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  1. #1
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    Why can't major league contracts be voided if........

    a player is found using PED's? I haven't read or heard anyone address this issue but would like to know why this can't be written into a contract. This would prevent clubs from giving obsurd contracts to players after they were suspended for using PED's....Melky Cabrera comes to mind. Can someone out there explain this to me because I'm not a lawyer.

  2. #2

    Re: Why can't major league contracts be voided if........

    The penalties for PED use are part of the CBA as is the basic individual player contract. Nothing can be added to the player's contract that would override what has been collectively bargained. Kind of like how in the government individual states law cannot override federal law.

  3. #3
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    Re: Why can't major league contracts be voided if........

    I think theoretically it can be written in, but it hasn't been done, and probably never will. Players union probably would never let it fly.

  4. #4
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Why can't major league contracts be voided if........

    From the MLB Joint Drug Program, Section 8(L):
    All authority to discipline Players for violations of the Program shall repose with the Commissionerís Office. No Club may take any disciplinary or adverse action against a Player (including but not limited to a fine, suspension, or any adverse action pursuant to a Uniform Playerís Contract) because of a Playerís violation of the Program.
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  5. #5

    Re: Why can't major league contracts be voided if........

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    The penalties for PED use are part of the CBA as is the basic individual player contract. Nothing can be added to the player's contract that would override what has been collectively bargained. Kind of like how in the government individual states law cannot override federal law.
    Then how comes states like california can allow pot sales which violates federal law ?

  6. #6

    Re: Why can't major league contracts be voided if........

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Then how comes states like california can allow pot sales which violates federal law ?
    It still is a violation of federal law.
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  7. #7
    Sunny days ahead YankeePride1967's Avatar
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    Re: Why can't major league contracts be voided if........

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Then how comes states like california can allow pot sales which violates federal law ?
    The CBA does not prevent the player from being arrested if the government so chooses, but it is a mutually agreed upon contract that specifies the penalties for using. They did not agree to terminating the contract until the third offense.

  8. #8

    Re: Why can't major league contracts be voided if........

    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty one View Post
    a player is found using PED's? I haven't read or heard anyone address this issue but would like to know why this can't be written into a contract. This would prevent clubs from giving obsurd contracts to players after they were suspended for using PED's....Melky Cabrera comes to mind. Can someone out there explain this to me because I'm not a lawyer.
    Because the union is too strong, and if a team by some miracle did void a contract claiming the morals clause, no MLBPA member would ever sign with that team again.

    even if you were to win the battle, you lose the long term war

  9. #9
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yankees2010 View Post
    Because the union is too strong, and if a team by some miracle did void a contract claiming the morals clause, no MLBPA member would ever sign with that team again.

    even if you were to win the battle, you lose the long term war
    Read what I quoted above. It specifically says teams can't do that. It's not one thing they can try and see if they can get away with it. It's like paying a player less than the minimum salary, or putting the bases 95 feet apart. You just aren't allowed to, period.

  10. #10
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    Re: Why can't major league contracts be voided if........

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Read what I quoted above. It specifically says teams can't do that. It's not one thing they can try and see if they can get away with it. It's like paying a player less than the minimum salary, or putting the bases 95 feet apart. You just aren't allowed to, period.

    My guess is that there is growing consensus among the ownership and the players that contracts should be able to be voided if the player is caught repeatedly using PEDS. The Yankees are shackled to huge dollars with Rogriguez. Meanwhile he's suffered injuries consistent with prolonged PED use. He's now been outed again. The Yankees and other clubs have no recourse and there really is no penalty.

    Look at Melky Cabrera. He managed to up his production with PEDs, got a fat contract, and because it can't be voided can just cash those checks. Cabrera shows that there really is no disincentive for players to continue to cheat. If they risked having their contract voided then I think steroid use would stop immediately. You take away the guaranteed money and you take away the incentive.

  11. #11
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaylorBearYankeeFan View Post
    My guess is that there is growing consensus among the ownership and the players that contracts should be able to be voided if the player is caught repeatedly using PEDS. The Yankees are shackled to huge dollars with Rogriguez. Meanwhile he's suffered injuries consistent with prolonged PED use. He's now been outed again. The Yankees and other clubs have no recourse and there really is no penalty.

    Look at Melky Cabrera. He managed to up his production with PEDs, got a fat contract, and because it can't be voided can just cash those checks. Cabrera shows that there really is no disincentive for players to continue to cheat. If they risked having their contract voided then I think steroid use would stop immediately. You take away the guaranteed money and you take away the incentive.
    What makes you think there's any such consensus among the players? I don't think they'd ever agree to that. I'm not even sure that Selig would want to give up his own exclusive status in meting out punishment.

    The Blue Jays signed Melky to a big contract after his PED use was known and his suspension served. They had the info, they just screwed up.

    Basically, the Yankees would like to void ARod's contract, and the Brewers and MLB would love to stick it to Braun. Otherwise, I don't see the consensus.

  12. #12

    Re: Why can't major league contracts be voided if........

    Quote Originally Posted by BaylorBearYankeeFan View Post
    Look at Melky Cabrera. He managed to up his production with PEDs, got a fat contract, and because it can't be voided can just cash those checks. Cabrera shows that there really is no disincentive for players to continue to cheat. If they risked having their contract voided then I think steroid use would stop immediately. You take away the guaranteed money and you take away the incentive.
    Cabrera's a pretty perfect example which refutes your final sentence. His PED suspension effectively did void his contract - he was on a one year deal and lost his remaining salary as a result of his suspension. But the risk of losing the rest of the year was no incentive for him to be clean - the benefit of playing at a higher level outweighed the risk of getting caught. Players like A-Rod and Braun might stop using if the hammer of a voided contract was out there, but there will always be tons of players on short-term deals for whom the risk of getting caught, even if it means their contract is completely voided, is easily outweighed by the benefit of improving their performance.

  13. #13
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    Re: Why can't major league contracts be voided if........

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mxylsplk View Post
    Cabrera's a pretty perfect example which refutes your final sentence. His PED suspension effectively did void his contract - he was on a one year deal and lost his remaining salary as a result of his suspension. But the risk of losing the rest of the year was no incentive for him to be clean - the benefit of playing at a higher level outweighed the risk of getting caught. Players like A-Rod and Braun might stop using if the hammer of a voided contract was out there, but there will always be tons of players on short-term deals for whom the risk of getting caught, even if it means their contract is completely voided, is easily outweighed by the benefit of improving their performance.

    My bad. Lost track of Melky after he left the Yankees. To me it's the potential of a bigger contract that drives these players. Even if he were caught for PEDs, there was still a team willing to take a risk on getting that same level of production.

    Players like ARod and Braun who sign multi-year deals I think would be dissuaded from using if millions could be voided from their contracts. To me its the only stick big enough to prevent PED use. Right now they forfeit a little pay and don't play some games. Ban them an entire season, void their contracts and you have a strong incentive to stay clean.



    JL25and3, it's just my guess. Tex speaking out in the manner he did gives me confidence that there exist folks who are willing to stand up for a clean game.

  14. #14
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    Re: Why can't major league contracts be voided if........

    Quote Originally Posted by BaylorBearYankeeFan View Post
    MPlayers like ARod and Braun who sign multi-year deals I think would be dissuaded from using if millions could be voided from their contracts. To me its the only stick big enough to prevent PED use. Right now they forfeit a little pay and don't play some games. Ban them an entire season, void their contracts and you have a strong incentive to stay clean.
    While I agree with your sentiment and conclusion, you can't change a contract retroactively, just prospectively.

    Baseball SHOULD begin with a minimum 100 game suspension for ANY improper drug use (not just PEDs) and find a way in the standard player contract for teams to void years on a contract with a violation of league policy.

    Unfortunately, such changes will have to be negotiated with the MLBPA.
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  15. #15

    Re: Why can't major league contracts be voided if........

    Quote Originally Posted by longtimeyankeefan View Post
    While I agree with your sentiment and conclusion, you can't change a contract retroactively, just prospectively.

    Baseball SHOULD begin with a minimum 100 game suspension for ANY improper drug use (not just PEDs) and find a way in the standard player contract for teams to void years on a contract with a violation of league policy.

    Unfortunately, such changes will have to be negotiated with the MLBPA.
    The individual player contract would not have to be changed to increase the penalties. The Joint Drug Agreement would have to be amended and that has been done as recently as this year. Tougher penalties can be instituted anytime MLB and MLBPA can agree on it.

    I don't think the MLBPA is not bargaining from as strong a position on this as they used to. Public demand, congressional interference and more vocal opposition to PEDs from a higher percentage of their members have put them in a different position. Capitulating on adding blood testing this year is a huge leap from their stance of several years ago.

    While I can't see them ever going to banning players on a first time offense, I can see them toughing up the disciplinary policies before the current agreement expires.

  16. #16
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    Re: Why can't major league contracts be voided if........

    Nothing meaningful will happen until the owners get religion and agree that PED's are bad for the game. My feeling is that the enhanced performances provided by PEDs put fannies into the seats and $$$ into the owners pockets. They not only turned a deaf ear to the problem but probably encouraged the type performances provided by the use of PEDs

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  17. #17
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    Re: Why can't major league contracts be voided if........

    The current CBA expires in 2016. At that time I think language will be incorporated that will allow the voiding of future contracts. All existing contracts will have to be grandfathered.

    Lifetime bans for a first offense is not going to happen. There is too much of a risk of a false positive test.

  18. #18
    Re2pect Hitman23's Avatar
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    Re: Why can't major league contracts be voided if........

    I doubt the players union agrees. If they do try we're going to have another strike.
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  19. #19
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Why can't major league contracts be voided if........

    I've said it before, I'll say it again: as long as Brian Sabean still has a job, there should be no talk of voiding player contracts. The information about him in the Mitchell report is incredibly damning, and yet it was completely ignored.
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  20. #20
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    Re: Why can't major league contracts be voided if........

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman23 View Post
    I doubt the players union agrees. If they do try we're going to have another strike.
    This. And I'm not sure the owners really care either. After all teams want the players to produce. It's hard to convince people that teams don't know which players are taking PED.

  21. #21
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    Re: Why can't major league contracts be voided if........

    If the union and MLB are super serious about getting rid of PEDs completely they would add in the ability for a club to void a contract on positive test. That will never happen but its really what needs to happen.

    Players take PEDs to land those giant contracts and if they could lose the contract whats the point of taking them
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  22. #22
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    Re: Why can't major league contracts be voided if........

    Quote Originally Posted by BronxYanks45 View Post
    If the union and MLB are super serious about getting rid of PEDs completely they would add in the ability for a club to void a contract on positive test. That will never happen but its really what needs to happen.

    Players take PEDs to land those giant contracts and if they could lose the contract whats the point of taking them
    Firstly there is no reason for the union to be serious about getting rid of PED. Secondly I doubt teams are serious about getting rid of PED too. The Brewers wouldn't get rid of Braun's contract even if he's suspended for a whole season.

  23. #23
    Slow in, Fast out ThePinStripes's Avatar
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    Re: Why can't major league contracts be voided if........

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I've said it before, I'll say it again: as long as Brian Sabean still has a job, there should be no talk of voiding player contracts. The information about him in the Mitchell report is incredibly damning, and yet it was completely ignored.
    It was incredibly imprecise, too.
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  24. #24

    Re: Why can't major league contracts be voided if........

    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty one View Post
    a player is found using PED's? I haven't read or heard anyone address this issue but would like to know why this can't be written into a contract. This would prevent clubs from giving obsurd contracts to players after they were suspended for using PED's....Melky Cabrera comes to mind. Can someone out there explain this to me because I'm not a lawyer.
    MLB teams made so much more money of PEDs than they players ever did. They should not be rewarded twice.

  25. #25
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    It was incredibly imprecise, too.
    Not at all. Pp. 124-5 in particular. Much more precise and legitimate than any of the information on players.

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