View Poll Results: Which Mariano Rivera record will stand the test of time the longest?

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  • 652 Regular season saves

    12 21.43%
  • 42 Post Season Saves

    44 78.57%
  • 4 Allstar Game Saves

    0 0%
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  1. #26

    Re: Which Mariano Rivera record will stand the test of time...?

    Quote Originally Posted by BronxYanks45 View Post
    I have a fear Kimbrel will get close to 652 career saves, I mean he's 25 yrs old now and already has 139 saves
    At this point, he would definitely be the one to watch. One thing working against him (and of course it works for him too) is that he's a very hard thrower. His risk of injury is not insignificant. Of course, Billy Wagner was a hard thrower too and he had a long, although not injury free, career. I was surprised to see that Wagner had a career 0.998 WHIP - better than Rivera's - although he didn't reach the 1000 IP mark (903) that is typically used as the cut-off point for all-time pitching records.

    Kimbrel has a WHIP of 0.902 in 227 IP thus far. Very impressive indeed.
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  2. #27
    God Bless the Scooter NYYFAN's Avatar
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    Re: Which Mariano Rivera record will stand the test of time...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Man View Post
    At this point, he would definitely be the one to watch. One thing working against him (and of course it works for him too) is that he's a very hard thrower. His risk of injury is not insignificant. Of course, Billy Wagner was a hard thrower too and he had a long, although not injury free, career. I was surprised to see that Wagner had a career 0.998 WHIP - better than Rivera's - although he didn't reach the 1000 IP mark (903) that is typically used as the cut-off point for all-time pitching records.

    Kimbrel has a WHIP of 0.902 in 227 IP thus far. Very impressive indeed.
    I wonder what WHIP Mo had at that IP mark? You have to figure Mo's number increased as he aged.

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  3. #28

    Re: Which Mariano Rivera record will stand the test of time...?

    Quote Originally Posted by NYYFAN View Post
    I wonder what WHIP Mo had at that IP mark? You have to figure Mo's number increased as he aged.
    Actually it was worse, because at the very beginning he was an ineffective starter. But even if you exclude 1995, it was worse. From 1996 - 1998, through 240 innings his WHIP was 1.068. And for his career his WHIP actually improved as he got older. He had a WHIP below 1 in five of his last 6 seasons, compared to five of his first 12 seasons (again, excluding 1995).

  4. #29
    Bazinga Hitman23's Avatar
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    Re: Which Mariano Rivera record will stand the test of time...?

    Considering the job as closer is really the most up-for-grabs job every year I do not see his record being broken. It's extremely unlikely to me. Of course the post season saves is most likely an unbreakable record as well but for the same reasons which is why I voted otherwise. We have not seen a guy last as long as a closer as him during his career and with the way baseball is right now I don't think we will again. Guys like Kimbrel can actually have stretches considered better than Mo's but as a career I don't see it happening. I think we witnessed the best there ever was and will be.
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  5. #30
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    Re: Which Mariano Rivera record will stand the test of time...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman23 View Post
    Considering the job as closer is really the most up-for-grabs job every year I do not see his record being broken. It's extremely unlikely to me. Of course the post season saves is most likely an unbreakable record as well but for the same reasons which is why I voted otherwise. We have not seen a guy last as long as a closer as him during his career and with the way baseball is right now I don't think we will again. Guys like Kimbrel can actually have stretches considered better than Mo's but as a career I don't see it happening. I think we witnessed the best there ever was and will be.

    Good points. Also, who knows how the closer role will evolve as time goes on. It certainly isn't the same now as it was in the late 70's. That wasn't that long ago.
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  6. #31
    Crow,Tony,Joe,Yogi,Riz,2 Joes Tifoso's Avatar
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    Re: Which Mariano Rivera record will stand the test of time...?

    I think that they all will. Certainly the PS Saves Record is absolutely untouchable.
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  7. #32
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    Re: Which Mariano Rivera record will stand the test of time...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tifoso View Post
    I think that they all will. Certainly the PS Saves Record is absolutely untouchable.
    In 20 or 30 years, maybe 24 teams qualify for the playoffs, which will go five rounds and last 7 weeks. THAT would certainly change things. The regular season will not grow much beyond 162 games, and may well go the other way. That is why I voted regular season wins. Any of those records will take a very long time to break, so potential changes in the landscape become significant.
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  8. #33
    Crow,Tony,Joe,Yogi,Riz,2 Joes Tifoso's Avatar
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    Re: Which Mariano Rivera record will stand the test of time...?

    Quote Originally Posted by theDurk View Post
    In 20 or 30 years, maybe 24 teams qualify for the playoffs, which will go five rounds and last 7 weeks. THAT would certainly change things. The regular season will not grow much beyond 162 games, and may well go the other way. That is why I voted regular season wins. Any of those records will take a very long time to break, so potential changes in the landscape become significant.

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  9. #34
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    Re: Which Mariano Rivera record will stand the test of time...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman23 View Post
    Considering the job as closer is really the most up-for-grabs job every year I do not see his record being broken. It's extremely unlikely to me. Of course the post season saves is most likely an unbreakable record as well but for the same reasons which is why I voted otherwise. We have not seen a guy last as long as a closer as him during his career and with the way baseball is right now I don't think we will again. Guys like Kimbrel can actually have stretches considered better than Mo's but as a career I don't see it happening. I think we witnessed the best there ever was and will be.
    The RS record, though I think only a significant playoff expansion could pose a threat to the PS record.

    The key point here indeed is that, most years, Mo was not necessarily the best closer in that particular year, but that, overall, for the extended period of 19 years (I count 1995 as relief work for Mo, because of his awesome September/October work that year), he was absolutely the best. A lot of pitchers can be great closers for a handful of years, but then they either blow their arms out, or they stop taking roids, or something else happens. For someone to break Mo's RS record, though, someone will need to average over 40 saves a year for 16 years, bearing in mind that even Mo only had 16 full seasons as a closer.

  10. #35
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    Re: Which Mariano Rivera record will stand the test of time...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mxylsplk View Post
    Actually it was worse, because at the very beginning he was an ineffective starter. But even if you exclude 1995, it was worse. From 1996 - 1998, through 240 innings his WHIP was 1.068. And for his career his WHIP actually improved as he got older. He had a WHIP below 1 in five of his last 6 seasons, compared to five of his first 12 seasons (again, excluding 1995).
    Thanks...I forgot about his few starts.

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  11. #36
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    Re: Which Mariano Rivera record will stand the test of time...?

    Quote Originally Posted by RBWms View Post
    For someone to break Mo's RS record, though, someone will need to average over 40 saves a year for 16 years, bearing in mind that even Mo only had 16 full seasons as a closer.
    In MLB history, only Rivera had 16 seasons where he was a full-time (15+ saves in a season) closer.

    Hoffman had 15 such seasons.

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  12. #37
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    Re: Which Mariano Rivera record will stand the test of time...?

    Those 42 post season saves are like DiMaggio's 56 straight games hitting streak....they both will never be broken.

  13. #38

    Re: Which Mariano Rivera record will stand the test of time...?

    those 3 records will fall, but his 0.70 postseason ERA might last forever

  14. #39
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    Re: Which Mariano Rivera record will stand the test of time...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty one View Post
    Those 42 post season saves are like DiMaggio's 56 straight games hitting streak....they both will never be broken.
    Seems they said the same thing about Lou's record......even Babe's.

  15. #40
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    Re: Which Mariano Rivera record will stand the test of time...?

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.roy View Post
    Seems they said the same thing about Lou's record......even Babe's.
    I could see an argument for Gehrig's record not being broken before it was, but you had to know both of Ruth's records were going to be broken. Even as a kid when Maris and Aaron held theirs I knew they'd be broken.
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  16. #41

    Re: Which Mariano Rivera record will stand the test of time...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman23 View Post
    I could see an argument for Gehrig's record not being broken before it was, but you had to know both of Ruth's records were going to be broken. Even as a kid when Maris and Aaron held theirs I knew they'd be broken.
    Cy Young's all-time win total is pretty much a lock.
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  17. #42
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    Re: Which Mariano Rivera record will stand the test of time...?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredgmuggs View Post
    Cy Young's all-time win total is pretty much a lock.
    as well as his loss total.....
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  18. #43
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    Re: Which Mariano Rivera record will stand the test of time...?

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    as well as his loss total.....
    and his innings pitched (7356) and complete games (749!), and Walter Johnsons shutouts (110). All those old timey counting stats for pitchers will never be broken.

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