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  1. #601

    Re: 2013 Robinson Cano performance thread

    So, I'm doing some math. If you take what they've paid Cano up until now (57,871,800 [bref.com]), he's cost 7,233,975 a season for eight seasons.

    So let's say he gets 8/200 (which is what I'm guessing he will). If he gets that, and you add up all he's gotten paid, what he will get paid, and divide it over 16 seasons (which is how long the Yankees will have had Cano for), he'll have been paid roughly 16.1m a season.

    ...is that really that bad? If you break it down, it's essentially two 8/130m contracts. For his production, that seems really good.

    Yeah, I know that's not how AAV works and all that jazz. I'm just trying to look at it from a value perspective. If he gets paid 200m, they're not really giving all the value back on the contract. I think it's more or less evening out what he has been paid to what he has produced.

    I hope that makes sense.
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  2. #602
    Movin' on Bub's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 Robinson Cano performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    So, I'm doing some math. If you take what they've paid Cano up until now (57,871,800 [bref.com]), he's cost 7,233,975 a season for eight seasons.

    So let's say he gets 8/200 (which is what I'm guessing he will). If he gets that, and you add up all he's gotten paid, what he will get paid, and divide it over 16 seasons (which is how long the Yankees will have had Cano for), he'll have been paid roughly 16.1m a season.

    ...is that really that bad? If you break it down, it's essentially two 8/130m contracts. For his production, that seems really good.

    Yeah, I know that's not how AAV works and all that jazz. I'm just trying to look at it from a value perspective. If he gets paid 200m, they're not really giving all the value back on the contract. I think it's more or less evening out what he has been paid to what he has produced.

    I hope that makes sense.
    I don't think you can look at it this way. Great players are supposed to be relatively cheap in their early years, and their reward is a fat long term contract in free agency. I consider the next 5 or 6 years to be the fat contract years, not the next 8 to 10.
    Let the kids play.

  3. #603

    Re: 2013 Robinson Cano performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hardrain View Post
    I say let him walk. With the way he hustles, he won't get too far.
    Hey, I got another "original" one: with Cano's lack of hustle, the door probably WOULD hit him in his ass on his way out.
    Roger Maris = single season "natural" home-run record-holder.

  4. #604

    Re: 2013 Robinson Cano performance thread

    @Bub
    But if you're looking at the value of a player, you have to look at over the course of their career, right?
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  5. #605
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    Re: 2013 Robinson Cano performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    So, I'm doing some math. If you take what they've paid Cano up until now (57,871,800 [bref.com]), he's cost 7,233,975 a season for eight seasons.

    So let's say he gets 8/200 (which is what I'm guessing he will). If he gets that, and you add up all he's gotten paid, what he will get paid, and divide it over 16 seasons (which is how long the Yankees will have had Cano for), he'll have been paid roughly 16.1m a season.

    ...is that really that bad? If you break it down, it's essentially two 8/130m contracts. For his production, that seems really good.

    Yeah, I know that's not how AAV works and all that jazz. I'm just trying to look at it from a value perspective. If he gets paid 200m, they're not really giving all the value back on the contract. I think it's more or less evening out what he has been paid to what he has produced.

    I hope that makes sense.
    Yeah it makes sense, but you should pay someone for something based on the value you WILL get, not on the value you got in the past.

    Did the Yankees get a bargain on Cano until now? Yes. And if he wants to cash in on that, if I was the GM, I would understand that, but I would not give him an 8-year deal worth that much, because at the end, I will be getting a bad deal.

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  6. #606

    Re: 2013 Robinson Cano performance thread

    I know I'm assuming he'll be a great player for 2-4 more years and the backend of the deal probably wouldn't be pretty. I'm just thinking, at the end of the contract, would he be worse than signing a guy at, essentially, a qualifying offer (following career salary avg)?
    EvilEmpireDC: Fans bitch about anything lol

  7. #607
    Movin' on Bub's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 Robinson Cano performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    @Bub
    But if you're looking at the value of a player, you have to look at over the course of their career, right?
    I don't believe so. If that were the case and Cano signed a big deal and didn't live up to it, you wouldn't find anybody going back to his years prior to the new contract and calling it even. Owners are supposed to get the occasional great player for a bargain price until they're eligible for free agency. They can offer more than they have to, and often do that, just to be somewhat fair. So overpaying to make up for prior years doesn't happen, although overpaying for later years of a new contract just to seal the deal does happen, usually with bad consequences. Averaging or normalizing an entire career to justify overpaying on a late contract doesn't serve any purpose, especially if a player goes to a new team.
    Let the kids play.

  8. #608
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    Re: 2013 Robinson Cano performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RogerNatural View Post
    Hey, I got another "original" one: with Cano's lack of hustle, the door probably WOULD hit him in his ass on his way out.

    Hahahahahahaha
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  9. #609

    Re: 2013 Robinson Cano performance thread

    We're too stuck on averages. The best way to think of these overloaded contracts is we'd have to pay 30+, maybe even 40+ per if we wanted to sign Cano for only 4-5 years. The later years are tacked on so the short term financial hit isn't so severe.

  10. #610
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    Re: 2013 Robinson Cano performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    @Bub
    But if you're looking at the value of a player, you have to look at over the course of their career, right?
    Not really. You look at last three seasons and age. Who cares what a player did 5, 6, 7 years ago?
    Goin for 2<strike>7</strike>8!

  11. #611
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    Re: 2013 Robinson Cano performance thread

    Steinbrenner apparently has told Cano, "No", to a 10 year deal. He also said, "Is anybody an absolute must-to-sign? No. And that's nothing against Robby. [It's] just not reasonable to assume that about anybody."

    “I don’t feel this organization is ready to do something like that,” Steinbrenner said on ESPN New York 98.7 FM's "The Michael Kay Show."

    “No, I do not. We’ll see. I know that is a number that is out there now. We’ll see if he gets it, how much he wants to be in New York," Steinbrenner said. "But, again, I can promise it is going to be a very, very solid offer that we do make because we are going to try. We are going to try the best we can to keep him.”


    http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/stor...l-steinbrenner

  12. #612
    Slow in, Fast out ThePinStripes's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 Robinson Cano performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    We're too stuck on averages. The best way to think of these overloaded contracts is we'd have to pay 30+, maybe even 40+ per if we wanted to sign Cano for only 4-5 years. The later years are tacked on so the short term financial hit isn't so severe.
    Luxury tax focuses on average.
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  13. #613
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    Re: 2013 Robinson Cano performance thread

    I wonder if the Tigers lose tonight, will it force Mike Ilitech to open up the vault for Cano?

  14. #614

    Re: 2013 Robinson Cano performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    Luxury tax focuses on average.
    That reinforces the argument. Signing Cano (and some other super star after him) to 30~40m a year for 5 years would hit us harder financially.

  15. #615
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    Re: 2013 Robinson Cano performance thread

    As much as I like Cano, and as much as I think the Yankee offense is in dire need of keeping him there, I have a hard time seeing him fit into the team's financial direction. If they're really going to field a team with a cap on the funds, how much is it really worth investing here? Is Cano the kind of player that carries this team?
    Yankee fan living in Maine.

  16. #616

    Re: 2013 Robinson Cano performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by eaganmafia View Post
    I wonder if the Tigers lose tonight, will it force Mike Ilitech to open up the vault for Cano?

    Doubt it, especially if this is true http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/...er-this-winter
    Ain't it EVIL to LIVE backwards

  17. #617
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    Re: 2013 Robinson Cano performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by apalradio View Post
    As much as I like Cano, and as much as I think the Yankee offense is in dire need of keeping him there, I have a hard time seeing him fit into the team's financial direction. If they're really going to field a team with a cap on the funds, how much is it really worth investing here? Is Cano the kind of player that carries this team?

    I think what it really boils down to is whether A-Rod gets suspended for at least the 2014 season. From my understanding, if he does, in essence it will end his career and force some type of contract buy-out. (Not too many 40yr old guys can come back after two years of not playing, having the physical limitations that A-Rod will surely have by 2015). Also, the $25M owed in 2014 and the approximate $61M remaining will not count against the Yankees "luxury-taxable" payroll, opening up all types of spending possibilities and still staying under $189M in 2014.

    In other words, who would you rather have/play/pay in 2014-2017, Cano or A-Rod?

    IMO if Cano's smart and wants to stay with the Yankees, he'll wait until the whole A-Rod issue has been settled.
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  18. #618
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 Robinson Cano performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    I think what it really boils down to is whether A-Rod gets suspended for at least the 2014 season. From my understanding, if he does, in essence it will end his career and force some type of contract buy-out. (Not too many 40yr old guys can come back after two years of not playing, having the physical limitations that A-Rod will surely have by 2015). Also, the $25M owed in 2014 and the approximate $61M remaining will not count against the Yankees "luxury-taxable" payroll, opening up all types of spending possibilities and still staying under $189M in 2014.

    In other words, who would you rather have/play/pay in 2014-2017, Cano or A-Rod?

    IMO if Cano's smart and wants to stay with the Yankees, he'll wait until the whole A-Rod issue has been settled.
    I'm dubious that A-Rod is going to lose all of 2014, and I'm also not so certain he's going to take a buy-out (especially this offseason). At this point the team owes him a boatload of money, and this process gives me the sense that he is going to try and get every last penny of his contract.
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  19. #619
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    Re: 2013 Robinson Cano performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    I think what it really boils down to is whether A-Rod gets suspended for at least the 2014 season. From my understanding, if he does, in essence it will end his career and force some type of contract buy-out. (Not too many 40yr old guys can come back after two years of not playing, having the physical limitations that A-Rod will surely have by 2015). .
    There is one chance at a buyout - Yanks pay full remaining salary, and ARod walks away. He won't accept a penny less.
    Goin for 2<strike>7</strike>8!

  20. #620
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    Re: 2013 Robinson Cano performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by goin for 27 View Post
    There is one chance at a buyout - Yanks pay full remaining salary, and ARod walks away. He won't accept a penny less.
    At that point, an RO is preferable for the Yanks. Same economic effect, but some satisfaction/PR value. So he might give a (small) discount to avoid that on his résumé.
    "Deep to left! Yastrzemski will not get it! It's a home run! A three-run homer by Bucky Dent! And the Yankees now lead by a score of 3-2!" - New York Yankees announcer Bill White (October 2, 1978)

  21. #621

    Re: 2013 Robinson Cano performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by apalradio View Post
    As much as I like Cano, and as much as I think the Yankee offense is in dire need of keeping him there, I have a hard time seeing him fit into the team's financial direction. If they're really going to field a team with a cap on the funds, how much is it really worth investing here? Is Cano the kind of player that carries this team?
    No. Mattingly and Winfield couldn't do much with what else was on the team. I think Cano and Texiera even less so.
    Roger Maris = single season "natural" home-run record-holder.

  22. #622

    Re: 2013 Robinson Cano performance thread

    bidding against themselves. cano's got the yankees right where he wants dem
    always reasonable

  23. #623

    Re: 2013 Robinson Cano performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    bidding against themselves. cano's got the yankees right where he wants dem
    They were going to do that anyway. The Yankees are champs at bidding against themselves. It might be good if the Dodgers aren't in it driving up prices, but either way, they're going to panic at the end and offer way too much. I just really don't want a 41-year-old Cano on this team, no matter how great the 31-year-old Cano is. Haven't we learned our lesson?

    Regarding the A-Rod-or-Cano question, I think it's not even worth speculating. I've said this before, but whether we like it or not, A-Rod is going NOWHERE. Even if the whole suspension is upheld, he'll be back right afterwards, and if he isn't good enough to play anymore, he will sit on the bench and collect every last penny he's owed. No way he will take early retirement.

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