Rob Neyer is an idiot

[Choate]

look at his columns headlining espn's mlb section right now. he's attempting to list every franchise's all time team, but all he's succeding in doing is making himself look like an idiot.
i'm not even going to get into the Joe D vs the Mick argument, but he gives the starting catcher's job to Yogi without even mentioning Bill Dickey. Dickey has a higher career batting average, obp and slg, even when you adjust for the different era's that they played in. also, by Yogi's own admission, Dickey was a much better defensive catcher and game caller than he was. despite this dickey doesn't even get mentioned.

we got off lightly though, Neyer also failed to even mention TWO OF THE THREE MOST DOMINANT PITCHERS OF ALL TIME. lefty grove? not mentioned for either the A's or sox, despite 300 wins, a .680 career WP% and back to back triple crowns, limiting the batters he faced to a .220 average against him in 2 years when the league averaged a .300 average. he halso failed to mention Walter Johnson, only the 2nd winningest pitcher of all time, still in the top 10 career K's despite playing in the deadball era.

[koko]

and Mark McGwire over Jimmie Foxx for the A's 1B, come on!!

[Choate]

at least Foxx got mentioned for the redsux. Grove was completely ignored.

[koko]

I still can't believe it ... Foxx had some MONSTER years for the A's

[C. Bellinger]

Things make more sense when you read Neyer's book (I flipped through it for a while in a bookstore), which has the lineups plus a lot more (my favorite are the near stream-of-consciousness sidebar aticles):

Dickey was a great catcher, but Yogi was better. Dickey makes the Second All-Time Team, the "B" Team.

The Athletics team on the website is for the OAKLAND Athletics. That is why Foxx isn't on there or Grove or Cochrane or whoever. In the book, Neyer has different lists for the New York Giants, the Philadelphia Athletics, etcetera.

[koko]

Originally posted by C. Bellinger


The Athletics team on the website is for the OAKLAND Athletics. That is why Foxx isn't on there or Grove or Cochrane or whoever

A ha, that make MUCH more sense...

[C. Bellinger]

Here's the Yankee Lists Neyer puts out

ALL-TIME TEAM
DH: Don Baylor
C: Yogi
1B: Gehrig
2B: Tony Lazzeri
SS: Jeter
3B: Nettles
LF: Charlie Keller
CF: Mickey
RF: The Babe * (asterisk indicates best player)

Pitching Staff
Whitey Ford
Red Ruffing
Ron Guidry
Lefty Gomez
CP: Mariano Rivera

ALL-TIME "B" TEAM
DH: Tartabull
C: Dickey
1B: Donnie Baseball
2B: Willie Randolph
SS: Phil Rizzuto (the Yankees infield is remarkably easy to pick)
3B: Red Rolfe
LF: Roy White
CF: DiMaggio *
RF: Reggie

Pitching Stafff
Allie Reynolds
Eddie Lopat
Bob Shawkey
Mel Stottlemyre
CP: Goose Gossage

SINGLE SEASON TEAM
DH: 83 Baylor
C: 54 Yogi
1B: 27 Gehrig
2B: 42 Gordon (hmm...)
SS: 50 Rizzuto (I guess)
3B: 39 Rolfe
LF: 21 Ruth (easy) *
CF: 56 Mantle (easy)
RF: 20 Ruth
P: 04 Jack Chesbro (easy if esoteric)
CP: 49 Joe Page (in context yes)

ALL-ROOKIE TEAM
DH: 90 Kevin Maas
C: 70 Munson
1B: 25 Gehrig
2B: 26 Lazzeri
SS: 62 Tom Tresh
3B: 43 Billy Johnson
LF: 36 DiMaggio *
CF: 25 Earle Combs
RF: 20 Meusel
P: 10 Russ Ford (interesting pick, but good one instead of the tempting 50 Whitey)
RP: 27 Wilcy Moore

ALL HOMEGROWN TEAM
DH: Ron Blomberg (first DH)
C: Yogi
1B: Gehrig
2B: Joe Gordon
SS: Jeter
3B: Rolfe
LF: Roy White
CF: Mick *
RF: Keller
SP: Whitey Ford
RP: Mariano Rivera

ALL TRADED TEAM (no Jay Buhner, by the way)
DH: Cliff Johnson for Don Hood
C: Muddy Ruel (and Del Pratt) for Waite Hoyt and Wally Schang (ha ha ha, what a steal!)
1B: Fred McGriff (and Dave Collins, Mike Morgan, and cash) for Tom Dodd and Dale Murray (yikes) *
2B: Jerry Lumpe
SS: Greg Gagne (and others) for Roy Smalley
3B: Mike Lowell (of course)
LF: Lefty O'Doul
CF: Willie McGee (for Bob Sykes, ouch)
RF: Jackie Jensen
SP: Lew Burdette (with cash for Johnny Sain, ouch)
RP: Tippy Martinez (as part of deal that included Rick Dempsey and Scott McGregor)

GOLD GLOVE TEAM
C: Dickey
1B: Tino Martinez
2B: Joe Gordon
SS: Rizzuto
3B: Clete Boyer *
LF: Roy White
CF: DiMaggio
RF: Paul O'Neill
P: Bobby Shantz

IRON GLOVE TEAM (bad defense)
C: Matt Nokes
1B: Ron Blomberg
2B: Chuck Knoblauch (ha ha ha)
SS: Tom Tresh
3B: Ben Chapman
LF: Chuck Knoblauch *
CF: Joe Pepitone
RF: old Babe Ruth
P: Rudy May

ALL-BUST TEAM
DH: Ken Phelps (Jay Buhner deal)
C: Jake Gibbs
1B: Johnny Sturm
2B: Earle Gardner
SS: Rafael Santana
3B: Rich McKinney
LF: Steve Kemp *
CF: Bill Robinson
RF: Curt Blefary
SP: Brien Taylor
RP: Wilcy Moore

USED-TO-BE-GREAT TEAM
DH: Darryl Strawberry
C: Wilbert Robinson (actually an Oriole)
1B: John Mayberry
2B: Sandy Alomar
SS: Bert Campaneris
3B: Wade Boggs *
LF: Enos Slaughter
CF: Claudell Washington
RF: Ken Griffey Jr.
SP: Gaylord Perry
CP: Jim Konstanty

ALL-NAME TEAM
Manager: "The Old Professor" Casey
DH: Mike "The Hit Man" Easler
C: "Yogi"
1B: "Iron Horse"
2B: "Poosh 'em Up" Lazzeri
SS: "Scooter"
3B: "Jumping Joe" Dugan
LF: "Twinkletoes" Selkirk (over King Kong?)
CF: "Yankee Clipper"
RF: "Mr. October"
SP: "Louisiana Lightning"
RP: "Grandma" Johnny Murphy

TOP FIVE SEASONS
1. 1998
2. 1927
3. 1939
4. 1923
5. 1937

TOP MANAGERS
1. Casey Stengel
2. Joe McCarthy
3. Miller Huggins
4. Joe Torre
5. Billy Martin

[koko]

How do you leave Mattingly off the Gold Glove team?

[C. Bellinger]

Why Tino over Donnie?

"A big upset over Mattingly, but Tino's numbers are so much better that I just couldn't go with the safe pick."

*BTW, Neyer enjoys not picking the safe pick. Lou Boudreau is the Tribe's Gold Glove Shortstop, not Omar. It's Trot Nixon, not Dwight Evans for the BoSox's Gold Glove Right Fielder. It's Phil Niekro, not Greg Maddux for Atlanta Brave's Gold Glove Pitcher (methinks Neyer takes into account pickoff moves too much for the Gold Glove).

Thankfully, he doesn't pull a McCarver and put Scott Rolen over Mike Schmidt (and in fact, Rolen doesn't make the Phillies' A or B team, although he had to compete with Schmidt AND Dick Allen...).