDPNYY
That is true, but...TRUCK FUMP
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10-15-04 01:22 AM #12Originally posted by Rich
He should realize that the sins of the father should never be visited on the son....
This is true, but it still hurts to see this in print.Equally as calm as ClownPickle ~(+/- 1)
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10-15-04 02:49 AM #13
I met Mel Halls ex-wife (or so she said) while working out @ a Bally Total Fitness in Studio City, CA. She spoke exceedingly HIGHLY of Mel. We even talked about the Bernie incident and that Mel was courting a HS student at one time.
All I can say is, I believe she was who she said she was, and I've never heard an ex speak so well of her former spouse.
I think there is A LOT more to people than meets the eye. And I'm sure there are MANY wonderful, stand up things about Mel Hall. And for a while there, he was a heck of a ballplayer.
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10-15-04 02:57 AM #14
- Join Date
- Mar 2002
Originally posted by BobbyMurcerFan
I met Mel Halls ex-wife (or so she said) while working out @ a Bally Total Fitness in Studio City, CA. She spoke exceedingly HIGHLY of Mel. We even talked about the Bernie incident and that Mel was courting a HS student at one time.
All I can say is, I believe she was who she said she was, and I've never heard an ex speak so well of her former spouse.
I think there is A LOT more to people than meets the eye. And I'm sure there are MANY wonderful, stand up things about Mel Hall. And for a while there, he was a heck of a ballplayer.TRUCK FUMP
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10-15-04 03:14 AM #15
- Join Date
- Sep 2004
Originally posted by JeffWeaverFan
I could be wrong here, but wasn't there a certain Yankee (forgetting who at the moment) that told Mel Hall to shut up? Was it Don Mattingly? I could swear I remember this being part of the story."You play the game to win the game, and not to worry about what's on the back of the
baseball card at the end of the year."
- Paul O'Neill
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10-15-04 04:10 AM #16
- Join Date
- Aug 2004
Originally posted by BobbyMurcerFan
I met Mel Halls ex-wife (or so she said) while working out @ a Bally Total Fitness in Studio City, CA. She spoke exceedingly HIGHLY of Mel. We even talked about the Bernie incident and that Mel was courting a HS student at one time.
All I can say is, I believe she was who she said she was, and I've never heard an ex speak so well of her former spouse.
I think there is A LOT more to people than meets the eye. And I'm sure there are MANY wonderful, stand up things about Mel Hall. And for a while there, he was a heck of a ballplayer.
People are complex. Jayson Williams (former Nets basketball star) was and is, by many accounts, a great guy. Good husband and father. Extremely charming, gregarious, and generous.
But he ended up getting drunk and killing a guy accidentally with a shotgun on his estate. During the trial, some of the uglier aspects of his personality came to light, such as his bullying. Actually, this was hinted at in the press at various times even before the shotgun incident. For example, I remember him making fun of a short guy on the team, in a rather demeaning fashion.
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10-15-04 04:53 AM #17
Buster Olney's book on the Yankees also discusses how Mel Hall treated Bernie. And Olney also included one other tidbit about Hall I hadn't read elsewhere. Apparently, it's hard to see where the ball is landing in right field from the Yankee dugout, so when a ball is hard-hit in that direction, the players will often stand up to see where the ball went, and to cheer on their teammates. Anyhow, Buck Showalter noticed that Hall was the only player who never stood up to see where his teammates hit the ball, and whether or not it was a hit.
I'm paraphrasing from memory, as I don't have the book with me right now, so I hope what I wrote makes sense!
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10-15-04 05:12 AM #18Originally posted by ClayParker
What was her take on the Bernie incident?
People are complex. Jayson Williams (former Nets basketball star) was and is, by many accounts, a great guy. Good husband and father. Extremely charming, gregarious, and generous.
But he ended up getting drunk and killing a guy accidentally with a shotgun on his estate. During the trial, some of the uglier aspects of his personality came to light, such as his bullying. Actually, this was hinted at in the press at various times even before the shotgun incident. For example, I remember him making fun of a short guy on the team, in a rather demeaning fashion.
But again, she also said he was immature at that time, so it wasn't all excuses/justifications.Last edited by BobbyMurcerFan; 10-15-04 at 11:00 AM.
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10-15-04 06:33 AM #19
- Join Date
- Jan 2004
- Location
- CT
Originally posted by JeffWeaverFan
I could be wrong here, but wasn't there a certain Yankee (forgetting who at the moment) that told Mel Hall to shut up? Was it Don Mattingly? I could swear I remember this being part of the story.
-Triple G
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10-15-04 07:56 AM #20
- Join Date
- Feb 2001
- Location
- Queens, New York
Rich, thanks for posting that article! I am a big Bernie fan and, though I don't know him from Adam, always feel that his intelligence and fortitude are underestimated by many fans and media. I think this article proves my point. He is very bright, seems to have some strong convictions, and yet manages to be a caring, polite, gentlemanly person as well.
Isn't it amazing that this "shy" and "introverted" guy has taken so well to this brash and extroverted city and has been able to perform at such a high level throughout his career. Even the last two years where he has performed way below his career average, I think we tend to forget the physical problems and liabilities with which he has played.
Back to Bernie's personality, as I said, I have always felt there was more toughness and fire than people gave him credit for. I particularly remember an interview with him in Spring Training of '98. John Sterling (I think) asked him about making the last out of the '97 ALDS and Bernie said he thought about it all winter and couldn't wait to get back on the field this season. Then Sterling asked him about his contract negotiations and about the fact that being a Boras client might make it more difficult for him to re-sign with The Yankees. Bernie said, "Scott Boras works for me. He will negotiate at my direction. I will worry about that when the time is right." (I can never understand why fans and media always say a guy's agent "won't let him sign for less than..." like the agent is the man's father!) Bernie knows what he's doing.
Anyway - thanks again. I enjoyed that article tremendously.
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10-15-04 08:12 AM #21Originally posted by The Q Bomb
Back to Bernie's personality, as I said, I have always felt there was more toughness and fire than people gave him credit for. I particularly remember an interview with him in Spring Training of '98. John Sterling (I think) asked him about making the last out of the '97 ALDS and Bernie said he thought about it all winter and couldn't wait to get back on the field this season. Then Sterling asked him about his contract negotiations and about the fact that being a Boras client might make it more difficult for him to re-sign with The Yankees. Bernie said, "Scott Boras works for me. He will negotiate at my direction. I will worry about that when the time is right." (I can never understand why fans and media always say a guy's agent "won't let him sign for less than..." like the agent is the man's father!) Bernie knows what he's doing.
Anyway - thanks again. I enjoyed that article tremendously.Don't look down here.
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10-15-04 08:13 AM #22
- Join Date
- Oct 2002
- Location
- Virginia Beach
The only good thing I remember Mell Hall doing as a Yankee was hitting a walk off HR to beat the Red Sox on Memorial Day in 1991. I believe it was on ESPN and I think it brought the Yankees record to .500...which was a big deal at that time.
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10-15-04 08:20 AM #23
- Join Date
- Oct 2003
- Location
- Tristate
Originally posted by BobbyMurcerFan
But again, she also said he was immature at that time, so it wasn't all excuses/justifications.
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10-15-04 08:22 AM #24
- Join Date
- Apr 2004
- Location
- Bridgeport, CT
Originally posted by NYYRoadFan
When Bernie came up, wasn't Roberto Kelly in center? Bernie moved Kelly to left, correct. Is that why Hall was pissed because now he had to move to right because of Bernie? Somehow I remember Hall as a LF and Barfield as the RF. I think I'm getting years confused maybe. I was like 9 or 10 back then.
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10-15-04 09:02 AM #25
- Join Date
- Feb 2001
- Location
- Queens, New York
Originally posted by DaPip1998
People forget how close Bernie was to signing with Boston after 1998, but he talked to George himself bec. he wanted to remain a Yankee. Something that Andy Pettitte did not do....(although he claims he wanted to stay also)
Whatever - I am so happy things worked out that, barring a major upheaval, Bernie will be a Yankee his whole career. How lucky we fans are to have had him on our team for all these years.
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