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Thread: Masahiro Tanaka

  1. #976
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    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    These Steinbrenner's aren't risking anything. The choice simply something like "do we bank 100 million in profit this year or do we bank 50 million"
    Exactly. NO ONE is risking their own personal fortune here, not even close.
    Goin for 2<strike>7</strike>8!

  2. #977
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixwell View Post
    Not sure what's hard to understand about the fact that 30 teams aren't getting the same amounts. In fact, about half of them don't get anything, they net lose of the revenue sharing. The rest get millions, not billions. If you don't think a handful of million is meaningful to the Pittsburghs and Miamis of the world, you just haven't been paying attention.

    What's more, this is about principals as much as it as about money.
    Except, as I and others have explained, it's not that this money is getting disbursed to the teams. It's most likely their promotional campaigns flex to the amount of money they have each year, so it's likely only the benefit money that is relevant, and even that wouldn't be a direct relationship to the revenue - unless you somehow believe MLB is running on a shoestring budget.

    Moreover, Miami is a great example, because I believe MLB had to call them out specifically in the revenue sharing agreement because they were pocketing the money they were taking in; I don't think the problem there is revenue.
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  3. #978

    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by jeterrules View Post
    And i had no doubt the Yankees would get him till they changed the rules. They changed them because they knew the Yankees would bid like 100MIL to make sire to get him. And it pissed the small owners off. They had no problem back when Boston and Texas did it. But when they knew the Yankees would bingo lets change the rules.

    You're ridiculous

  4. #979
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    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by CalYankeeFan View Post
    I wouldn't base anything, not even a hypothetical discussion, on the possibility of landing Kershaw. He wants to stay in LA, he likes LA, LA loves him. He's not going anywhere.
    Yes, with my comment that's the type of hypothetical discussion I wanted to squash.

  5. #980

    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Word is Tanaka will not be posted, so congratulations to MLB for successfully keeping him away from the Yankees.
    "Owning the Yankees is like owning the Mona Lisa." -- George M. Steinbrenner III

  6. #981
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    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by Battingly View Post
    Word is Tanaka will not be posted, so congratulations to MLB for successfully keeping him away from the Yankees.
    You sound paranoid.

  7. #982

    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by Battingly View Post
    Word is Tanaka will not be posted, so congratulations to MLB for successfully keeping him away from the Yankees.
    Seriously, warped priorities on MLB part. How is attracting the top international talent not the top priority? 20M will be a big restriction not just for Tanaka but many more elite NPB talent.

    I do not blame Rakuten at all. They likely stand to make more money keeping him and going for another championship.

    Selig strikes again. Can't wait until he is done.

  8. #983
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    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by primetime714 View Post
    Seriously, warped priorities on MLB part. How is attracting the top international talent not the top priority? 20M will be a big restriction not just for Tanaka but many more elite NPB talent.

    I do not blame Rakuten at all. They likely stand to make more money keeping him and going for another championship.

    Selig strikes again. Can't wait until he is done.
    11 NPB teams other than Rakuten approve it. It's clear that NPB want to keep their top players. For big market team like the Giants or Hawks, they wouldn't post their top players anyway.

  9. #984
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    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    11 NPB teams other than Rakuten approve it. It's clear that NPB want to keep their top players. For big market team like the Giants or Hawks, they wouldn't post their top players anyway.
    But what is the advantage to MLB, other than limiting big market teams? Sure, the teams save money on posting fees... but pay it out in contracts anyway. And now they get less international talent. I haven't heard real reasoning for why MLB would be in favor, unless they did not have leverage in this negotiation

  10. #985
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    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Limiting the big market teams (specifically the Yankees) is all MLB wants.
    When Texas threw that big posting number out for Darvish to gain the exclusive negotiating rights followed by the contract, it was as signal to MLB.
    The Yankees could bid huge money on posts from Japan and then get away with a not so rich contract because of the exclusivity of the negotiations which in turn, helps the team.
    So, Selig and company conjured up a system that would force the larger market teams to spend more money on Japanese players to boost up their payrolls and tax threshold levels.
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

  11. #986
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    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    The Rakuten Golden Eagles are signing Kevin Youkilis. Part of me wants to hope they're signing him as a way to bring in some extra fans because they decided to post Tanaka. Not that Youkilis is a household name or anything over there but still.

  12. #987
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    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    Limiting the big market teams (specifically the Yankees) is all MLB wants.
    When Texas threw that big posting number out for Darvish to gain the exclusive negotiating rights followed by the contract, it was as signal to MLB.
    The Yankees could bid huge money on posts from Japan and then get away with a not so rich contract because of the exclusivity of the negotiations which in turn, helps the team.
    So, Selig and company conjured up a system that would force the larger market teams to spend more money on Japanese players to boost up their payrolls and tax threshold levels.
    But this results in less talent in MLB. As much as everyone loves "competitive balance", I'm not sure they wanted that outcome

  13. #988
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    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace View Post
    But this results in less talent in MLB. As much as everyone loves "competitive balance", I'm not sure they wanted that outcome
    Selig and Co. are so blinded by limiting large market teams (ie., the Yankees) that they didn't think ahead on this one.
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

  14. #989

    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    Selig and Co. are so blinded by limiting large market teams (ie., the Yankees) that they didn't think ahead on this one.
    Interesting that some of you guys are viewing the $20 million cap as limiting large market teams. To me, this is a godsend for the large market teams.

    Teams, like the Yanks, are now guaranteed to be included in the bidding for the max posting bid of $20 million. After that, it replicates a free agent market between the teams. Small market teams will now have to compete directly with the Yanks, and they'll be at a big disadvantage.

    In addition, I'm of the belief that the Yanks are one of the most desirable teams to play for, from a Japanese player's viewpoint. That can also help them in contract negotiations, when hypothetically going up against the Royals or DBacks.

    While I wanted Darvish to be on the Yanks, I knew the uncertainty of the posting bids would work against them. On the other hand, the new changes have me much more confident that NY can sign Tanaka.

  15. #990
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    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by melon View Post
    Interesting that some of you guys are viewing the $20 million cap as limiting large market teams. To me, this is a godsend for the large market teams.

    Teams, like the Yanks, are now guaranteed to be included in the bidding for the max posting bid of $20 million. After that, it replicates a free agent market between the teams. Small market teams will now have to compete directly with the Yanks, and they'll be at a big disadvantage.

    In addition, I'm of the belief that the Yanks are one of the most desirable teams to play for, from a Japanese player's viewpoint. That can also help them in contract negotiations, when hypothetically going up against the Royals or DBacks.

    While I wanted Darvish to be on the Yanks, I knew the uncertainty of the posting bids would work against them. On the other hand, the new changes have me much more confident that NY can sign Tanaka.
    Well argued, and I agree. The new system guarantees that we are players. The old one did not. I like our chances (if he is indeed posted, obviously).
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  16. #991
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    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by melon View Post
    Interesting that some of you guys are viewing the $20 million cap as limiting large market teams. To me, this is a godsend for the large market teams.

    Teams, like the Yanks, are now guaranteed to be included in the bidding for the max posting bid of $20 million. After that, it replicates a free agent market between the teams. Small market teams will now have to compete directly with the Yanks, and they'll be at a big disadvantage.

    In addition, I'm of the belief that the Yanks are one of the most desirable teams to play for, from a Japanese player's viewpoint. That can also help them in contract negotiations, when hypothetically going up against the Royals or DBacks.

    While I wanted Darvish to be on the Yanks, I knew the uncertainty of the posting bids would work against them. On the other hand, the new changes have me much more confident that NY can sign Tanaka.
    Again, this is an advantage for MLB and less for large market teams.
    More money going towards luxury tax thresholds and further strapping larger salaried teams with player contracts.
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

  17. #992
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by melon View Post
    Interesting that some of you guys are viewing the $20 million cap as limiting large market teams. To me, this is a godsend for the large market teams.

    Teams, like the Yanks, are now guaranteed to be included in the bidding for the max posting bid of $20 million. After that, it replicates a free agent market between the teams. Small market teams will now have to compete directly with the Yanks, and they'll be at a big disadvantage.

    In addition, I'm of the belief that the Yanks are one of the most desirable teams to play for, from a Japanese player's viewpoint. That can also help them in contract negotiations, when hypothetically going up against the Royals or DBacks.

    While I wanted Darvish to be on the Yanks, I knew the uncertainty of the posting bids would work against them. On the other hand, the new changes have me much more confident that NY can sign Tanaka.
    The Yankees knew the bid they submitted for Darvish wasn't likely to get him. I don't think the system was the issue there -- it was the organization's confidence in his talent.

    I've never been a fan of the blind posting system, but I think people are reacting to the impact on this specific consequence of the new system (Rakuten holding back Tanaka) vs. a broader commentary on the new posting process.

    Of course, I think it's likely that the $20 million limit will change the value proposition for Japanese teams overall, and it's likely that they keep their star players at home for longer going forward.
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  18. #993

    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    Again, this is an advantage for MLB and less for large market teams.
    More money going towards luxury tax thresholds and further strapping larger salaried teams with player contracts.
    In this aspect, I see your point.

  19. #994
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    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Fan in Boston View Post
    Of course, I think it's likely that the $20 million limit will change the value proposition for Japanese teams overall, and it's likely that they keep their star players at home for longer going forward.
    Absolutely agree - given that the maximum value that the Japanese team can realize is fixed at $20M, I suspect that most players will not be posted until their last year under NPB control instead of two or more seasons.

    No economic reason for the Japanese team (including the Eagles with Tanaka) to forego the extra seasons.
    Forgive me for taking the Contrarian view

  20. #995

    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Anyone know what the ramifications are for breech of contract in NPB? What would keep Tanaka from just walking away? Does MLB have to honor existing NPB contracts? I'm sure there would be a monetary penalty for breaking the contract, but how much could that be compared to what he's going to make in MLB.

  21. #996
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    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Really would like to hear some perspective from the Japanese reporters that cover their leagues. How common is it for teams to block players once they announce their desires? My understanding (granted third hand) is that teams are usually very reluctant blocking players from being posted once they announce their wishes. Tanaka's case is unique in that he's not only the biggest star, it's the the first year under this new agreement. Somehow I think he'll still be posted whether other Japanese teams kick in some $$ or somehow Tanaka 'kicks back' some $$.

  22. #997
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    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees61 View Post
    Anyone know what the ramifications are for breech of contract in NPB? What would keep Tanaka from just walking away? Does MLB have to honor existing NPB contracts? I'm sure there would be a monetary penalty for breaking the contract, but how much could that be compared to what he's going to make in MLB.
    That would never happen over there. They would "lose face" and all that. It's a totally different culture. I don't want to say Japanese are more respectful but I'm not sure what the word I'm looking for is. But I can't picture players holding out or walking away due to unhappiness unless some super shady stuff was going on.

  23. #998

    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Fan in Boston View Post
    The Yankees knew the bid they submitted for Darvish wasn't likely to get him. I don't think the system was the issue there -- it was the organization's confidence in his talent.

    I've never been a fan of the blind posting system, but I think people are reacting to the impact on this specific consequence of the new system (Rakuten holding back Tanaka) vs. a broader commentary on the new posting process.

    Of course, I think it's likely that the $20 million limit will change the value proposition for Japanese teams overall, and it's likely that they keep their star players at home for longer going forward.
    No, it was overconfidence in Pineda and not wanting to spend the 100M for him.
    Okay Hal and Brian, I might be a sucker, but you got 3 more years to fix it!

  24. #999

    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees61 View Post
    Anyone know what the ramifications are for breech of contract in NPB? What would keep Tanaka from just walking away? Does MLB have to honor existing NPB contracts? I'm sure there would be a monetary penalty for breaking the contract, but how much could that be compared to what he's going to make in MLB.
    MLB agreed to honor it after Irabu "retired" from NPB to sign with MLB.

  25. #1000
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    Re: Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    MLB agreed to honor it after Irabu "retired" from NPB to sign with MLB.
    Soriano retired after Nomo & Irabu pulled the same trick - it was not until after that event that MLB agreed to honor NPB contracts, I believe.
    Forgive me for taking the Contrarian view

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