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  1. #476
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by goin for 27 View Post
    Why not?

    I can see them trying to sign Cano, but Kuroda could bring back very legit return, and would be a perfect rental for many teams....
    Doesn't Kuroda have a NTC? He wouldn't waive it when he was on the Dodgers, so I have doubts he will now
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  2. #477
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    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Yes. I can't stand NTC's, and Yanks give them out like ice cream.

    That said, I would think Kuroda would accept a trade to Dodgers. Also, he gets not run support on a team that could finish last in their division. Could be a factor to get him to waive.
    Goin for 2<strike>7</strike>8!

  3. #478

    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    Problem is, Granderson won't return until shortly before the deadline. He isn't going to have much time to prove his health. Though I tend to agree.
    Yea I agree Granderson's situation is questionable. However some of the other OF's will probably be traded before the deadline. Also his expiring contract will be attractive to teams that don't want to pay for a guy like Rios next year. And really the Yankees wouldn't have to deal him as they could always hold onto him and offer the qualifying offer for potential draft pick compensation.

    As mentioned the real return would most likely come from Cano and Kuroda. The rest of the guys would be available and dealt if it made sense. However the Yankees would only become sellers if they could land a nice haul for guys like Cano and Kuroda. Otherwise there's no sense in selling.

  4. #479
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    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by goin for 27 View Post
    Why not?

    I can see them trying to sign Cano, but Kuroda could bring back very legit return, and would be a perfect rental for many teams....
    Doesn't he have a no trade clause? Or he did when he was with the Dodgers, it seems to me.

    EDIT: I see this has been addressed.

  5. #480

    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Fan in Boston View Post
    Before we start congratulating the Red Sox, we should remember that they missed the playoffs they missed the playoffs 3 consecutive years, during which they were truly an embarrassing franchise. The Yankees haven't hit that depth yet, and hopefully never will.
    I'm not congratulating them for years of success, but rather saying that if the Yankees were to sell now they could potentially rebuild (or rather retool) quickly due to their spending power similar to what the Red Sox did over the past year.

    Plus again all of the guys I suggest trading are in the last year of their deals meaning that the only impact would be to this year as the Yankees could try to bring any of these guys back.

  6. #481
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    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by goin for 27 View Post
    Sox saved $130M in salary, and got a couple of prospects to boot. That was the trade for the ages, giving the Sox crazy salary flexibility moving forward.

    I don't see three highly paid Yanks, or even two, going to one team in a blockbuster.
    Yep, we would never be this fortunate. When we sign horrid contracts we live with them.
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  7. #482
    Sunny days ahead YankeePride1967's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TrueYankee01 View Post
    We're not trading Cano or Kuroda.
    Cano I can understand, but if we fall out of it the only way we shouldn't trade Kuroda is if he refuses to waive is no trade clause.

  8. #483
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    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by primetime714 View Post
    Yea I agree Granderson's situation is questionable. However some of the other OF's will probably be traded before the deadline. Also his expiring contract will be attractive to teams that don't want to pay for a guy like Rios next year. And really the Yankees wouldn't have to deal him as they could always hold onto him and offer the qualifying offer for potential draft pick compensation.

    As mentioned the real return would most likely come from Cano and Kuroda. The rest of the guys would be available and dealt if it made sense. However the Yankees would only become sellers if they could land a nice haul for guys like Cano and Kuroda. Otherwise there's no sense in selling.
    Because of his health issues, I think what we would get by holding onto him and making an offer and the pick would be more than we would get for Granderson in a trade.

  9. #484
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    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    This season is shaping up as a disaster. It's also clear the farm system as of right now is not producing. It becomes more obvious every day that the Yankees might be sellers at the trading deadline, and almsot nobody is untradeable. Above all if they are not going to pay Cano his insane demands, he would be a prime candidate for a swap for prime prospects.
    pitching, pitching and pitching

  10. #485

    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    Because of his health issues, I think what we would get by holding onto him and making an offer and the pick would be more than we would get for Granderson in a trade.
    There's a very good chance of that. However the Yankees could also pickup part or the remainder of his contract and get a prospect that is close to the majors. Which could be more valuable than a 1st rounder. The only other good OF that will be potentially available at the deadline that is also a FA in the offseason is Morse and he's also on the DL right now. The rest of the FA OF's play for teams in contention.

    Again though the whole idea of selling is contingent on getting a good deal for Cano and/or Kuroda.

  11. #486

    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by goin for 27 View Post
    Why not?

    I can see them trying to sign Cano, but Kuroda could bring back very legit return, and would be a perfect rental for many teams....
    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    Cano I can understand, but if we fall out of it the only way we shouldn't trade Kuroda is if he refuses to waive is no trade clause.
    Of course Kuroda would bring us back some nifty prospects, but the Yankees are not going to give up on their season by trading the most consistent and effective starter on our roster. We can be 2, 6, or 10 games back out of first by the ASB but the mentality of the front office has never been to act as sellers at the trade deadline. And to me, it doesn't make sense anyway. The return of key players could fuel confidence back into this team and put us back on a winning path. Now, come end of July (25th-30th) and injuries are still an issue and we have totally fallen off the railroad, then sure, look into trading Kuroda for a good spec. But if Cashman can manage to get at least one potent bat from any team, that may be all we need to see us turn this thing around.

  12. #487
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    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugg View Post
    ...all if they are not going to pay Cano his insane demands, he would be a prime candidate for a swap for prime prospects...
    to who? The only value he would have would be to a contending team that is maybe one player away. What team out there do you think is going to part with prime prospects for a 3 month rental of a 30 year old guy that, in likelihood, they won't be able to resign? Baseball economics have changed.

  13. #488
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    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NoWay View Post
    to who? The only value he would have would be to a contending team that is maybe one player away. What team out there do you think is going to part with prime prospects for a 3 month rental of a 30 year old guy that, in likelihood, they won't be able to resign? Baseball economics have changed.
    Dodgers. They are also a good bet to offer him a long term deal. Now, I'm not so sure about what they have prospect-wise that would interest the Yankees. Their system has taken a hit over the past couple of years.
    Never let the fear of striking out get in your way. - Babe Ruth

  14. #489
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    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    He counts towards the eligibility for free agency and arbitration whether he is active or not so what sense would it make to not pitch him and slow his development? And per the CBA they have to activate him (barring any setbacks) after the 30 day minor league rehab assignment is done so not bringing him up is not even an option.
    He go rocked last night and afaik, if they send him back down to AAA for a min of 2 weeks at the end of the 30 day rehab, they keep control...let's see what they do...

  15. #490
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    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Allan View Post
    Dodgers. They are also a good bet to offer him a long term deal. Now, I'm not so sure about what they have prospect-wise that would interest the Yankees. Their system has taken a hit over the past couple of years.
    Okay, now let me ask you this-

    I'm assuming the only way the Dodgers pull the trigger on this is if they intend to make a real run at signing him long term after this season. Why would they give up prospects when all they potentially have to do is sign him as a FA? Doesn't make any sense, especially when they know that they can be in a position to match whatever dollar figure the Yankees come to the table with (as could the Rangers, Angels, Tigers, and Nationals).

    Whether or not we want to accept it, Cano's trade value is almost non-existant. He's the kind of guy the Yankees have acquired in years past because they had the ability to either absorb a bad contract or offer a big money extension.

  16. #491
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    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NoWay View Post
    to who? The only value he would have would be to a contending team that is maybe one player away. What team out there do you think is going to part with prime prospects for a 3 month rental of a 30 year old guy that, in likelihood, they won't be able to resign? Baseball economics have changed.
    For some context, the Giants traded a prime prospect in Wheeler for Beltran a few years ago. The economics were the same - SF wasn't allowed to offer Beltran arb, the same way a team trading for Cano can't offer him arb. SF had no intention of re-signing Beltran. It's not that far-fetched.

  17. #492
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    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    For some context, the Giants traded a prime prospect in Wheeler for Beltran a few years ago. The economics were the same - SF wasn't allowed to offer Beltran arb, the same way a team trading for Cano can't offer him arb. SF had no intention of re-signing Beltran. It's not that far-fetched.
    Right, but one difference is that this is the first year rentals won't get the acquiring team a first round pick as compensation when they inevitably walk. SF knew they were giving up a prime prospect, but at least had the comp pick to offset some of that loss. Now - nothing. The Mets also paid almost all of Beltran's remaining salary I think, which is something the Yankees could conceivably do to try and get a better return if they do sell.

    EDIT - ah wait, gotcha. Forgot that Beltran negotiation a "no-arb" clause into his Mets contract. So that isn't in play in this example. But will be interesting to see how rental "buyers" factor in the "no comp pick" variable into prices they are willing to pay.

    I think Wheeler for Beltran surprised a lot of people. I'm not sure that many teams would have made that strong a play in terms of the caliber of prospect.

  18. #493
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    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Right, but one difference is that this is the first year rentals won't get the acquiring team a first round pick as compensation when they inevitably walk. SF knew they were giving up a prime prospect, but at least had the comp pick to offset some of that loss. Now - nothing.
    I stated that in my post - SF wasn't allowed to offer Beltran arb...

  19. #494

    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Right, but one difference is that this is the first year rentals won't get the acquiring team a first round pick as compensation when they inevitably walk. SF knew they were giving up a prime prospect, but at least had the comp pick to offset some of that loss. Now - nothing.
    Are you sure SF got a comp pick for Beltran?
    Poor ownership can hold a baseball team down for years!

  20. #495

    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    I stated that in my post - SF wasn't allowed to offer Beltran arb...
    Right, Giants didn't get any comp pick for Beltran in the 2012 draft.
    Poor ownership can hold a baseball team down for years!

  21. #496
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    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Yeah - missed that and forgot about that, but edited.

  22. #497
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NoWay View Post
    Okay, now let me ask you this-

    I'm assuming the only way the Dodgers pull the trigger on this is if they intend to make a real run at signing him long term after this season. Why would they give up prospects when all they potentially have to do is sign him as a FA? Doesn't make any sense, especially when they know that they can be in a position to match whatever dollar figure the Yankees come to the table with (as could the Rangers, Angels, Tigers, and Nationals).

    Whether or not we want to accept it, Cano's trade value is almost non-existant. He's the kind of guy the Yankees have acquired in years past because they had the ability to either absorb a bad contract or offer a big money extension.
    Cano may not be having his best season, but the guy is an elite player; I can't remember the last time the Yankees acquired someone of his stature at the deadline. If some team thinks he is going to put them over the top this year they'll make the offer -- you don't get that many chances to win it all, and the guy could be a real difference maker.

    Of course, I think this whole conversation is academic because I don't see the Yankees making him available for a trade.
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  23. #498

    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TrueYankee01 View Post
    Of course Kuroda would bring us back some nifty prospects, but the Yankees are not going to give up on their season by trading the most consistent and effective starter on our roster. We can be 2, 6, or 10 games back out of first by the ASB but the mentality of the front office has never been to act as sellers at the trade deadline. And to me, it doesn't make sense anyway. The return of key players could fuel confidence back into this team and put us back on a winning path. Now, come end of July (25th-30th) and injuries are still an issue and we have totally fallen off the railroad, then sure, look into trading Kuroda for a good spec. But if Cashman can manage to get at least one potent bat from any team, that may be all we need to see us turn this thing around.
    I agree the Yankees won't give up on the season, but they absolutely should. This team is simply not good enough even when healthy to both make the playoffs and have a shot to win it all. Its an old poorly constructed team that has already lost two regulars for the season (I'll be surprised if Youk makes it back) and is counting on two nearly 40 year players coming off injury to save them. Barring a very sudden change of fortune it would be shortsighted not to explore the market for guys like Cano and Kuroda.

  24. #499
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    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Fan in Boston View Post
    Cano may not be having his best season, but the guy is an elite player; I can't remember the last time the Yankees acquired someone of his stature at the deadline. If some team thinks he is going to put them over the top this year they'll make the offer -- you don't get that many chances to win it all, and the guy could be a real difference maker.

    Of course, I think this whole conversation is academic because I don't see the Yankees making him available for a trade.
    that's irrelevant. But, seeing as you brought it up, name a team that you think he could go to and put over the top. Nobody throws away picks for shrt term rentals these days.

    The Yankees won't make him available because the return wouldn't be equal to what is given up.

  25. #500
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NoWay View Post
    that's irrelevant. But, seeing as you brought it up, name a team that you think he could go to and put over the top. Nobody throws away picks for shrt term rentals these days.

    The Yankees won't make him available because the return wouldn't be equal to what is given up.
    Are you missing the Carlos Beltran analogy? Is there any question that Cano is a more valuable player?

    I just don't think the Yankees are giving up prior to the deadline, unless they really tank for the next few weeks.
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