2013 Hal Steinbrenner Performance Thread

[apalradio]

Apologies if anyone's already started one of these, nut I didn't find one.

Hal's only capital with the fan base is his dad's legacy. On his own running this team, he has none. His accomplishments are yet to be measured, and his 2013 team is way more a reflection on him than it is on Cashman. So, it's fair to heap praise or throw dirt on the real architect of the New Yankees. Personally speaking so far, got a shovel here...

[sweet_lou_14]

Apologies if anyone's already started one of these, nut I didn't find one.

Hal's only capital with the fan base is his dad's legacy. On his own running this team, he has none. His accomplishments are yet to be measured, and his 2013 team is way more a reflection on him than it is on Cashman. So, it's fair to heap praise or throw dirt on the real architect of the New Yankees. Personally speaking so far, got a shovel here...

I'm not sure I can get on board with your premise.

As long as this team has the albatross of A-Rod's contract hanging from its balance sheet, it's not fair to say this roster is Hal's creation. That contract isn't even Cashman's doing. It's all Hank, maybe with some help from his curly-haired pal Randy.

Take A-Rod's contract off the books and we're not even talking about how cheap the Yankees are for trying to get under $189M ... we're not even debating whether they're going to keep Robinson Cano beyond this year ... etc., etc.

[snapple]

hey, i found the thread you could have posted this in

http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...ed-quot-Thread

[apalradio]

hey, i found the thread you could have posted this in

http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...ed-quot-Thread

So, you don't think it's fair to have a discussion about this?

[snapple]

Because it's been talked about in thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread....it's old and Hal doesn't really need his own thread.

[NerfBall55]

Take A-Rod's contract off the books and we're not even talking about how cheap the Yankees are for trying to get under $189M ... we're not even debating whether they're going to keep Robinson Cano beyond this year ... etc., etc.

And we may have Hamilton, Haren, or Greinke, or Swisher, or Cespedes....etc.

[-tz]

He's great at predicting the weather:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/20/sp...pagewanted=all

[apalradio]

Because it's been talked about in thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread....it's old and Hal doesn't really need his own thread.

Simple, don't visit this thread then.

[Benefactor]

I'm not sure I can get on board with your premise.

As long as this team has the albatross of A-Rod's contract hanging from its balance sheet, it's not fair to say this roster is Hal's creation. That contract isn't even Cashman's doing. It's all Hank, maybe with some help from his curly-haired pal Randy.

Take A-Rod's contract off the books and we're not even talking about how cheap the Yankees are for trying to get under $189M ... we're not even debating whether they're going to keep Robinson Cano beyond this year ... etc., etc.

When you nickel and dime a franchise that pulls in nearly 200+ million dollars a year in revenue after expenses, a number that seemingly grows by the millions every year, you're doing a crappy job. Sell the team please.

[Jax Teller]

When you nickel and dime a franchise that pulls in nearly 200+ million dollars a year in revenue after expenses, a number that seemingly grows by the millions every year, you're doing a crappy job. Sell the team please.

It's been only 5 months of fiscal restraint & you want him to sell the team? This fan base is awful.

[Benefactor]

It's been only 5 months of fiscal restraint & you want him to sell the team? This fan base is awful.

It actually started last year when Hal officially put the clamps down on Cashman's spending. This is just a precursor of things to come. This isn't about $189M and I thought that was pretty much understood. The owner doesn't care about the product on the field and as a Yankee fan, that's unacceptable . 2/3's of baseball would die to have New York's revenue stream to build a ball club around, yet most struggle to make ends meet. This isn't a problem the Yankees have to contend with but by the same token, if Hal thinks that New York can switch gears and operate like a small market team and succeed with high expectations, then he's in for a rude awakening.

[flymick24]

where's that picture of a penis when you need it?

[NerfBall55]

It actually started last year when Hal officially put the clamps down on Cashman's spending. This is just a precursor of things to come. This isn't about $189M and I thought that was pretty much understood. The owner doesn't care about the product on the field and as a Yankee fan, that's unacceptable . 2/3's of baseball would die to have New York's revenue stream to build a ball club around, yet most struggle to make ends meet. This isn't a problem the Yankees have to contend with but by the same token, if Hal thinks that New York can switch gears and operate like a small market team and succeed with high expectations, then he's in for a rude awakening.

It is about the 189, and the opportunity it represents.

[YankeePride1967]

I have no problem with the Yankees actually establishing a budget like the other 29 teams. Now maybe they can really work on developing a farm system.

[apalradio]

I have no problem with the Yankees actually establishing a budget like the other 29 teams. Now maybe they can really work on developing a farm system.

The truth is that 15 of the other 29 teams have increased payroll from last year. Yankee payroll increased by about 6%, but with a number of short term deals in place, and the mandate to cut spending, that increase is temporary and modest. The Dodgers are up over 120%, the Blue Jays are up over 50%, the Nationals are up nearly 40%, the Royals and Reds are up about 30%, and so on. The difference is that the Yankees have lost the flexibility to do much of anything to improve while other teams are loading up. I'm not advocating more spending, but right now this team is in a bit of trouble.

[JL25and3]

I have no problem with the Yankees actually establishing a budget like the other 29 teams. Now maybe they can really work on developing a farm system.

Unfortunately, they got it backwards. They should have built the farm system first, in order to have cheap replacements available when they started cutting MLB budget.

[YankeePride1967]

Unfortunately, they got it backwards. They should have built the farm system first, in order to have cheap replacements available when they started cutting MLB budget.

I agree with this. However, I wouldn't mind a few lean years. Filter out the fanbase.

[-tz]

I agree with this. However, I wouldn't mind a few lean years. Filter out the fanbase.

And give us better draft picks.

[Big_E]

The truth is that 15 of the other 29 teams have increased payroll from last year. Yankee payroll increased by about 6%, but with a number of short term deals in place, and the mandate to cut spending, that increase is temporary and modest. The Dodgers are up over 120%, the Blue Jays are up over 50%, the Nationals are up nearly 40%, the Royals and Reds are up about 30%, and so on. The difference is that the Yankees have lost the flexibility to do much of anything to improve while other teams are loading up. I'm not advocating more spending, but right now this team is in a bit of trouble.

I think if they can't win without spending $190 million or more, then they have a lot of problems. They bid against themselves for A-Rod when he opted out, and ended up giving him a raise and stupid incentives. If they signed people for decent amounts, instead of trying to overwhelm the market, they'd be in better shape.

[BRNXBMRS]

I think Hal has to get a pass. He really didnt gain full control of the entire team till Hank got out of the way. Hank gave Arod the contract. I do think that Hal has to shed himself of the laywers Levine & Trost and get baseball people in there. I also think that if Cashmans farm system doesnt start to show some fruit then he must be fired. I came of age when the Yanks sucked, so I was a fan when Len Sakata was playing 3b so a few years of sucking isnt going to bother me. IF it means letting Cano walk so be it. I dont want the Yanks hands tied with another bad contract when Cano is 37-39.

[Jace]

I think if they can't win without spending $190 million or more, then they have a lot of problems. They bid against themselves for A-Rod when he opted out, and ended up giving him a raise and stupid incentives. If they signed people for decent amounts, instead of trying to overwhelm the market, they'd be in better shape.

The incentives might actually be the least stupid part of the contract, because if he was hitting them, we'd be in better shape

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

I think Hal has to get a pass. He really didnt gain full control of the entire team till Hank got out of the way. Hank gave Arod the contract. I do think that Hal has to shed himself of the laywers Levine & Trost and get baseball people in there. I also think that if Cashmans farm system doesnt start to show some fruit then he must be fired. I came of age when the Yanks sucked, so I was a fan when Len Sakata was playing 3b so a few years of sucking isnt going to bother me. IF it means letting Cano walk so be it. I dont want the Yanks hands tied with another bad contract when Cano is 37-39.

Good Len Sakata reference.

They're really at a crossroads now, and I'm willing to take a couple bad years if it gets them on a better path. It seems they're trying to tread water -- a bunch of short term contracts while they let the farm mature (the Yankee version of "bridge years"). Unfortunately, the injuries already this year are putting them in a tough place with this strategy, and it will be a test for them if they can keep to it if it looks like they are going to miss the playoffs. If Hal really wants to operate differently, they're really going to have to hold on to the key prospects and see what they have (or trade them for other cost-controlled guys -- clearly the Yankees are OF prospect heavy).

[Big_E]

The incentives might actually be the least stupid part of the contract, because if he was hitting them, we'd be in better shape

Not really. He has 5 years left on his contract, and if he averages only 23 HR a year, he'll break Bonds' all-time record.

He gets $6,000,000 for each of:

HR #660
HR #714
HR #755
HR #762
HR #763

He's at 647. He'd need to average:

3 HR a Year to hit 660
14 HR a year to get to 714
22 HR a year to get to 755
23 HR a year to get to 762
23.2 HR a year to get to 763

The first two are gimmes and would do nothing for the team if he hits them. The others at this point are not a sure thing anymore, but a 3B averaging 24 HR a year is not worth the money he is going to get paid, and is probably at or below league average.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

Not really. He has 5 years left on his contract, and if he averages only 23 HR a year, he'll break Bonds' all-time record.

He gets $6,000,000 for each of:

HR #660
HR #714
HR #755
HR #762
HR #763

He's at 647. He'd need to average:

3 HR a Year to hit 660
14 HR a year to get to 714
22 HR a year to get to 755
23 HR a year to get to 762
23.2 HR a year to get to 763

The first two are gimmes and would do nothing for the team if he hits them. The others at this point are not a sure thing anymore, but a 3B averaging 24 HR a year is not worth the money he is going to get paid, and is probably at or below league average.

I think he's highly unlikely to average 24 HRs a year for the next 5 years, but only 3 AL 3rd baseman hit 24 or more HRs last year.

Yes, I think he's wildly overpaid, but it would be a pretty good thing for this team if he could somehow hit those milestones, given that the base contract is a sunk cost.

[BRNXBMRS]

I think he's highly unlikely to average 24 HRs a year for the next 5 years, but only 3 AL 3rd baseman hit 24 or more HRs last year.

Yes, I think he's wildly overpaid, but it would be a pretty good thing for this team if he could somehow hit those milestones, given that the base contract is a sunk cost.

I hope he doesnt get anywhere close to 714