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  1. #1
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    problem with our lineup

    is it just me or does it seem everyone is trying to pull the ball & go deep the only guy taking good atbats is almonte because he just wants base hits I think we should swap him & nix in the lineup & hope youk can bring back some pop
    If the numbers were right i'd bet on the weather.

  2. #2
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    Re: problem with our lineup

    Once we get Jeter, Granderson, ARod, and Tex back our lineup will be much better man. Until then you gotta ride the scrubs.

  3. #3

    Re: problem with our lineup

    The problem with the lineup isn't their approach. It's that there aren't any good players in it.

  4. #4

    Re: problem with our lineup

    Quote Originally Posted by firemanx View Post
    is it just me or does it seem everyone is trying to pull the ball & go deep the only guy taking good atbats is almonte because he just wants base hits I think we should swap him & nix in the lineup & hope youk can bring back some pop
    It's not just you. Overall, very few guys in this lineup have a solid hitting approach, and with 2 strikes and/or RISP, it gets worse.

    This shouldn't come as a surprise. The past few years it's been the same thing, especially in the playoffs. Too many people trying to pull every pitch.

  5. #5
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: problem with our lineup

    The problem with the lineup isn't their approach. It's that there aren't any good players in it.

    Endquote.

  6. #6

    Re: problem with our lineup

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    The problem with the lineup isn't their approach. It's that there aren't any good players in it.

    Endquote.
    And on the surface that's a gorgeous excuse. Except there's more to it than that.

    There are some decent hitters on the team. Of course this team as currently constructed is never going to hit like a great offense. They're not going to score 5+ runs per game.

    They are, however, better than what they're playing like. An improved hitting approach from guys like Wells, Nix, Adams, etc where they try to hit the ball where it's pitched instead of swinging for the fences could give better results.

    Please look at the Miami Marlins lineup. An NL team (no DH) and they hit in a pitcher's park. They are the lowest scoring team in all of baseball. Yet, over the last 45 games or so, they're outscoring the Yankees.

    This team's approach to hitting (pull, pull harder, be quicker and pull more) has been awful for 3+ years now. It's a team-wide failure to have sound, fundamental hitting mechanics.

  7. #7

    Re: problem with our lineup

    Quote Originally Posted by firemanx View Post
    is it just me or does it seem everyone is trying to pull the ball & go deep the only guy taking good atbats is almonte because he just wants base hits I think we should swap him & nix in the lineup & hope youk can bring back some pop
    isn't youk out longterm ?

  8. #8
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: problem with our lineup

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    And on the surface that's a gorgeous excuse. Except there's more to it than that.

    There are some decent hitters on the team. Of course this team as currently constructed is never going to hit like a great offense. They're not going to score 5+ runs per game.

    They are, however, better than what they're playing like. An improved hitting approach from guys like Wells, Nix, Adams, etc where they try to hit the ball where it's pitched instead of swinging for the fences could give better results.

    Please look at the Miami Marlins lineup. An NL team (no DH) and they hit in a pitcher's park. They are the lowest scoring team in all of baseball. Yet, over the last 45 games or so, they're outscoring the Yankees.

    This team's approach to hitting (pull, pull harder, be quicker and pull more) has been awful for 3+ years now. It's a team-wide failure to have sound, fundamental hitting mechanics.
    Your constant argument seems to be: there are no bad hitters, only bad approaches. But when you look at it, that argument is all over the place.

    On the one hand, Vernon Wells. Of course he's pull-happy. He's Vernon Wells. You're not about to change him now.

    On the other hand...Jayson Nix? You think the problem with Jayson Nix is that he's swinging for the fences too much? Seriously?

    Overall team batting: .239/.303/.380
    W/ RISP: .241/.334/.375
    2 outs, RISP: .232/.328/.340

    This is who they are. Sometimes a bad hitter is just a bad hitter. The Yankees have a lot of bad hitters.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
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  9. #9
    Pinpoint False1's Avatar
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    Re: problem with our lineup

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    And on the surface that's a gorgeous excuse. Except there's more to it than that.

    There are some decent hitters on the team. Of course this team as currently constructed is never going to hit like a great offense. They're not going to score 5+ runs per game.

    They are, however, better than what they're playing like. An improved hitting approach from guys like Wells, Nix, Adams, etc where they try to hit the ball where it's pitched instead of swinging for the fences could give better results.

    Please look at the Miami Marlins lineup. An NL team (no DH) and they hit in a pitcher's park. They are the lowest scoring team in all of baseball. Yet, over the last 45 games or so, they're outscoring the Yankees.

    This team's approach to hitting (pull, pull harder, be quicker and pull more) has been awful for 3+ years now. It's a team-wide failure to have sound, fundamental hitting mechanics.
    you keep comparing them to the Marlins, but I'm missing the point. How does this prove your POV that their issues are approach-related rather than a low talent level.

  10. #10
    Sunny days ahead YankeePride1967's Avatar
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    Re: problem with our lineup

    I do like Almonte so far and while he hasn't hit much of late, I like Adams. I think we have gotten about as much out of Wells/Oberbay/Hafner as can be expected. But I don't think many teams could absorb the injuries the Yankees have and be as competitive as they have been. We just need to get healthy and maybe acquire a DH or 3B.

  11. #11
    can't pump his fist Mark19's Avatar
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    Re: problem with our lineup

    I think it is actually pretty impressive that the team is still above .500 given that Jayson Nix, David Adams, Ben Francisco, Austin Romine, Chris Nelson, and Reid Brignac have already received nearly 600 ABs despite none of them having an OPS above .620.
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    "They should just practice during the regular season and show up for the playoffs -Ichiro on the Yankees

  12. #12

    Re: problem with our lineup

    It is a combination of significant lack of overall offensive talent with a highly overrated hitting coach who appears to make most hitters with whom he comes into contact pull-happy, swing for the fences, all-or-nothing players whose average drops precipitously and who repeatedly get stopped cold in the post-season by even average pitching. This combination has proven itself to be very damaging this year.

  13. #13

    Re: problem with our lineup

    On the one hand, Vernon Wells. Of course he's pull-happy. He's Vernon Wells. You're not about to change him now.
    Except when he came here, he WAS using all fields. He had a tight, compact, level swing for a month. Then he turned into Mark Teixeira. 9 for 90???? You really think Vernon Wells, at age 34, is a 9 for 90 type guy? Sure, maybe he's "only" a .230 hitter at this stage. 9 for 90 isn't .230. That kind of slump shouldn't happen to a decent major league hitter. Not a great one, but a decent one.

    On the other hand...Jayson Nix? You think the problem with Jayson Nix is that he's swinging for the fences too much? Seriously?
    Yup. in 58 at bats with RISP, Nix has 14 hits... and 25 Ks. 25! Typical of the Kevin Long era. Lots of strike outs and big swings in "clutch" situations. This entire team's hitting approach breaks down far too often. It's the reason they were a great regular season team these past 3 years but then the bats keep disappearing in the postseason.

  14. #14
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: problem with our lineup

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    Except when he came here, he WAS using all fields. He had a tight, compact, level swing for a month. Then he turned into Mark Teixeira. 9 for 90???? You really think Vernon Wells, at age 34, is a 9 for 90 type guy? Sure, maybe he's "only" a .230 hitter at this stage. 9 for 90 isn't .230. That kind of slump shouldn't happen to a decent major league hitter. Not a great one, but a decent one.


    Yup. in 58 at bats with RISP, Nix has 14 hits... and 25 Ks. 25! Typical of the Kevin Long era. Lots of strike outs and big swings in "clutch" situations. This entire team's hitting approach breaks down far too often. It's the reason they were a great regular season team these past 3 years but then the bats keep disappearing in the postseason.
    Maybe it's typical of the Kevin Long era, but this is who Jayson Nix is. Actually, he's currently hitting more than 30 points above his career average (with a bit less pop). As for Wells, his slump is ridiculous, but basically he's regressed to the place he's been the last couple of years.

    The bottom line is that with all the injuries, this isn't a good offensive team. If it just took coaching to make them all better, most of these guys probably would have had better careers to this point.
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  15. #15
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: problem with our lineup

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    Except when he came here, he WAS using all fields. He had a tight, compact, level swing for a month. Then he turned into Mark Teixeira. 9 for 90???? You really think Vernon Wells, at age 34, is a 9 for 90 type guy? Sure, maybe he's "only" a .230 hitter at this stage. 9 for 90 isn't .230. That kind of slump shouldn't happen to a decent major league hitter. Not a great one, but a decent one.



    Yup. in 58 at bats with RISP, Nix has 14 hits... and 25 Ks. 25! Typical of the Kevin Long era. Lots of strike outs and big swings in "clutch" situations. This entire team's hitting approach breaks down far too often. It's the reason they were a great regular season team these past 3 years but then the bats keep disappearing in the postseason.
    No, I don't think Wells is "really" a 9-for-90 hitter. I also don't think he's "really" a guy with a tight, compact swing who hits to all fields. He's had a good streak and a bad streak that are not typical, but the average is about right. The approach is what it is.

    Nix's problem is that he's not a good hitter. In fact, I'd say his approach has been exemplary, in that he's wrung everything out of his limited ability that can be wrung.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  16. #16
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    Re: problem with our lineup

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    I do like Almonte so far and while he hasn't hit much of late, I like Adams. I think we have gotten about as much out of Wells/Oberbay/Hafner as can be expected. But I don't think many teams could absorb the injuries the Yankees have and be as competitive as they have been. We just need to get healthy and maybe acquire a DH or 3B.
    You mean ARod?

    I'm loving Almonte so far. Let the kid play every day.

  17. #17

    Re: problem with our lineup

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    Yup. in 58 at bats with RISP, Nix has 14 hits... and 25 Ks. 25! Typical of the Kevin Long era. Lots of strike outs and big swings in "clutch" situations. This entire team's hitting approach breaks down far too often. It's the reason they were a great regular season team these past 3 years but then the bats keep disappearing in the postseason.
    Nix is bad at that because he is bad. Not because of his approach. As an extreme example, if you put me in the lineup, my approach would be to do whatever i could to make contact. I would most likely be 0-58 with 58 strikeouts because I'm bad at hitting major league pitching, not because of my approach. Nix is like that. Just not quite as bad.

  18. #18
    Pinpoint False1's Avatar
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    Re: problem with our lineup

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    Except when he came here, he WAS using all fields. He had a tight, compact, level swing for a month. Then he turned into Mark Teixeira. 9 for 90???? You really think Vernon Wells, at age 34, is a 9 for 90 type guy? Sure, maybe he's "only" a .230 hitter at this stage. 9 for 90 isn't .230. That kind of slump shouldn't happen to a decent major league hitter. Not a great one, but a decent one.
    I guess it wasnt publicized that Long has been Wells' hitting coach on the side for years, crimping his style. Good inside info.

  19. #19
    Sunny days ahead YankeePride1967's Avatar
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    Re: problem with our lineup

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    You mean ARod?

    I'm loving Almonte so far. Let the kid play every day.
    I agree but he's playing left. I'm fine with him there. I say 3B because I don't think A-Rod plays a single inning this year. I think the suspensions will come out before he's ready to play.

  20. #20

    Re: problem with our lineup

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    I guess it wasnt publicized that Long has been Wells' hitting coach on the side for years, crimping his style. Good inside info.
    It was covered extensively when Wells was acquired (and during the first week of the season) that he had gone back to old tapes and discovered that his swing was different. He admitted to swinging too much for the fences during his time in Anaheim. He said that he worked during the offseason and spring training to concentrate on a quicker, more compact stroke, as well as driving the ball to the opposite field. Those are his paraphrased words. The results temporarily spoke for themselves.

    Wells, however, has not only reverted back to his Angels form, but gone way beyond that, sinking to what is likely his worst slump ever. It's not outrageous to think that a good hitting coach might be able to do some hitting drills to reinforce the positive things that he was doing the first month of the season, so that a 9 for 90 wouldn't take place. Not definitely, but maybe. But at the very least, it's clear that Long hasn't had any positive impact on Wells. I'll even go so far as to say that his Angels struggles might also be due to the chaos of the hitting coach(es) over there - the Hatcher/Eppard fiasco is still rearing it's ugly head in that city. Wells put up a 125 OPS+ in Toronto before joining that circus in Anaheim.

    I've watched hitters come here and magically transform to dead-pull, uppercut swingers when they weren't always that way. So either putting on pinstripes is some curse, or something is making hitters less fundamentally sound. It doesn't always manifest during the regular season. It's more in the postseason where that kind of flaw is exposed/exploited by good scouting reports and the higher impact of each individual at bat (the KC Royals on September 5th might not care, but in the postseason, they know the Yankees get-it-all-on-one-swing approach will work in the pitcher's favor).

    If it's not Long's fault, and the hitting coach is irrelevant, then a change couldn't hurt, could it? In fact, it might just be the psychological change that this underachieving team needs - not just the 2013 underachievers, but the underachieving team that has been disappearing in the playoffs. Something for the past few years has been "broken" about this team's offense. They constantly lead the league in runs scored, but are strangely prone to being shut down by the occasional mediocre pitcher or soft tosser, and they completely fizzle out in the postseason.

    I will gladly admit to the possibility that it's all one big streak of unbelievably bad luck. Possible. I don't think it is, but that's just a think.

    Postseason numbers:

    Granderson (2012): 3 for 33, 16 K
    Tex (career w/ Yanks): .196 BA, 14 RBI, 138 AB
    Swisher (career w/ Yanks): .162 BA, 130 AB
    Robinson Cano (career w/ Yanks): .222 BA, 203 AB
    Cano (2012): 3 for 40 (seriously, how does a guy like Cano go 3 for 40 ever)

    The playoff failures of the "big bats" in recent years makes me theorize that they're simply not getting the proper reinforcement of fundamental hitting practices. It's these sorts of things that have to make you start pointing fingers. Feel free to love K-Long. Feel free to blame this on Cash. Feel free to say it's the "baseball gods." It's probably everything but Kevin Long, knowing the story of my life (I have a good life, I say that light-heartedly).

    Whatever the case, I dislike Long as a hitting coach and think he's failing at in-game adjustments, adjustments/preparation when it comes to different pitching styles, and teaching/reinforcing/practicing an overall sound hitting philosophy. I think he's a great guy, seems nice enough, and is probably a fine human being. I just hate the "style" that all our hitters seem to adopt sooner or later, even when the arrive in YS with a decent batting average and a nice approach to start things off.

    No problem with anyone who sees it differently. I'm just trying to explain why I feel the way I do.

  21. #21

    Re: problem with our lineup

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post

    The playoff failures of the "big bats" in recent years makes me theorize that they're simply not getting the proper reinforcement of fundamental hitting practices. It's these sorts of things that have to make you start pointing fingers. Feel free to love K-Long. Feel free to blame this on Cash. Feel free to say it's the "baseball gods." It's probably everything but Kevin Long, knowing the story of my life (I have a good life, I say that light-heartedly).

    Whatever the case, I dislike Long as a hitting coach and think he's failing at in-game adjustments, adjustments/preparation when it comes to different pitching styles, and teaching/reinforcing/practicing an overall sound hitting philosophy. I think he's a great guy, seems nice enough, and is probably a fine human being. I just hate the "style" that all our hitters seem to adopt sooner or later, even when the arrive in YS with a decent batting average and a nice approach to start things off.

    No problem with anyone who sees it differently. I'm just trying to explain why I feel the way I do.
    The problem is, you pass off your theory obnoxiously and as fact.
    EvilEmpireDC: Fans bitch about anything lol

  22. #22

    Re: problem with our lineup

    No one is hitting is the problem with this lineup. This team needs a big bat.

  23. #23
    NYYF Triple Crown

    JOBA RULES's Avatar
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    Re: problem with our lineup

    We are waiting for two 40 year olds coming off significant injuries and a guy in Granderson who strikes out getting up from bed in the morning.

    Yes the more talented guys will help but will they be enough to make serious noise in the East? This team needs to get younger and needs to add some new pieces in the next couple years.

  24. #24
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: problem with our lineup

    The Kevin Long vitriol in this thread is hilarious.

  25. #25

    Re: problem with our lineup

    Is there any hitting coach in the history of baseball who could make this a formidable lineup? I mean, come on. Veterans such as Ichiro, Wells, Overbay and Hafner all knew at one point how to hit, but are all either done or close to done. Jayson Nix is never going to hit. That's two thirds of the lineup right now.

    I have no way of knowing whether or not Kevin Long is a good hitting coach or not, but to me a hitting coach can help make incremental improvements and/or lend another perspective. They aren't magicians, though....

    The Yanks have two very nice offensive players in Cano and Gardner and both are having reasonably representative seasons. The rest? I can't find a way to blame a hitting coach for the fact that guys are shot.

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