Daisuke Matsuzaka from the Seibu Lions may come to the US in '05

[Kulish29]

He's one of the better pitchers in Japan, and has been touted as the hardest throwing. He's only 24. May be a thing for the Yanks to check out and sign him to a Minor League contract and have him in the minors for a year and then bring him up. Here's some info on him.

http://www.cincypost.com/2004/04/03/...4-03-2004.html

4. Daisuke Matsuzaka, RHP, Seibu Lions. Gary Denbo, a former Yankees hitting coach and now hitting coach for the Nippon Ham Fighters, said the 23-year-old "is probably the No. 1 starter in our league and is a potential No. 2 or 3 starter in the major leagues." He's a power pitcher (his fastball reaches about 94 mph) who mixes in a slider, changeup and curve. Last year, he won 16 games and struck out 215.

http://rotoworld.com/content/story.a...B&storyid=5857

Potential imports - Daisuke Matsuzaka (RHP), Koji Uehara (RHP)

Matsuzaka and Uehara are among the very best pitchers in Japan, and both have dropped hints that they’d like to jump the majors. If it happens this winter, it’s safe to assume the Yankees and Mariners will be among the teams that get into the bidding. Matsuzaka, who turns 24 in two weeks, is the harder thrower of the two, combining a low-90s fastball with a splitter and slider. Uehara, 29, may want to reunite with former Giants teammate Hideki Matsui in New York.

His stats since 1999:

http://japanesebaseball.com/players/...?PlayerID=1104

Thoughts? Or should the Yanks be done with Japanese import pitchers?

[Irony Of It All]

I'm interested but there is some concern because he throws a gyroball and there hasn't been significant research on whether or not this pitch has caused his arm problems...

The gyroball works well in the confines of a supercomputer, but how does it work on the field? There are several pitchers making use of double-spin mechanics, but there is also a clear star: Daisuke Matsuzaka. The Seibu Lions’ 23-year-old ace throws a 98-m.p.h. fastball in addition to his gyroball, but he is best remembered in Japan for pitching ten innings in an Olympics game while just out of high school. He has lived up to the promise he showed in 2000, but has experienced elbow problems over the last two seasons.

Is this elbow problem the result of throwing the gyroball? Some flaw in double-spin theory? It’s hard to know. While much of the pitching research being done in Japan is on a par with that in America, research on pitch counts and pitcher workload has been ignored. Pitchers routinely throw 150 or more pitches and are asked to throw more in the bullpen after a poor performance. Matsuzaka is reported to have thrown more than 140 pitches ten times in 2002, just before his shoulder problems began. Worse, he had a legendary high-school start in which he pitched a complete game . . . and threw 249 pitches in 17 innings!

http://www.robneyer.com/book_04_gyroball.html

[Kulish29]

Thanks for the info Irony. He hasnt had any debilitating arm problems over the years, so I would still sign him to a minor league contract. He seems like the real deal. A tune up in the minors for a year and then bringing him up either mid-year '05 or to start '06 would be nice.

[Irony Of It All]

Originally posted by Kulish29
Thanks for the info Irony. He hasnt had any debilitating arm problems over the years, so I would still sign him to a minor league contract. He seems like the real deal. A tune up in the minors for a year and then bringing him up either mid-year '05 or to start '06 would be nice.

You're welcome and agreed on all points.

[mbn007]

I would like to see that pitch thrown on a consistent basis. A right hand hitter is not at all set up for such a late break, going the wrong way.

[Kulish29]

Originally posted by mbn007
I would like to see that pitch thrown on a consistent basis. A right hand hitter is not at all set up for such a late break, going the wrong way.

It does sound like an interesting pitch.

[NJASDJDH]

Originally posted by mbn007
I would like to see that pitch thrown on a consistent basis. A right hand hitter is not at all set up for such a late break, going the wrong way.

I think Ramon Ramirez throws it.

[mbn007]

Originally posted by NJASDJDH


I think Ramon Ramirez throws it.

I thought his was a backdoor slider??

[Irony Of It All]

Ouch. Apparently Saving The Pitcher hasn't been translated into Japanese yet, although I know one team has a copy or two lying around. Daisuke Matsuzaka, the Japanese Olympic ace, came back to Seibu and promptly struck out 16. It took him an unfortunate 149 pitches to accomplish this, and I'm guessing that even with his extra rest, he wasn't given the same advantages Jason Schmidt had when he went long in a couple starts earlier this season. Matsuzaka is expected to come to the U.S. next season. Let's hope he has an arm left to show off.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=3427

[mrbawm]

We need to get guys like this and Kendry Morales signed to minor league deals, it's imperative considering where we draft in the system and how old are team is.

[Matsui55]

Matsuzaka is the best pitch in Japan- and has serious big game experience. He just (literally this week) turned 24, yet has already been the ace on 2 Japanese Olympic teams. In Athens, he shut out the Cuban for 8 1/3 innings.

Matsuzaka will be highly sought after, most likely by every single team with any cash. However, there is a catch. Matsuzaka only has 6 years of time in the bigs there. In Japan, you need 10 years for unrestricted FA. Therefore, Matsuzaka would have to be "posted."

Essentially, posting means that U.S. teams submit sealed, secret bids to the Japanese team- best bid wins. But that only gets you negotiation rights- you still have to sign the guy. The M's did this with Ichiro several years ago- paid Orix about $11 million just to negotiate, then another $15 million or so to sign Ichiro.

I have little doubt Matsuzaka will get similar $$. He throws in the high 90's and has been a big winner. The negative- he's short- maybe 6'0" on a good day. Then again, Pedro and Wagner have had no problems with being short.

If Matsuzaka comes here, he's a #2 starter immediately for many clubs, though he might not be more than a #3 for the Yanks or Sox.

[ICEBERG18]

Originally posted by Matsui55
Matsuzaka is the best pitch in Japan- and has serious big game experience. He just (literally this week) turned 24, yet has already been the ace on 2 Japanese Olympic teams. In Athens, he shut out the Cuban for 8 1/3 innings.

Matsuzaka will be highly sought after, most likely by every single team with any cash. However, there is a catch. Matsuzaka only has 6 years of time in the bigs there. In Japan, you need 10 years for unrestricted FA. Therefore, Matsuzaka would have to be "posted."

Essentially, posting means that U.S. teams submit sealed, secret bids to the Japanese team- best bid wins. But that only gets you negotiation rights- you still have to sign the guy. The M's did this with Ichiro several years ago- paid Orix about $11 million just to negotiate, then another $15 million or so to sign Ichiro.

I have little doubt Matsuzaka will get similar $$. He throws in the high 90's and has been a big winner. The negative- he's short- maybe 6'0" on a good day. Then again, Pedro and Wagner have had no problems with being short.

If Matsuzaka comes here, he's a #2 starter immediately for many clubs, though he might not be more than a #3 for the Yanks or Sox.

so he needs 4 more years to become a free agent so why are we talking about him now because i doubt he will be posted i thought he was going to become a free agent this year oh well.....

i still would like the yankees to take a run at him when ever he comes over from japan if his arm doesn't fall off by then.LOL.

[Matsui55]

We are very likely to see Matsuzaka and a number of remaining stars get posted this off-season. Many Japanese teams are just barely breaking even, if not outright losing money.

While it would seem a bad idea to pawn off the remaining assets to make money now, do not be suprised if the clubs elect to do so. There exists the possibility that the Japanese players will strike this fall. Even without a strike, it is clear that more of the best players will head to the states when they reach FA.

Since the clubs get nothing financially for a player who walks via FA to the states, more teams are exploring getting cash now for star players in order to try and lure the mid-level players to stay and play for them now. While it seems like a dumb option that will likely kill the remaining interest in the Japanese leagues, given the finances of the teams there, that may just be an inevitability anyway in about 10 years.

Selling off high-priced assets to invest in cheaper, and hopefully motivated players is a short term way to stem the bleeding. However, since most of the Yankee games are televised in Japan, many fans are now well aware that the American game has more "action" and is more exciting than the slow stoggy games in Japan. Thus, there is an growning slide in interest in the Japanese baseball game. Soccer is also to blame.

I believe that we will likely see at least 3 or 4 of the highly paid young stars of Japan get posted, if for no other reason than to give their old team a financial boost. It is the equivalent of revenue sharing here- short term, its great, but long-term, are you are doing is treading water if your fans don't buy it.

[Kulish29]

Originally posted by Matsui55
Matsuzaka is the best pitch in Japan- and has serious big game experience. He just (literally this week) turned 24, yet has already been the ace on 2 Japanese Olympic teams. In Athens, he shut out the Cuban for 8 1/3 innings.

Matsuzaka will be highly sought after, most likely by every single team with any cash. However, there is a catch. Matsuzaka only has 6 years of time in the bigs there. In Japan, you need 10 years for unrestricted FA. Therefore, Matsuzaka would have to be "posted."

Essentially, posting means that U.S. teams submit sealed, secret bids to the Japanese team- best bid wins. But that only gets you negotiation rights- you still have to sign the guy. The M's did this with Ichiro several years ago- paid Orix about $11 million just to negotiate, then another $15 million or so to sign Ichiro.

I have little doubt Matsuzaka will get similar $$. He throws in the high 90's and has been a big winner. The negative- he's short- maybe 6'0" on a good day. Then again, Pedro and Wagner have had no problems with being short.

If Matsuzaka comes here, he's a #2 starter immediately for many clubs, though he might not be more than a #3 for the Yanks or Sox.

From what I've read, he'll be posted. If George's baseball people tell him that Matsuzaka is a good idea then he'll pay out the wazoo. The only hitch I see is, after the Irabu incident, does George want another Japanese pitcher?

[Matsui55]

Matsuzaka was dominant in his performance against the ML All-Stars- beat them 5-1, with a complete game performance. Bet that got some attention around the league.

[matt27]

a better option than milton, leiter, etc?

[mbn007]

Originally posted by matt27
a better option than milton, leiter, etc?

Maybe not, since he's a righty. But something to keep an eye on, no doubt .

[iamherring]

Seems like it's got significant potential from a business perspective. The Yanks make a ton on Japanese coverage of Matsui, which elevates his value significantly.
Maybe cornering that market is a strategy that should be looked into.

[Michaels07]

Ah so, Yankees will soon have company for Matsui.

[Yanks21]

This kid is supposedly a BEAST. It will take an Ichiro type of posting ($10 million) just to win the chance to negotiate. He tossed a complete game, 5 hitter against the MLB All-Stars last week. The gyroball he throws will probably make him a star...

[Kulish29]

Originally posted by Yanks21
This kid is supposedly a BEAST. It will take an Ichiro type of posting ($10 million) just to win the chance to negotiate. He tossed a complete game, 5 hitter against the MLB All-Stars last week. The gyroball he throws will probably make him a star...

Only thing I'm worried about is the extreme overuse on that arm of his. Other than that, he looks promising.

[sugmasterflex]

Originally posted by Yanks21
This kid is supposedly a BEAST. It will take an Ichiro type of posting ($10 million) just to win the chance to negotiate. He tossed a complete game, 5 hitter against the MLB All-Stars last week. The gyroball he throws will probably make him a star...

How big is he (weight, height) and how many Ks did he have against the MLB All-Stars?

The one thing I would worry about him is the amount of abuse his arm has taken thus far.

[Yanks21]

Originally posted by sugmasterflex


How big is he (weight, height) and how many Ks did he have against the MLB All-Stars?

The one thing I would worry about him is the amount of abuse his arm has taken thus far.

He's approximately 5'11, 190. He struck out 6, and walked none...

[mbn007]

Originally posted by Yanks21


He's approximately 5'11, 190. He struck out 6, and walked none...

Not that big, but not a Ron Guidry - Pedro Martinez frame either.

[Matsui55]

Remember, in Japan, most clubs are owed by corporations. Seibu is actually a large supermarket/ department store chain. If you need a point of reference, think SuperTarget or SuperWalMart.

The point is, like many other companies in Japan's down ecomony, Seibu has not done well at all. They may be looking for a big cash infusion by next year.

That said, I don't think anyone will get posted by Japanese teams this year for two reasons.

One, the owners were very unhappy that the players put them over the barrel with their mini-strike this summer, so they may be a little more than spiteful this winter.

Two, politically, it may be impossible to sell off stars when the owners made the argument that they needed to contract two teams to save the league. Many commentators asked, correctly,what is left to save if they just sell off their best to the U.S.? In light of that, they may be forced to sit on their hands for a year.

The Japanese league is adding a new team this year, but after the acclimation period next year, expect a flurry of movement in late 2005 to the U.S.