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  1. #101
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    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nnysiny View Post
    cue the freakouts...
    Not freaking out, but it is a bummer to watch. In past years, a couple of early runs were lethal with CC on the hill. Now, not so much....
    Goin for 2<strike>7</strike>8!

  2. #102
    Big Poppa dabomb2045's Avatar
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    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    Its pretty clear at this point his velocity is gonna hover around 90-91 going forward. The days of him going higher then that are over.

  3. #103

    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    I should be thrilled that it's May 20 and this is the first time this season I'm yelling at Girardi through my TV set. But I'm more upset with Joe not seeing how obvious it was that CC should have been taken out.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  4. #104
    Brien "The Incident" just-blaze's Avatar
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    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    The fact that CC is leaving sliders over the plate and pitching retarded (which might be a Romine problem) is 20 times more concerning than his loss in velocity.
    Fistpumping like a champion.

  5. #105
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nnysiny View Post
    cue the freakouts...
    He's approaching giving up nearly 10H/9. What would you rather discuss?

  6. #106

    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    I should be thrilled that it's May 20 and this is the first time this season I'm yelling at Girardi through my TV set. But I'm more upset with Joe not seeing how obvious it was that CC should have been taken out.
    I don't really have a problem with him being left out there....CC is learning a new approach on the fly, given they are playing a bit with house money right now in the standings, and given hughes is likely to need a lot of help tomorrow night out of the pen...all things considered, I would have left him out there too.

    If it was a playoff game or a pennant home stretch type of game, different story...

  7. #107
    Brien "The Incident" just-blaze's Avatar
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    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DrNick View Post
    And Alexi Casilla
    Casilla has always hit him, but nonetheless the point stands. He either doesn't do his homework against opposing rosters or somehow the scrub bench player on every team is his kryptonite.
    Fistpumping like a champion.

  8. #108

    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    He's approaching giving up nearly 10H/9. What would you rather discuss?
    My guess is he'd rather discuss other posters?


  9. #109
    Brien "The Incident" just-blaze's Avatar
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    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dabomb2045 View Post
    Its pretty clear at this point his velocity is gonna hover around 90-91 going forward. The days of him going higher then that are over.
    Not really, most pitchers have their velocities peak in the summer. That being said his velocity is going down and there is nothing anybody can do about it.
    Fistpumping like a champion.

  10. #110

    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    He must be allergic to holding leads.

  11. #111

    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    Ccttp


  12. #112
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    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by just-blaze View Post
    The fact that CC is leaving sliders over the plate and pitching retarded (which might be a Romine problem) is 20 times more concerning than his loss in velocity.
    This.

  13. #113
    Legend DJ27's Avatar
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    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    He is our #2/3 starter right now.
    Speak softly but carry a big stick.

  14. #114
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    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    Not sure what to think at this point. He really is giving up a ton of hits but he's still pretty effective.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  15. #115

    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by just-blaze View Post
    The fact that CC is leaving sliders over the plate and pitching retarded (which might be a Romine problem) is 20 times more concerning than his loss in velocity.
    CC has always left sliders over the plate.

    He just won't get away with it as much going forward.

  16. #116
    Brien "The Incident" just-blaze's Avatar
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    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    CC has always left sliders over the plate.

    He just won't get away with it as much going forward.
    What? Thats not exactly true and ANY pitcher who leaves sliders over the plate is generally going to get beat up for the most part.
    Fistpumping like a champion.

  17. #117

    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by just-blaze View Post
    What? Thats not exactly true and ANY pitcher who leaves sliders over the plate is generally going to get beat up for the most part.
    http://www.fangraphs.com/heatmap.asp...ze=&inty=&pal=

    See for yourself. CC has always hung quite a few of his sliders. It's not because he has bad command... it's because he's aiming higher and going for strikes. So when it misses high, it becomes a hanger. More pedestrian pitchers aim lower and end up with a perfect strike when they miss high.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/heatmap.asp...ze=&inty=&pal=

    Cliff Lee too.

    These two guys rely on movement and speed differentials to get outs with their sliders. They really do hang quite a few of their sliders.

    Click on CC's other heatmaps too. The hottest zones for his fastballs are right down the middle and in the upper 2 thirds of the plate.

    CC attacks the hell out of the zone, this year especially. With velocity and movement down, he's getting hurt more than in the past. But you know what, with the Ks and IPs he's still on pace to give us, I could live with that.

  18. #118

    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    Semi-serious question. When the WIN METHOD guy was around, would he have argued that the fact the Yankees came back and won this game meant that CC was doing fine?
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  19. #119
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    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread


  20. #120
    NYYF Legend

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    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    That is a depressing (and very telling) graph.
    Goin for 2<strike>7</strike>8!

  21. #121
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    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    Not sure what to think at this point. He really is giving up a ton of hits but he's still pretty effective.
    Maybe this is the transitional part of CC's career - the part where a player cannot get it done the same way he has in the past. Unfortunately, the only way to find out what's going to work now is to go out there and try during a game. I am concerned, but not alarmed.

    I'm also beginning to wonder if the weight he lost is having more of an impact than I expected. Some guys just perform better with the extra lbs.
    September 28, 2008 - the day the HOF got a wake-up Moose call.

  22. #122

    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    Had trouble putting away hitter with 2k's.

  23. #123

    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    There is no doubt in my mind CC has been experimenting since last year to work with his diminished velocity. Last year he threw only 54% fastballs (34.7% four seam), by far the lowest of his career. He also threw only 47.9% of his pitches in the strike zone, lowest in his career. Both are strong indications he was shifting to become a more finesse pitcher with diminished fastball, which recorded -.73 wFB/c, worst of his career last year.

    He didn't seem to like that result very much, despite still a stellar season. This season, he switched to a different gear, throwing 57.2% fastballs with almost no sinkers. He is also attacking the zone more aggressively with 49.1% of his pitches in the zone. Both suggest he's reverting closer to his Yankees career norms somewhat. But with diminished velocity, pounding the zone with the fastball has been hurting CC. CC's fastball is clocking -1.04 wFB/c (giving up 1.04 runs extra per 100 thrown), worst of his career and 25th worst in 2013 among qualified starters on FG, out of 106.

    My guess is CC will adjust and accept with his diminished stuff he just has to nibble more than he is used to.

  24. #124
    Brien "The Incident" just-blaze's Avatar
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    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    http://www.fangraphs.com/heatmap.asp...ze=&inty=&pal=

    See for yourself. CC has always hung quite a few of his sliders. It's not because he has bad command... it's because he's aiming higher and going for strikes. So when it misses high, it becomes a hanger. More pedestrian pitchers aim lower and end up with a perfect strike when they miss high.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/heatmap.asp...ze=&inty=&pal=

    Cliff Lee too.

    These two guys rely on movement and speed differentials to get outs with their sliders. They really do hang quite a few of their sliders.

    Click on CC's other heatmaps too. The hottest zones for his fastballs are right down the middle and in the upper 2 thirds of the plate.

    CC attacks the hell out of the zone, this year especially. With velocity and movement down, he's getting hurt more than in the past. But you know what, with the Ks and IPs he's still on pace to give us, I could live with that.
    Fair enough, but heat maps don't show pitch movement or velocity which would be more important in determining if he hung a slider vs. attacked the zone.

    Also, I agree with the bolded (and pretty much everything you've stated), as long as CC gives us the production he has been this year, I could live with that.

    I was more mad at his pitch selection against Markakis last night.
    Fistpumping like a champion.

  25. #125
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    Re: CC Sabathia 2013 Performance Thread

    Well..................here's a big game for CC. Here's to hope...that he turns in a solid game so the Yankees can sweep the Rays out.
    Any games that they can gain on them will be important because with Tampa's pitching potential to turn in a great 2nd half of the season is a serious threat.
    They are goin' be there in the mix as the season winds down.

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