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  1. #1976
    Let's Go Yankees!!! Bozidar's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    I thought I explained it pretty well. If you can't follow what I said, that's on you.



    Well that's a relief. I'd hate for that YogiKnows guy on the internet to think poorly of me.



    And yours make you seem insane. See-- it's not that difficult to understand. I knew you could do it. Friends?
    Btw, now you look that insane..
    "If your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you."

  2. #1977
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by just-blaze View Post
    Are you being rhetorical? I'll answer anyways.

    Beside the fact you brought up, the fact that there is a decline in hitting over the past five years due to steroid testing (supposedly), and the slightly subjective nature of what constitutes a starter, I think it's a useful tool. Hence......interesting.
    No I grabbed that data as it seemed a reasonable relative measure for position re OPS. It's just that depending on how you frame the data and sample some stats vary a lot more than others and as you're noting there are all sorts of factors that can really move the numbers too. Comparing a stat like OPS on players from widely separated eras, which is how this got started is based on a fundamentally flawed assumption: that the basic nature of the game has remained similar enough to make such comparisons. This started by comparing Arod OPS to Yogi's and it had nothing to do with steroids (for a change). As a stat driven sport, MLB has a vested interest in maintaining the illusion the stats can be compared, it's romantic and it's fun, but especially with many of the modern stats, it's revealed to be obviously silly without pages of explanation.

  3. #1978
    Let's Go Yankees!!! Bozidar's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ChinMusic View Post
    All I can say is youre just lucky ARod is not smart enough to understand this quote.
    "If your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you."

  4. #1979
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YogiKnows View Post
    sorry I don't recall where I used stats ? No system of law is ever applied equally or fairly. In Alex's case it's not a question of civil rights, it's you're rights as an employee and the rule there forever has been "Don't piss off your boss". In any event Alex may yet get an open and 'fairer hearing'... except he may not want us all to see the evidence, time will tell. I don't think a dying man like Weiner is much concerned with anything but the truth and protecting his Union members, if Alex is treated in a grossly unfair manner, I expect we'll be hearing from them, if not, it means Alex's natural allies don't have the stomach to defend him.
    I thought that's why they had a CBA in the first place?

    oh and grammar nazi warning, it's your not you're.

    On a separate and note, hypotetically what happens if

    1) MLB suspends A-rod without appeal or with sham appeal to commissioner without letting Alex go through arbitration process.
    2) A-rod successfully gets suspension overthrown in court.

    Who pays A-rod for the lost time during the "illegal suspension" MLB? Yankees? No-one?

    And do those recovered wages count against the Yankee cap if this goes into next year?
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  5. #1980
    Let's Go Yankees!!! Bozidar's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    comparing small sample-sized statistics for players in vastly different eras just seems silly.
    "If your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you."

  6. #1981

    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    It's ironic but MLB and Yankees actions have for the first time in Alex's career, turned him into a sympathetic figure. He will come out of this looking better than either organizations.

  7. #1982
    Let's Go Yankees!!! Bozidar's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by yanksftw View Post
    It's ironic but MLB and Yankees actions have for the first time in Alex's career, turned him into a sympathetic figure. He will come out of this looking better than either organizations.
    I'm truly baffled as to how that can be.
    "If your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you."

  8. #1983
    The Sausage King of Chicago Abe Frohman's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    hypotetically
    Call me the Grammar Gestapo ...
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  9. #1984
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    I thought that's why they had a CBA in the first place?

    oh and grammar nazi warning, it's your not you're.

    On a separate and note, hypotetically what happens if

    1) MLB suspends A-rod without appeal or with sham appeal to commissioner without letting Alex go through arbitration process.
    2) A-rod successfully gets suspension overthrown in court.

    Who pays A-rod for the lost time during the "illegal suspension" MLB? Yankees? No-one?

    And do those recovered wages count against the Yankee cap if this goes into next year?
    Welcome to the complexities of labor law. The CBA disposes of how the employer/employee relationship works, this is then overlaid with both a large amount of state and federal law. Let's get seriously complicated immediately: The CBA acknowledges the powers of both his direct employers(The Yankees) and the Commissioner. You can read elsewhere about his powers on issues outside the particular PED provisions, and yes, there is a provision that if he uses his absolute authority in a manner the Union finds unreasonable, they can demand the CBA be opened for renegotiation. Above that Alex/Yankee relationship is governed by NY State law as to anything not covered in the CBA, and in a Federal Court they would utilize NY labor law. There could be serious legal arguments over whether some issues are fully covered by the CBA or are open to NYS labor law precedent. You have no idea how easily this can be made complex.

    Much of what they will probably charge him under is not open to arbitration. The CBA does not provide for it, NY law does not provide for it. No one has a 'fundamental right' to arbitration unless agreed to by both parties or specifically required by the CBA. The commissioner has some absolute powers and it's less unusual than you think for appeal to go to the same person... you have no appeal most places when the boss fires you.

    If Arod manages to overthrow whatever MLB does to him in Federal Court, he will do what everyone else does: he will ask for all legal fees, and compensatory damages, which besides the legal fees could be more than what's remaining on his contract if he shows he was further injured by being deprived of the right to play.

    I have never had a spare month to begin to understand the complexities of the cap rules, someone who's an expert on that is needed, and no, no one is ever made whole and perfect again, all courts can usually do is dole out money, on some issues you can get 'equitable relief' (have someone ordered to do something instead of just winning money) but no one could ever give Arod back the years...obviously.
    Last edited by YogiKnows; 07-30-13 at 04:59 PM. Reason: added about cap issue

  10. #1985
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Abe Frohman View Post
    Call me the Grammar Gestapo ...
    touche
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  11. #1986
    The Sausage King of Chicago Abe Frohman's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    touche
    Funny how that played out ... I felt compelled to take the shot.

    ? Can switching to Geico really save you 15 % or more on car insurance ? ? Does the postman always ring twice ?

  12. #1987
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YogiKnows View Post
    You have no idea how easily this can be made complex.
    Oh I do. Believe me I do. And I'm pretty sure Alex and his attorneys are counting on it too.

    As for a boss being able to fire "at will" sure that can happen but that's part of the reason unions and CBA exist in the first place. If MLB owners could fire players at will like the "good old days", Alex would be unemployed already.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  13. #1988
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Abe Frohman View Post
    Funny how that played out ... I felt compelled to take the shot.

    It was well deserved.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  14. #1989
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Not that there's all that much going on regarding Alex's on-field performance but I thought I'd post what little we have.
    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/yan...eparts-complex
    TAMPA, Fla. -- Alex Rodriguez spent a little over six hours at the Yankees minor league complex in Tampa on Tuesday as he awaits his fate from Major League Baseball. The embattled third-baseman arrived in his black Maybach just after 9 a.m. and eventually made it onto one of the four fields to take batting practice.

    Wearing a Charleston RiverDogs cap, he warmed up and then hit for close to a half-hour before taking grounders at third base for about 20 minutes, throwing over to first and then to second. He finished his workout with eight 60-yard sprints and a variety of agility drills.

    He left the field without speaking to reporters and stayed inside the complex for close to 2 1/2 hours. He re-emerged a little before 3 p.m., looking grim, and left in the $380,000 vehicle without stopping to speak to the media.

  15. #1990
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by yanksftw View Post
    It's ironic but MLB and Yankees actions have for the first time in Alex's career, turned him into a sympathetic figure. He will come out of this looking better than either organizations.

    I don't think fans will be able to muster up sympathy for a guy that drives a $380k car to workout at a minor league facility.
    Beware the Bobcat!!!


  16. #1991
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Also this from Andrew Marchand:
    https://twitter.com/AndrewMarchand/s...24419101728769
    A-Rod is supposed to go on a rehab assignment on Thursday. Possibly be back in the majors by next Tuesday ... or never.

  17. #1992

    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bozidar View Post
    I'm truly baffled as to how that can be.
    My hunch is an overwhelming majority has very little sympathy for ARod's plight.
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  18. #1993

    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    So this thread was "interesting" to read today.
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  19. #1994
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    ^tuesday, or never. That's cute.

    What I don't get is if MLB is going to suspend why don't they just get it over with and announce?
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  20. #1995

    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    ^tuesday, or never. That's cute.

    What I don't get is if MLB is going to suspend why don't they just get it over with and announce?
    they want to make us suffer
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  21. #1996
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    ^tuesday, or never. That's cute.

    What I don't get is if MLB is going to suspend why don't they just get it over with and announce?
    because waiting longer would do the most damage to the Yankees. If he realy wanted to screw them, he would announce the minute after they bring Alex back to the big club and he gets up to bat.
    Beware the Bobcat!!!


  22. #1997
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Oh I do. Believe me I do. And I'm pretty sure Alex and his attorneys are counting on it too.

    As for a boss being able to fire "at will" sure that can happen but that's part of the reason unions and CBA exist in the first place. If MLB owners could fire players at will like the "good old days", Alex would be unemployed already.
    When you have the law and the facts on your side, the pleadings are usually brief, and to the point. When your case is weak, you attempt to frame it as very complex..you try and 'baffle them with bull...' Alex's lawyers are going to work very hard, make a ton of money and are going to lose badly if he insists on fighting.

  23. #1998
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    ^tuesday, or never. That's cute.

    What I don't get is if MLB is going to suspend why don't they just get it over with and announce?
    Best guesses:

    1. for whatever reason they didn't want all the names and I'm suspecting, others who have already settled to be released so teams can 'game' the situation prior to the trading deadline. If that's NOT the case I wouldn't be suprised if they extended the deadline.

    2. They want to release the info on everyone at once and don't want to do so til everyone has had a chance to negotiate, in which case despite all the public posturing, it may be the MLB-Arod negotiations that are holding this up. If they settle you can be 100% sure that was the holdup.

  24. #1999

    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YogiKnows View Post
    Welcome to the complexities of labor law. The CBA disposes of how the employer/employee relationship works, this is then overlaid with both a large amount of state and federal law. Let's get seriously complicated immediately: The CBA acknowledges the powers of both his direct employers(The Yankees) and the Commissioner. You can read elsewhere about his powers on issues outside the particular PED provisions, and yes, there is a provision that if he uses his absolute authority in a manner the Union finds unreasonable, they can demand the CBA be opened for renegotiation. Above that Alex/Yankee relationship is governed by NY State law as to anything not covered in the CBA, and in a Federal Court they would utilize NY labor law. There could be serious legal arguments over whether some issues are fully covered by the CBA or are open to NYS labor law precedent. You have no idea how easily this can be made complex.

    Much of what they will probably charge him under is not open to arbitration. The CBA does not provide for it, NY law does not provide for it. No one has a 'fundamental right' to arbitration unless agreed to by both parties or specifically required by the CBA. The commissioner has some absolute powers and it's less unusual than you think for appeal to go to the same person... you have no appeal most places when the boss fires you.

    If Arod manages to overthrow whatever MLB does to him in Federal Court, he will do what everyone else does: he will ask for all legal fees, and compensatory damages, which besides the legal fees could be more than what's remaining on his contract if he shows he was further injured by being deprived of the right to play.

    I have never had a spare month to begin to understand the complexities of the cap rules, someone who's an expert on that is needed, and no, no one is ever made whole and perfect again, all courts can usually do is dole out money, on some issues you can get 'equitable relief' (have someone ordered to do something instead of just winning money) but no one could ever give Arod back the years...obviously.
    yeah, but arod never failed a test. plus mlb is on a witch hunt.

  25. #2000
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    Re: 2013 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFan1421 View Post
    yeah, but arod never failed a test. plus mlb is on a witch hunt.
    wrong bait

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