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  1. #5401

    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RogerNatural View Post
    Ok... so, who's playing 3B next year that will be an improvement ? And, what does that have to do with the pitching, which has crapped the bed, & is solely the reason for the late season collapse ?
    It's an issue of numbers. This team will have the following needs next year- three starting pitchers, 1-2 outfielders, a shortstop, possibly a C, a few bullpen slots, and possibly a 2B if Cano leaves. Forgetting about ARod for a second, two of the players currently under contract for big money (CC and Tex) are in varying degrees of decline. You can argue about what kind of difference ARod is going to make on the field at this point of his career, but IMHO you cannot argue plausibly that he is singlehandedly going to make up for having to fill multiple positions and rotation slots with a bunch of extremely marginal players (think Jayson Nix and Adam Warren types being regular players/starters) which is precisely what the team will have to do to get under 189. With an additional $27.5 MM, from his suspension, we would have a chance to spend some money and field a potentially competitive team in 2014. Facts are stubborn things.

    Basically, it's a potentially marginally above-average 3B on a decidedly below average team, versus a potentially competitive team in 2014. It hinges on ARod's suspension. I'll take the latter choice.

  2. #5402

    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFan1421 View Post
    On this, I actually agree with you. I presume you are including me in this group, and you're right. I've completely lost interest in the Yankees this year, for the first time in 30+ years of rooting for them, and it's mainly due to watching this drugged out phony 'compete'.

    I'm not 12 years old where just seeing a guy in a Yankee uniform makes me excited, regardless of how fake it is. It's really just a question of maturity and taste, I suppose.

    Good for you if you're enjoying ARod's performance.
    You're outdoing yourself. No easy feat.

  3. #5403

    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    kevin youkilis lel
    always reasonable

  4. #5404
    Brien "The Incident" just-blaze's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bomber999 View Post
    It's an issue of numbers. This team will have the following needs next year- three starting pitchers, 1-2 outfielders, a shortstop, possibly a C, a few bullpen slots, and possibly a 2B if Cano leaves. Forgetting about ARod for a second, two of the players currently under contract for big money (CC and Tex) are in varying degrees of decline. You can argue about what kind of difference ARod is going to make on the field at this point of his career, but IMHO you cannot argue plausibly that he is singlehandedly going to make up for having to fill multiple positions and rotation slots with a bunch of extremely marginal players (think Jayson Nix and Adam Warren types being regular players/starters) which is precisely what the team will have to do to get under 189. With an additional $27.5 MM, from his suspension, we would have a chance to spend some money and field a potentially competitive team in 2014. Facts are stubborn things.

    Basically, it's a potentially marginally above-average 3B on a decidedly below average team, versus a potentially competitive team in 2014. It hinges on ARod's suspension. I'll take the latter choice.
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  5. #5405
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bomber999 View Post
    Well, the numbers suggest that, if he does not get suspended, the Yankees have an approximately 0% chance of fielding a competitive team next season. Is that worth the joy of watching him play next season?
    What is your plan for fielding a competitive team without him? Not just "spend the money on other players," but whom do you expect to get that will make the team competitive?

    And how does Rodriguez make the difference? The problem isn't his salary, it's the team's insistence on getting below $189M.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  6. #5406

    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFan1421 View Post
    On this, I actually agree with you. I presume you are including me in this group, and you're right. I've completely lost interest in the Yankees this year, for the first time in 30+ years of rooting for them, and it's mainly due to watching this drugged out phony 'compete'.

    I'm not 12 years old where just seeing a guy in a Yankee uniform makes me excited, regardless of how fake it is. It's really just a question of maturity and taste, I suppose.

    Good for you if you're enjoying ARod's performance.
    If A-Rod wasn't hitting, you'd be the first one in here squawking and telling everyone how you knew he'd be nothing more than a replacement player at this point. Remember that prediction? The first bad game he had you ran in here making a PED joke.

    Your obsession with and hatred of A-Rod has been your overriding interest the whole time, so it's really not surprising that in a season where he's doing well but the team isn't that you'd bail. You literally talk about nothing else but A-Rod here, and since you can't get on him because he's hitting you have nothing to say. You're a one-trick pony.
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  7. #5407
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    What is your plan for fielding a competitive team without him? Not just "spend the money on other players," but whom do you expect to get that will make the team competitive?

    And how does Rodriguez make the difference? The problem isn't his salary, it's the team's insistence on getting below $189M.
    I don't think that the Yanks will field a competitive team next year. That said, I would still like to see the "most competitive" team possible, since there are really no position play youngsters to start the year with and get them experience.

    ARod's salary IS part of the problem.

    Let's say that you can get a Michael Young type on a one year deal. This would be a drop off in performance compared to ARod., lets say you take $15M and get two or three solid relievers, or a solid reliever and cut Wells and get a solid OF'er. You could do all of that for the same $$ as ARod, which could net more value.

    I am pretty sure if you asked Cashman, he would prefer to use as much of ARod's salary next year towards multiple players.

    The concern of course is that they simply lower payroll by finding a Young type to play 3B, and pocket the extra money to drive down payroll.

    End of the day though, they need someone to play 3B for probably at least 100 games, so may as well start figuring that out.
    Goin for 2<strike>7</strike>8!

  8. #5408

    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    If A-Rod wasn't hitting, you'd be the first one in here squawking and telling everyone how you knew he'd be nothing more than a replacement player at this point. Remember that prediction? The first bad game he had you ran in here making a PED joke.

    Your obsession with and hatred of A-Rod has been your overriding interest the whole time, so it's really not surprising that in a season where he's doing well but the team isn't that you'd bail. You literally talk about nothing else but A-Rod here, and since you can't get on him because he's hitting you have nothing to say. You're a one-trick pony.
    I've said more than once that ARod has done better than I expected and predicted he would. He has. I thought between the expected suspension and the hip surgery, that his chances of coming back and being more than a replacement player for any period of time were very small. Obviously, he's been better than a replacement player for a month or so now.

    And, yes, I've made a number of ARod and PED jokes. I don't like him and i don't like him on the Yankees. I'm sorry that irks you so much. Like you, he's a pretty easy target.

  9. #5409
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by goin for 27 View Post
    I don't think that the Yanks will field a competitive team next year. That said, I would still like to see the "most competitive" team possible, since there are really no position play youngsters to start the year with and get them experience.

    ARod's salary IS part of the problem.

    Let's say that you can get a Michael Young type on a one year deal. This would be a drop off in performance compared to ARod., lets say you take $15M and get two or three solid relievers, or a solid reliever and cut Wells and get a solid OF'er. You could do all of that for the same $$ as ARod, which could net more value.

    I am pretty sure if you asked Cashman, he would prefer to use as much of ARod's salary next year towards multiple players.

    The concern of course is that they simply lower payroll by finding a Young type to play 3B, and pocket the extra money to drive down payroll.

    End of the day though, they need someone to play 3B for probably at least 100 games, so may as well start figuring that out.
    Rodriguez's salary is still not the problem, the insistence on getting under $189M is. They could still get those pitchers, they just couldn't stay under the cap while doing it.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  10. #5410

    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFan1421 View Post
    I've said more than once that ARod has done better than I expected and predicted he would. He has. I thought between the expected suspension and the hip surgery, that his chances of coming back and being more than a replacement player for any period of time were very small. Obviously, he's been better than a replacement player for a month or so now.
    Really? Where'd you say that?

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFan1421 View Post
    And, yes, I've made a number of ARod and PED jokes. I don't like him and i don't like him on the Yankees. I'm sorry that irks you so much. Like you, he's a pretty easy target.
    How come you didn't bail on the team before the 2009 season when he first admitted use? Now that they're a long shot to make the playoffs, you suddenly aren't interested in the team because of A-Rod the drugged-up phony. Pretty convenient, wouldn't you say?

    Either way, good riddance.
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  11. #5411

    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    Really? Where'd you say that?



    How come you didn't bail on the team before the 2009 season when he first admitted use? Now that they're a long shot to make the playoffs, you suddenly aren't interested in the team because of A-Rod the drugged-up phony. Pretty convenient, wouldn't you say?

    Either way, good riddance.
    I said it here, for one: http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...38#post7771138

    I didn't bail on Arod or the team in 2009 because first, I think people deserve second chances. As Pettite got, as Giambi got, etc etc. Secondly, I think people deserve to have their words taken at face value. So while I couldn't help but wonder, when ARod said he only used for a few years while with Texas, i think you pretty much have to go on that.

    I don't really understand what it is you want me to say. I acknowledge, fully, that he's playing better than I predicted. I thought he was pretty close to done as a useful player, either through suspension or breaking down physically or both. But he's been useful to the Yankees these past six weeks or whatever it's been.

    I'm not enjoying it and as a baseball fan, I would cringe to see a guy who is essentially out on bail performing in the postseason. He already made a fool of himself in the 2007 postseason with his opt out, and in many other offseasons has been inexplicably bad. We don't need another October atrocity from him.

    I know there is a lot of grey area with PED's and I'm sure I root for players who I don't know are on them. But what I do know is that Arod gave a tearful press conference and played everybody...the fans, his teammates and the media...for fools. Not the first athlete to do it and not the last one either. Coupled with the fact that to me, his 2009 postseason is now a joke, a farce (as much as Bonds career home run record is), and that I'm pretty convinced he's still using, as I don't see how he could come back from another major hip surgery at 38 years old and suddenly find the fountain of youth. Not sure why now we're supposed to believe him.

    If all that doesn't bother you, good for you. And I'm not being sarcastic when I say that. i really mean that...if you can enjoy the ride with this guy and look at this as some great story that keeps your interest...then good. Enjoy it. It's just sports. I don't know why my point of view on ARod is such a big deal with you. I don't know why you care. I don't really care what your view is, but so be it.

  12. #5412

    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    Really? Where'd you say that?



    How come you didn't bail on the team before the 2009 season when he first admitted use? Now that they're a long shot to make the playoffs, you suddenly aren't interested in the team because of A-Rod the drugged-up phony. Pretty convenient, wouldn't you say?

    Either way, good riddance.
    Oh, and that's wildly off the mark. At the beginning of this season, I was in here saying I'm actually looking forward to rooting for a team that might have to scrap and is no guarantee to make the playoffs. And probably my total height of Yankee fandom was in the darkest of years...from late 80's through early 90's when they were awful several of those years.

    You can think whatever you want, but I'm the furthest thing from a bandwagon fan, believe me.

  13. #5413

    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFan1421 View Post
    You can think whatever you want, but I'm the furthest thing from a bandwagon fan, believe me.
    Ok. See you in 2018 then.
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  14. #5414
    NYYF MVP

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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFan1421 View Post
    Coupled with the fact that to me, his 2009 postseason is now a joke, a farce (as much as Bonds career home run record is),
    I may be wrong, but was under the (strong) impression that the only drug he was 'on' in '09 was Kate Hudson. Wasn't that the year he was "clean", by all accounts?
    He'll never get another milestone like that one. So what? His whole career is a milestone. - JL25and3

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  15. #5415

    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    Ok. See you in 2018 then.
    I know I haven't posted much lately. And undoubtedly part of that is a general disgust with watching Arod and all the air he sucks out of the room.

    The other part of it is I'm busy once summer is over with work. I have other things going on.

    I just checked, and man, you are prolific. I just checked and you have posted over 10 comments every day for nearly five years!

    I assume you get 8 hours a sleep a day, leaving 16 waking hours. You have averaged more than one post every two hours, for 365 days for nearly 5 years! You must have really cleared the decks of anything else to do.

    Compared to that kind of effort, I am truly slacking. Or 'making myself scarce'. I admit, I can't compete with that kind of output.

    Incredible. Simply incredible.

    I'll keep checking to see where that number trends.

  16. #5416
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFan1421 View Post
    I know I haven't posted much lately. And undoubtedly part of that is a general disgust with watching Arod and all the air he sucks out of the room.
    I wish more Yankees would suck the air out the room with a 134 OPS. The Yanks might not be so far back it they did.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  17. #5417

    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFan1421 View Post
    I know I haven't posted much lately. And undoubtedly part of that is a general disgust with watching Arod and all the air he sucks out of the room.

    The other part of it is I'm busy once summer is over with work. I have other things going on.

    I just checked, and man, you are prolific. I just checked and you have posted over 10 comments every day for nearly five years!

    I assume you get 8 hours a sleep a day, leaving 16 waking hours. You have averaged more than one post every two hours, for 365 days for nearly 5 years! You must have really cleared the decks of anything else to do.

    Compared to that kind of effort, I am truly slacking. Or 'making myself scarce'. I admit, I can't compete with that kind of output.

    Incredible. Simply incredible.

    I'll keep checking to see where that number trends.
    I don't care if you post or not-- that's not what I was talking about.

    You said you aren't following the team anymore--not because they're doing poorly, but because of A-Rod. If that's true, then you won't be watching until he's no longer on the team. Well his contract runs through the 2017 season, so I guess we won't be seeing you until 2018, right?
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  18. #5418

    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    I don't care if you post or not-- that's not what I was talking about.

    You said you aren't following the team anymore--not because they're doing poorly, but because of A-Rod. If that's true, then you won't be watching until he's no longer on the team. Well his contract runs through the 2017 season, so I guess we won't be seeing you until 2018, right?
    Well, you did bring up my lack of posts recently. Maybe not by name, but I think by any reasonable measure you were including me in this group you were talking about, so at a minimum, you've been noticing and keeping track of my posting frequency to some level.

    yeah, if Arod is one of the main centers of attention on this team going forward in future years, I'm pretty fatigued by the whole thing and I wouldn't be surprised to see myself slipping away in terms of interest. Hopefully, the 211 game ban will hold and we won't see him until mid-2015 at the earliest...and hopefully then he'll retire and/or the Yankees will cut their ties and move on with life.

    You seem to be a pretty black and white type of thinker. I can't tell you that just because Arod is on the roster, I've completely lost interest in the Yankees for as long as that is the case. But I find the whole thing really unfortunate, sad, and ultimately boring.

    I can't explain the whole thing away because I am an NFL fan and I know PED's are much more rampant in that league. But it is a different set of stated and implied standards and pretty much we all know the score. Fair or not, that's the way it is.

    At least Bonds back in the day just defied everybody and sneered at them. He didn't give speeches, blame his cousin, join the Hooten Foundation and get doctors to call radio stations throwing his team's management under the bus. he didn't imply a big smear campaign for the masses to get all worked up about. I'd actually respect Arod a whole lot more if he just sneered at everybody and shut up about it.

    Far as I'm concerned, not a single thing the guy has ever done on the field is legit. I have no idea how good he would have been or not have been if he hadn't be using most or all of his career. As I said, in 2009, I think you put the admitted use in the early 00's into the context of the time, take him for his word that it's behind him and move on. When you find out that he's actually been cheating ever since, all the while preaching about the evils of it, I'm sorry, but I'm just sick of it and have no interest in watching the ongoing nonsense that to me is just a bunch of baloney. And, yes, it goes along with all the other ridiculous behavior and nonsense the guy is wrapped up in.

    As I said, it's just sports, so if some have no issue with it, or not enough of an issue with it to continue, then enjoy Yankee baseball with Alex Rodriguez. I'm not saying I never flip the game on for a while or read up on them, but yes, I've lost a lot of interest with him back in the mix. For them to make the playoffs, they would almost certainly need signficant contributions from him, and that's not something that I really care about rooting for.

  19. #5419

    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    I wish more Yankees would suck the air out the room with a 134 OPS. The Yanks might not be so far back it they did.
    I don't begrudge you that. if everybody on the team were facing a long suspension from baseball and had taken PED's repeatedly and pontificated about not doing it, and had insinuated conspiracy theories, and had doctors call sports talk shows, but all had a 134 OPS+, and you'd have fun rooting for that team, then good for you. Seriously, it's individual taste and standards and if those things wouldn't bother you so long as he raked, then cool...enjoy the ride. I don't, but that's me.

  20. #5420

    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFan1421 View Post
    Well, you did bring up my lack of posts recently. Maybe not by name, but I think by any reasonable measure you were including me in this group you were talking about, so at a minimum, you've been noticing and keeping track of my posting frequency to some level.

    yeah, if Arod is one of the main centers of attention on this team going forward in future years, I'm pretty fatigued by the whole thing and I wouldn't be surprised to see myself slipping away in terms of interest. Hopefully, the 211 game ban will hold and we won't see him until mid-2015 at the earliest...and hopefully then he'll retire and/or the Yankees will cut their ties and move on with life.

    You seem to be a pretty black and white type of thinker. I can't tell you that just because Arod is on the roster, I've completely lost interest in the Yankees for as long as that is the case. But I find the whole thing really unfortunate, sad, and ultimately boring.

    I can't explain the whole thing away because I am an NFL fan and I know PED's are much more rampant in that league. But it is a different set of stated and implied standards and pretty much we all know the score. Fair or not, that's the way it is.

    At least Bonds back in the day just defied everybody and sneered at them. He didn't give speeches, blame his cousin, join the Hooten Foundation and get doctors to call radio stations throwing his team's management under the bus. he didn't imply a big smear campaign for the masses to get all worked up about. I'd actually respect Arod a whole lot more if he just sneered at everybody and shut up about it.

    Far as I'm concerned, not a single thing the guy has ever done on the field is legit. I have no idea how good he would have been or not have been if he hadn't be using most or all of his career. As I said, in 2009, I think you put the admitted use in the early 00's into the context of the time, take him for his word that it's behind him and move on. When you find out that he's actually been cheating ever since, all the while preaching about the evils of it, I'm sorry, but I'm just sick of it and have no interest in watching the ongoing nonsense that to me is just a bunch of baloney. And, yes, it goes along with all the other ridiculous behavior and nonsense the guy is wrapped up in.

    As I said, it's just sports, so if some have no issue with it, or not enough of an issue with it to continue, then enjoy Yankee baseball with Alex Rodriguez. I'm not saying I never flip the game on for a while or read up on them, but yes, I've lost a lot of interest with him back in the mix. For them to make the playoffs, they would almost certainly need signficant contributions from him, and that's not something that I really care about rooting for.
    Fair enough.

    That said, you'll be back as soon as he starts slumping.
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  21. #5421
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFan1421 View Post
    I don't begrudge you that. if everybody on the team were facing a long suspension from baseball and had taken PED's repeatedly and pontificated about not doing it, and had insinuated conspiracy theories, and had doctors call sports talk shows, but all had a 134 OPS+, and you'd have fun rooting for that team, then good for you. Seriously, it's individual taste and standards and if those things wouldn't bother you so long as he raked, then cool...enjoy the ride. I don't, but that's me.
    I still think the sport is riddled with PEDs, I'm not going to lose any sleep over the ones who got caught.

    And I hope MLB does a better job going forward cleaning house and that 50-100 games of A-rod's suspension is upheld in the process.

    But when A-rod does return (and while he's playing on appeal) from whatever suspension he receives I'll be rooting for him to be successful as long as he dons the pinstripes. I mean it's not like he's a rapist or murder or anything like that, at least not that I know of.
    Baseball is life;
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  22. #5422

    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    I still think the sport is riddled with PEDs, I'm not going to lose any sleep over the ones who got caught.

    And I hope MLB does a better job going forward cleaning house and that 50-100 games of A-rod's suspension is upheld in the process.

    But when A-rod does return (and while he's playing on appeal) from whatever suspension he receives I'll be rooting for him to be successful as long as he dons the pinstripes. I mean it's not like he's a rapist or murder or anything like that, at least not that I know of.
    and as I say, good for you if you enjoy rooting for him. and I agree, steroid use is not some crime against humanity like the two you mention are. obviously, I don't think arod should be put in prison or sentenced to death the way I would for those two.

  23. #5423

    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    Fair enough.

    That said, you'll be back as soon as he starts slumping.
    Given all the verbal volleys over the summer, I guess I see why you might think that. But honestly, I'm pretty much just tired of the whole saga. If anything, I have a few times thought about coming on to talk about how he must be juicing given his turnaround from last year, but thought, 'eh...the whole ARod debate is played out'.

    Again, he's clearly doing better than I expected/predicted he would. I think he's doing better than you expected/predicted he would. I don't really believe what we're seeing is real, but increasingly I just don't care about ARod...it's just tiring. Unfortunately, as a middle of the lineup hitter and a guy they probably need to make the playoffs, it just ruins most of the experience for me.

    I was at the gym last night and I couldn't believe I actually turned on the football game and barely paid attention to the Yanks....that was inconceivable for me until this year....Yankee baseball would always take precedence in the past unless the pennant race was completely over one way or another.
    s.

  24. #5424
    The Sausage King of Chicago Abe Frohman's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFan1421 View Post

    I know there is a lot of grey area with PED's and I'm sure I root for players who I don't know are on them. But what I do know is that Arod gave a tearful press conference and played everybody...the fans, his teammates and the media...for fools. Not the first athlete to do it and not the last one either. Coupled with the fact that to me, his 2009 postseason is now a joke, a farce (as much as Bonds career home run record is), and that I'm pretty convinced he's still using, as I don't see how he could come back from another major hip surgery at 38 years old and suddenly find the fountain of youth. Not sure why now we're supposed to believe him.
    If you, or anyone else for that matter cannot believe that the A-Rod taking the field right now for the Yankees is basically clean, especially under all the scrutiny he is under, who can you believe in ?

    If this Alex playing right now is dirty, who is clean ? Tell me ...
    ? Can switching to Geico really save you 15 % or more on car insurance ? ? Does the postman always ring twice ?

  25. #5425

    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Abe Frohman View Post
    If you, or anyone else for that matter cannot believe that the A-Rod taking the field right now for the Yankees is basically clean, especially under all the scrutiny he is under, who can you believe in ?

    If this Alex playing right now is dirty, who is clean ? Tell me ...
    Well, A-Rod has demonstrated that he thinks it's ok to use PED's. Most players haven't. Isn't that a pretty solid reason to have less belief in him being clean than others? And sure, he's under scrutiny, but he (and a handful of other players) was able to cheat successfully for a pretty long time, it doesn't seem that hard to think he could do it again.

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