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  1. #101
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    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    That's what you get when you try to save money; it shouldn't really be that surprising. Although Cano's numbers are surprising. But I'll bet they won't bring up kids so long as they think the veterans are going to "turn it around".

  2. #102
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    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ZIM 2002 View Post
    That's what you get when you try to save money; it shouldn't really be that surprising. Although Cano's numbers are surprising. But I'll bet they won't bring up kids so long as they think the veterans are going to "turn it around".
    I would think Tex should turn it around. He did not have a spring training this year. But as far as Wells, Hafner, Youkilis and Overbay are concerned. We might have already seen the best of their season.

  3. #103

    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    The worst offense in baseball (the Marlins) = 3.0 runs per game. Over the last 19 games, the Yankees are averaging 2.8 runs per game.

    I don't care how many washed up guys you have in your lineup, you should be able to scratch out more than 3 runs a game. Literally a AAA roster could face major league pitching and average 3 runs per game.

    I understand some of these guys aren't what they used to be, but even washed up guys hit a little. Even this Yankee lineup... guys like Ichiro, Wells, Hafner, Teixeira, Cano... should have no problem putting up 3+ runs per game. Chris Ianetta, a .209 hitter coming into last night's game, was 2 for 3 with 2 RBI. Vernon Wells, even at this stage, is better than Chris Ianetta, but he's got 2 RBI in 19 games.

    Something is seriously wrong here.

    Adams gets called up and hits like a champ. Wells, Overbay, Youkilis, and Hafner all come to the Yankees and hit great for a month, hitting the ball to all fields with quality, level swings. Tex comes to the Yankees and hits .292 (.948 OPS) his first season.

    Adams goes ice cold. Wells, Overbay, Youk, Hafner suddenly can't buy a hit - they all look like they're swinging for the fences every time up. Tex has become a dead pull .230 hitter with an .800 OPS (at best). Robinson Cano, oft described as one of the best pure hitters in the game, struggles to hit with RISP and goes into prolonged slumps at an age where he should be still near his peak.

    Pitchers exploit our hitters up and down the lineup with off speed pitches and/or breaking balls, especially once men get on base. We disappear in the playoffs. We can't hit when it counts. Stars underachieve, young players get worse. But Brett Gardner is getting better, right? Well... In 2010 he played nearly a full year (at age 26), batting .277, .383 OBP, and a .762 OPS. He has a career .354 career OBP. This year he looks great, but his OBP is down (.353) and his OPS is only slightly improved (.801) thanks to a few more HR. So he hasn't really improved since entering his prime. Derek Jeter looked washed up a few years ago and worked with Gary Denbo during a DL stint. He came back and looked like a 30 year old again.

    Fire the coaching staff. Rant over.

  4. #104
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    More home runs, please.

  5. #105
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    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    [QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    The worst offense in baseball (the Marlins) =
    3.0 runs per game. Over the last 19 games, the Yankees are averaging 2.8 runs
    per game.

    I don't care how many washed up guys you have in your lineup, you should be
    able to scratch out more than 3 runs a game. Literally a AAA roster could face
    major league pitching and average 3 runs per game.
    Our offense sucks, I give you that. However, 1/3 of MLB teams do not score "more than three runs a game". And no, a minor league club could not average 3 runs per gaem.




    I understand some of these guys aren't what they used to be, but even washed
    up guys hit a little. Even this Yankee lineup... guys like Ichiro, Wells,
    Hafner, Teixeira, Cano... should have no problem putting up 3+ runs per game.
    Chris Ianetta, a .209 hitter coming into last night's game, was 2 for 3 with 2
    RBI. Vernon Wells, even at this stage, is better than Chris Ianetta, but he's
    got 2 RBI in 19 games.





    Something is seriously wrong here.
    Correct. We are not a good offensive baseball team.
    Goin for 2<strike>7</strike>8!

  6. #106
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    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    Not surprising. Just too many guys over the hill.

  7. #107

    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by goin for 27 View Post
    Our offense sucks, I give you that. However, 1/3 of MLB teams do not score "more than three runs a game".
    What? Every single major league team is averaging more than 3 runs per game. All 30 of them. 29 of them are averaging 3.5 runs per game or better (the Marlins being the lone exception). 20 of them are over 4.0 runs per game.

    And no, a minor league club could not average 3 runs per gaem.
    Debatable. The Marlins lineup might as well be a AAA lineup, have no DH, play in a pitcher's park, and they average over 3 runs a game with a .230 BA and .612 OPS. The Buffalo Bisons lead the International League with an .801 team OPS (.276 team average, 5.2 runs per game). Call up that entire team, give them a few months to adjust, and see if they can't manage a .600 OPS and come close to 3 runs a game. That would be awful, yes, but it would still be more runs per game than the Yankees have scored over the past 19 or so games.

    Correct. We are not a good offensive baseball team.
    Never said they were. But they are better than this. They are better than the Marlins, but for the last 19 games, they're scoring worse than the Marlins (the lowest scoring team in the game, a team in the NL, in a pitcher's park with a roster of people you've mostly never heard of).

    I'm just saying this team is not getting the most from its players. Even with the natural expected decline of players, and taking into account career stats and career trends, this team should be scoring more than they are. It's a team-wide failure to perform up to capability that's been lingering over this offense since 2010. A team-wide refusal to hit the ball where it's pitched is a huge part of the problem. It's no coincidence that about the only two players to hit in the 2012 playoffs were Derek Jeter and Ichiro - the only two guys we had who were regularly willing to go to the opposite field.

    Baseball is a changing game. Hitters who try to pull everything are finding that scouting reports, outside pitches, off-speed pitches, and pull shifts are killing them. If the coaching staff won't help make team-wide adjustments in regard to that, and hitters continue to want to pull everything they can reach, then they're going to underachieve. Dead pull hitters are suffering ugly death. Wells, Overbay, Hafner, Youk, Cano... when the season was young, all of these guys were willing to go opposite field (or at least back up the middle) on pitches away, sometimes regularly. For over a month now, they haven't, and it seems like they're swinging too hard and trying to pull everything. And nobody should be shocked that the only two guys consistently doing anything over the past few weeks are Gardner and Ichiro, who regularly put the ball in play to the opposite field.

  8. #108

    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    Something is seriously wrong here.

    Adams gets called up and hits like a champ. Wells, Overbay, Youkilis, and Hafner all come to the Yankees and hit great for a month, hitting the ball to all fields with quality, level swings. Tex comes to the Yankees and hits .292 (.948 OPS) his first season.

    Adams goes ice cold. Wells, Overbay, Youk, Hafner suddenly can't buy a hit - they all look like they're swinging for the fences every time up. Tex has become a dead pull .230 hitter with an .800 OPS (at best). Robinson Cano, oft described as one of the best pure hitters in the game, struggles to hit with RISP and goes into prolonged slumps at an age where he should be still near his peak.

    Pitchers exploit our hitters up and down the lineup with off speed pitches and/or breaking balls, especially once men get on base. We disappear in the playoffs. We can't hit when it counts. Stars underachieve, young players get worse. But Brett Gardner is getting better, right? Well... In 2010 he played nearly a full year (at age 26), batting .277, .383 OBP, and a .762 OPS. He has a career .354 career OBP. This year he looks great, but his OBP is down (.353) and his OPS is only slightly improved (.801) thanks to a few more HR. So he hasn't really improved since entering his prime. Derek Jeter looked washed up a few years ago and worked with Gary Denbo during a DL stint. He came back and looked like a 30 year old again.

    Fire the coaching staff. Rant over.

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    Here's Joe after last night's loss to the Angels:

    Good to know he's watching a different team than I am. Cano hasn't had a double to LF in forever. Wells, Tex, Hafner, Youkilis, Overbay... they've all stopped trying to put balls in play in favor of bigger swings. If Girardi thinks the team's approach hasn't changed since the first month of the season, he's not paying enough attention. He just doesn't realize that a hands-off attitude isn't right for every player. Sometimes guys need to be told to cut down on their swings, hit to the opposite field, or get in the cage and practice those specific things. Teixeira is 3-33 batting left handed... with the shift, he is being given a free single (maybe even double) every time up if he would slap a ball to the left side (let alone bunt). Make him try it. It's time to put egos and big contracts aside and worry about the team winning some games. These kid gloves aren't cutting it with some guys.


    ^the more exuberant your rants, the falser they become. Cano hit a oppo double down the line just this past Wed. I was at the game. I can't watch as many games as I used to these days but I can tell you're constructing a narrative to fit into the same yankee fan apocalyptic stuff fans always do.

    tex has declined, yes. it's probably his skill that has declined, not mechanical/approach

    cano is coming out of a simple hitter's slump. this past week, he hit:
    .350 .500 .650 1.150

    even over the last month, as he has slumped, check out his walk rate
    .253 .381 .425 .806

    Gardner has improved in terms of offensive output. he had to change his style cause teams were throwing him too many strikes. now he walks less, but also ends up in better counts (fewer 0-2 counts) and hits for more power (not just HR; he's leading the team in doubles).

    Wells is exactly who has been for the past 5 or so years

    Ichiro is who he has been for the past 3 or so years

    Adams went into a slump because he refused to walk. he'll get out of it because he's a talented kid.

    Hafner is a messy case. Over the last week, he's had a BABIP of .000. Over the last 2 weeks, .095. I feel like he's had some bad luck mixed with some of a slump.

    Youk's physically done. any sox fan (red or white) could've told you this. if he was healthy, he'd be hitting.

    Jeter is a freak and HOFer. that said, he is nowhere the hitter he used to be. when he was 30, he had an iso of .179. since 2008, his isos have been .107, .131, .100, .92, and .113. he's essentially become pre-2013 Gardner when it comes to power.

    as per your point about the team getting schooled by breaking balls... the only pitch-types that the team has a positive value on are curveballs (+.72) and change-ups (+.15). they perform worst against sinkers(-1.50), cutters(-1.03), sliders(-.93), and fastballs(-.23), in that order, i.e., the fast pitches with least movement.


    see, this is an almost-as-negative interpretation of this team's current condition, but it avoids the borderline conspiracy-theory-ism that you're dabbling in. for those that had their eyes open, this was a bad-to-mediocre hitting team on opening day, despite the games they won. they're a bad-to-mediocre hitting team now.
    like delv, but better

  9. #109
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    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    Hard to add anything substantive to the comments already made, except to echo the many frustrations here. This team, as assembled, was not ever going to be a good offensive team. It was merely an effort to construct a team whose primary objective was not to improve its performance, but rather to meet the new payroll restrictions. Rolling the dice on washed up veterans who wouldn't cost much on the off chance that they might suddenly turn it around for one last time is leading to predictable consequences. This offense is about as bad as many of us feared it would be. Our only hope is that the pitching holds it together enough to win a healthy share of low scoring games.
    Yankee fan living in Maine.

  10. #110

    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    lol at Wells being better than Iannetta.

    one has had wRC+s of 111, 107, and 106 the last three seasons (even if they've had some issues, limiting the sample sizes). the other has had 75, 88, and 79. guess which one we have?

  11. #111
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    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    What? Every single major league team is averaging more than 3 runs per game. All 30 of them. 29 of them are averaging 3.5 runs per game or better (the Marlins being the lone exception). 20 of them are over 4.0 runs per game.
    Sorry. I interpreted your post wrong. When you say a team should be able to "scratch out more than 3 runs per game" I took it to mean 4 or more, since you can't scratch out 3.2 runs, etc.
    Goin for 2<strike>7</strike>8!

  12. #112
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    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    ... YES Network researcher Jeff Quagliata came up with an interesting nugget: The Yankees now have their second streak of at least seven games without scoring more than four runs. Last time they had two such streaks in the same season was 1991.
    http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2013/06/1...game-notes-64/

  13. #113

    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by goin for 27 View Post
    Sorry. I interpreted your post wrong. When you say a team should be able to "scratch out more than 3 runs per game" I took it to mean 4 or more, since you can't scratch out 3.2 runs, etc.
    Oh my mistake. I was always thinking "rate" in my head (runs a game = runs per game) in which case 3.00001 runs > 3 runs.

    Quote Originally Posted by SatchelPaigeYankee View Post
    ^the more exuberant your rants, the falser they become. Cano hit a oppo double down the line just this past Wed. I was at the game. I can't watch as many games as I used to these days but I can tell you're constructing a narrative to fit into the same yankee fan apocalyptic stuff fans always do.
    I'll just say that one opposite field double from Cano over the span of a month or so doesn't mean he's trying to do that all the time, nor does it mean that his hitting approach has been sound. It means he had one opposite field double in a long span without any. It's a fluke, not the norm. You being at the game doesn't somehow make an observation of a rare occurrence mean more.

    tex has declined, yes. it's probably his skill that has declined, not mechanical/approach
    Except the numbers suggest he's changed his approach. The charts shows that he used to go to the opposide/middle of the field more often, both before he came to the Yankees and during his first year with the Yankees (as a lefty hitter). In the last couple years, his opposite filed + center balls in play and hits have decreased.

    cano is coming out of a simple hitter's slump. this past week, he hit:
    .350 .500 .650 1.150
    "simple" hitter's slump? What exactly is that? Cano should be a .330 hitter. He's got one of the best pure swings in the game, and when he's "right" he's one of the best hitters period. So why does he slump for a MONTH at a time?

    even over the last month, as he has slumped, check out his walk rate
    .253 .381 .425 .806
    So? During that stretch, he had 15 walks, but four of them were intentional. He's got more Ks during that stretch (16) than regular walks (11), and he hit just 3 doubles. On the season, he's batting .259 with RISP, .235 late and close, .195 in tie games... There's something wrong with the way a hitter with that much talent is approaching the game.

    Gardner has improved in terms of offensive output. he had to change his style cause teams were throwing him too many strikes. now he walks less, but also ends up in better counts (fewer 0-2 counts) and hits for more power (not just HR; he's leading the team in doubles).
    He's improved slightly in terms of output. But 2010 was still a pretty similar year in average and higher in OBP. And he should be getting better - perhaps a lot better, at his age vs. age 25/26 when he had very little experience under his belt.

    Wells is exactly who has been for the past 5 or so years
    But over the last month he's been a .250-ish OPS hitter (yes, .250 OPS) and he's better than that. Maybe he's only a .650 OPS guy now, but .650 is more than .250. I'm saying that for this last month where he's batting under .100, his approach has changed and nobody on the coaching staff appears to either see that or help him at least get back to being what he "should" be - a .650 OPS guy.


    Ichiro is who he has been for the past 3 or so years
    Exactly. he's one of the few playing (lately) like expected.

    Adams went into a slump because he refused to walk. he'll get out of it because he's a talented kid.
    He refused to walk? Did you ask him and he declined? How come with Cano a month-long slump is just a "simple hitter's slump" but Adams slump for two weeks is because he refused to walk?

    Hafner is a messy case. Over the last week, he's had a BABIP of .000. Over the last 2 weeks, .095. I feel like he's had some bad luck mixed with some of a slump.
    Now you're using feelings to suggest a reason for things. If we're allowed to do that, I feel that Hafner's shoulder is still bugging him, which is part of the problem, but I also don't see him serving the ball to left field as much as he did on occasion early on.

    Youk's physically done. any sox fan (red or white) could've told you this. if he was healthy, he'd be hitting.
    Probably.

    Jeter is a freak and HOFer. that said, he is nowhere the hitter he used to be. when he was 30, he had an iso of .179. since 2008, his isos have been .107, .131, .100, .92, and .113. he's essentially become pre-2013 Gardner when it comes to power.
    I'm just pointing out that he was a .270 (.683 OPS) hitter in the first half of 2011 after Kevin Long changed a bunch of things about Jeter's stance or something. Then he went on the DL and visited Gary Denbo. He came back and batted .330 (.811 OPS) in the 2nd half, then batted .316 (.791 OPS) last year.

    as per your point about the team getting schooled by breaking balls... the only pitch-types that the team has a positive value on are curveballs (+.72) and change-ups (+.15). they perform worst against sinkers(-1.50), cutters(-1.03), sliders(-.93), and fastballs(-.23), in that order, i.e., the fast pitches with least movement.
    I'm mostly talking about the last couple years that change ups have killed us, and we've killed fastballs. I'm not sure the exact numbers, but we were near the bottom of the league against change ups last year, but blew everyone out of the water against fastballs. We're geared to fastballs and almost nothing else.

    And this season that wasn't the case... in the beginning. Then for perhaps a month now, pitchers with bad ERAs and decent off speed pitches are killing us like we're the 2011/2012 Yankee postseason offense again (as soon as there's a RISP, the soft stuff comes out and Tex, Wells, Cano, et al swing like fools).

    see, this is an almost-as-negative interpretation of this team's current condition, but it avoids the borderline conspiracy-theory-ism that you're dabbling in. for those that had their eyes open, this was a bad-to-mediocre hitting team on opening day, despite the games they won. they're a bad-to-mediocre hitting team now.
    Suggesting that a coaching staff is responsible for not getting the most out of underachieving players is a "borderline conspiracy theory?" Wow.

    Well, I'm about to go full-on tin foil hat: To my crazy conspiracy-seeking eyes, I see a team-wide lack of a sound hitting approach that's permeated this offense (for a couple years), something that wasn't happening in the first half of this young season (especially with a lot of the "new guys"). In the second half of this young season, this team looks like the team I watched over the last 2-3 years, a team that swings for the fences too often in clutch situations, a team that struggles to hit in the clutch because opposing scouts have identified the Yankees lack of a quality hitting approach in said situations and know exactly what pitches to throw. And my crazy nut-job conclusion is that maybe Kevin Long and/or Joe Girardi have no flipping clue how to work with these hitters on putting a ball in play where it's pitched with 2 strikes, or how to stay back on the ball to put it back through the box or to the opposite field, for example. And my crazy, conspiracy-ridden conclusion is that perhaps a change of coaches might improve some of these guys, including Cano (and not just the current team but many other quality players of the past and future), so that they perform better.

    They might be a bad-to-mediocre hitting team, but they're hitting like literally the worst offense in the major leagues for a month now. My crazy theory is that they shouldn't be so bad. They're not great, they're not going to score 5+ per game, but they should be doing more.

    I could be wrong.

  14. #114
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    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    ^^^ *standing ovation*
    Reppin the Pinstripes in DC (thanks grandpa)/Hail to the Redskins/Rock the Red (Go Caps)/Joakim Noah = 2013 DPOY

  15. #115

    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    Kevin Long needs to go. The offense is going in reverse at warp speed.

  16. #116
    Brien "The Incident" just-blaze's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    I'd kill for a guy who could give us below average production at the plate.

    I don't know what this is, but it's worse than that.
    Fistpumping like a champion.

  17. #117

    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by just-blaze View Post
    I'd kill for a guy who could give us below average production at the plate.

    I don't know what this is, but it's worse than that.
    Cashman's hard work at play.

  18. #118
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    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    It is beyond frustrating watching this Yankee team get absolutely dominated by mediocre pitching as the Yankees flail away at 1st pitches, pitches out of the zone, weak pop-ups, runners left in scoring position with less than 2 outs, getting a maximum of 4 hits a game, etc....I keep saying to myself that the law of averages will catch-up but with the back-ups that the Yankees are forced to use as starters daily, that day seems so far away.

  19. #119
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    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    The 2 run Yankees, as they are currently known around baseball.

  20. #120
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    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    This might be the worst hitting Yankees team I have ever seen in my 50+ years of watching them play. Even the 1967, 1968 could score more than 2 runs a game.

  21. #121
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    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    I was just thinking the same thing. I was trying to remember a worse run producing team I've witnessed in my entire life.
    I'd have to go back to the mid-late 60's or early 70's I think.

  22. #122
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    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    They make the 1989-92 Yankees lineups look like offensive juggernauts

  23. #123
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    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    What juice does Kevin Long have on the Steinbrenner's to still have his job?

  24. #124
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    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    That's a good question, that has no good answer.

  25. #125
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    Re: 2013 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.roy View Post
    I was just thinking the same thing. I was trying to remember a worse run producing team I've witnessed in my entire life.
    I'd have to go back to the mid-late 60's or early 70's I think.
    Actually the early 70's team could score runs. The team won 93 games in 1970 and contended for all of 1972 and about 4 months of 1973. The 71 team could score but had a terrible bullpen.
    Not saying they were like the mid 70's pennant winners but they could score more than the current team seems to be able to.

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