View Poll Results: Do you think collisions at home plate should be banned?

Voters
57. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes - it's an unnecessary risk to player safety

    27 47.37%
  • No - it's part of the game

    26 45.61%
  • Undecided

    4 7.02%
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 111
  1. #1
    NYYF MVP

    The Comic Book Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA

    Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    Former catcher Mike Matheny both think so:

    "I'd just love to hear the rebuttal," Matheny said, "because what I've personally witnessed was enough for me to change my mind. It actually took me a little longer 'till I got to the realization of the risk we're putting these guys in -- and the runner, too. The runner is stuck in a spot sometimes where if he doesn't do it, he feels like he's let his team down. Take it out of their hands. This isn't a collision sport. There's enough of a physical grind with guys being out there for 162 games. We've got the physical aspect of this game. It doesn't need to include that one spot."
    "I understand old school, and I consider myself an old school player, as far as the way I go out and the way I was taught the game. I just don't see the sense in it."
    "We're talking about the brain," Matheny said. "It's just been so shoved under the rug. I didn't want to be the poster boy for this gig, but I was able to witness in ways I can't even explain to people how that altered by life for a short period of time and changed the person that I was. It's scary. So that being said, you look at this game, can this game survive without this play? And I say absolutely. You're putting people at risk."
    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...ticle_42009480

    I tend to agree. Joe Torre does not:

    MLB executive vice president Joe Torre said his view on collisions at home plate has not changed. Since a collision that ended Posey’s 2011 season, Bochy has publicly lobbied Torre to look into further protection for catchers.

    “I’m willing to listen and willing to talk,” Torre said. “If something makes sense, we’ll take it seriously. But my stance has not changed or softened.”
    http://blogs.mercurynews.com/giants/...with-catchers/

    What do you guys think?

  2. #2
    Pinpoint False1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Arizona

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Comic Book Guy View Post
    Former catcher Mike Matheny both think so:







    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...ticle_42009480

    I tend to agree. Joe Torre does not:



    http://blogs.mercurynews.com/giants/...with-catchers/

    What do you guys think?
    I'm torn on this one. How do you eliminate it? Runner automatically safe if the catcher blocks the plate? Guys could get hurt sliding into home as well... It's a good discussion point, but honestly I'm not sure how you eliminate it from the game. I'd give up the excitement of that type of play if a) the alternative was entirely safe and b) it didn't result in the offensive/defensive outcome being mandated by the rule.

  3. #3
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Too Close to Fenway

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    I'm torn on this one. How do you eliminate it? Runner automatically safe if the catcher blocks the plate? Guys could get hurt sliding into home as well... It's a good discussion point, but honestly I'm not sure how you eliminate it from the game. I'd give up the excitement of that type of play if a) the alternative was entirely safe and b) it didn't result in the offensive/defensive outcome being mandated by the rule.
    I agree that it's more complicated than it seems. You'd have to have some specific language around what was allowed and what wasn't for both the catcher and runner. Maybe the catcher can't block the plate if he doesn't have the ball? And the runner has to be trying to reach the plate rather than disrupt the catcher? I suspect this would get subjective like pass interference calls.
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  4. #4

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Fan in Boston View Post
    Maybe the catcher can't block the plate if he doesn't have the ball?
    That's actually the rule already, though obviously it's not enforced.

    But why would this be difficult to put in place? Wouldn't this just be the same as plays at any other base? Fielders can't block the bases, and runners can't bowl them over. Instances of runners or fielders claiming they were interfered with are pretty rare there, why would it be different at home? (Other than players having to get used to the change).

  5. #5
    NYYF Legend

    Yankee Tripper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Left coast

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    I'm torn on this one. How do you eliminate it?
    Same way the eliminated the barrel roll / deliberate takeout slide at 2nd base.

    One way would be if the runner lowers the shoulder or gives a forearm shiver to "take out the catcher" he's out all runners return to previously touched base and if you want to be serious, runner ejected from game. Pretty simple.

    Not saying that is best solution but it is one solution. I agree that baseball is not a contact sport. Incidental contact sometimes happens and is unavoidable but barreling over the catcher isn't incidental contact.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  6. #6
    NYYF Triple Crown

    StingrayJG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Shelton, CT

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    I can definitely understand the concern about injuries, etc. But I don't know how you'd really be able to go about curbing the problem without drastically modifying the game as it's known now. I mean, what would you do, ban the runner from leading with his shoulder or elbows when he's coming in to score, similar to the helmet to helmet rule in the NFL?
    I just don't know where you'd start here.
    Jimmy G. (Seniority 03/28/1994)
    1994-2008: Main Res MVP Sec. 14, Row G
    2009: Section 330, Row 6
    2010: Section 233A, Row 20
    2011: Section 229, Row 16 *All Sunday Plans*
    2012: No longer STH, liberated!

  7. #7

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    I've never really understood knocking the ball out of the glove. If the defensive player has control of the ball and makes the tag the runner should be out. What happens after that to the ball is inconsequential in terms of the out call. Make that rule and there's no more home plate jarring collisions.

  8. #8
    NYYF Legend

    Yankee Tripper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Left coast

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by StingrayJG View Post
    I mean, what would you do, ban the runner from leading with his shoulder or elbows when he's coming in to score, similar to the helmet to helmet rule in the NFL?
    Yes, exactly this.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  9. #9
    Pinpoint False1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Arizona

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Same way the eliminated the barrel roll / deliberate takeout slide at 2nd base.

    One way would be if the runner lowers the shoulder or gives a forearm shiver to "take out the catcher" he's out all runners return to previously touched base and if you want to be serious, runner ejected from game. Pretty simple.

    Not saying that is best solution but it is one solution. I agree that baseball is not a contact sport. Incidental contact sometimes happens and is unavoidable but barreling over the catcher isn't incidental contact.
    Yeah, but that could lead to judgment calls (unless we want replay on it), and also leads to runners getting caught in between just giving themselves up, sliding into a blocked plate, etc.

  10. #10

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    That would be a great way to segue replays into baseball.
    EvilEmpireDC: Fans bitch about anything lol

  11. #11
    Bazinga Hitman23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Long Island

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    I have felt this change has been necessary for a long time. With the info we have on concussions in all of sports, and the possible career ending injuries that could occur, I am all for eliminating it. Matheny is correct, the runner sprobably feel like they have to do it even if they don't want to. The catcher is at such a dangerous disadvantage it's just not necessary.
    Thank you, 2013-2014 New York Rangers for a great season!

    NYYFans Fantasy Baseball:
    CBS: Evil Empire
    Yahoo: Special OPS

  12. #12
    NYYF Legend

    Yankee Tripper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Left coast

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Yeah, but that could lead to judgment calls (unless we want replay on it), and also leads to runners getting caught in between just giving themselves up, sliding into a blocked plate, etc.
    No more so than there is now really. Hey as a fan I love to see a guy get blown up at home. Hell of an exciting play to be sure but I'd give it up in the name of safety in a heartbeat.

    Sure injuries happen, you can't get rid of all of them, but stupid avoidable injuries like Posey getting run over and losing half a season just seem dumb.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  13. #13
    My History. Your Tradition. JDPNYY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Guam

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    Yes, and the ball is way to hard. And pitcher's should not be allowed to throw that ball so hard. Bats should be plastic. The bases should break away. The fences should be made of pillows. Cleats are an issue. The dugout steps should have handrails and the players should not be allowed to spit slippery sunflower seeds on the floor of said dugout.
    I'm frantic... Jeter Ceremony Date - when will this be announced????


    Thank goodness we now know.

  14. #14
    Bazinga Hitman23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Long Island

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    You can make fun.... but even in a game where hitting is not only allowed, but encouraged and a huge part of the game, in hockey if you take more than three strides before you check someone you get a charging penalty. If he's up against the boards you can't take more than two. A guy hitting a catcher is running full speed for at least 90 feet. This isn't about pussifying the game or a macho thing. It's really dangerous. And I know it's not something that happens all the time but I don't want to wait until it's too late. Take care of this before someone winds up seriously injured.
    Thank you, 2013-2014 New York Rangers for a great season!

    NYYFans Fantasy Baseball:
    CBS: Evil Empire
    Yahoo: Special OPS

  15. #15
    NYYF Legend

    Yankee Tripper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Left coast

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Yes, and the ball is way to hard.
    I think you meant the ball is too hard.

    But otherwise I think you've nailed this one.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  16. #16

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    Put a guy like CC behind the plate and see what happens when someone tries to run through him.
    EvilEmpireDC: Fans bitch about anything lol

  17. #17
    NYYF Legend

    Yankee Tripper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Left coast

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    Put a guy like CC behind the plate and see what happens when someone tries to run through him.
    I'd rather not have our highest paid picther blocking the plate thanks.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  18. #18

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    This rule is enforced in Little League baseball across the country, so I don't see why it would be so hard to implement in MLB. It's really just a matter of debate about what should and shouldn't be allowed.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  19. #19

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    If the runners can lower their shoulder, so should the catcher.
    EvilEmpireDC: Fans bitch about anything lol

  20. #20
    Pinpoint False1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Arizona

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    This rule is enforced in Little League baseball across the country, so I don't see why it would be so hard to implement in MLB. It's really just a matter of debate about what should and shouldn't be allowed.
    Lou, you know I agree with you 99.9% of the time, but let's not use Little League in this discussion. The stakes are totally different in a variety of ways.

    If there is a way to avoid the real risk of serious injury (and not just change the nature of an injury) and do so in a way that protects the integrity of a run-scoring play, I'm all for it. I just don't see it. A player trying to slide into/around a catcher who is blocking the plate presents it's own injury risks. The only real way I see around it is make it illegal for the catcher to block the plate - can't be in the base path at all. That gives an inherent advantage to the runner on a bang/bang play, and relies on the judgment of the umpire, and still doesn't eliminate risk (e.g. catcher lunging into a runner trying to score).

  21. #21
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Too Close to Fenway

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    If the runners can lower their shoulder, so should the catcher.
    The problem is that the catcher is usually trying to catch the ball. It's like a WR being exposed on a football field.
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  22. #22

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Lou, you know I agree with you 99.9% of the time, but let's not use Little League in this discussion. The stakes are totally different in a variety of ways.

    If there is a way to avoid the real risk of serious injury (and not just change the nature of an injury) and do so in a way that protects the integrity of a run-scoring play, I'm all for it. I just don't see it. A player trying to slide into/around a catcher who is blocking the plate presents it's own injury risks. The only real way I see around it is make it illegal for the catcher to block the plate - can't be in the base path at all. That gives an inherent advantage to the runner on a bang/bang play, and relies on the judgment of the umpire, and still doesn't eliminate risk (e.g. catcher lunging into a runner trying to score).
    Hmm. I'm not sure I understand where we'd be disagreeing.

    I'm just saying, to those who feel a rules change would be hard to implement, that a different set of rules has been implemented very successfully in Little League. In fact there are all sorts of variant rules about balks, passed balls, base stealing, you name it. Implementation, adjudication, and enforcement aren't really the issue, to me.

    Of course I'm not claiming any Little League rule variants are necessarily the right thing for MLB. And of course I fully understand that the stakes are much, much higher in MLB.

    You seem to be saying the MLB rule change would have to involve restrictions on the catcher -- e.g., no blocking the plate -- but (at the risk of getting in trouble here) why can't the onus be on the baserunner like it is in Little League? You tell baserunners that they have to slide and they have to try to avoid contact. Or some other less onerous variant that brings the runner's restrictions in line with how they have to behave at the other bases. The key change would be that attempting to forcibly dislodge the ball from the catcher's grasp would be illegal. This would give the edge to the catcher and increase the likelihood of outs at the plate, but it would be the same rules for both teams.

    Funny thing is, I'm not even necessarily voting hard to make this change. I was just opining that it's not that hard to do, if the willingness is there.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  23. #23

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    It would be fairly easy to mandate that the runner must slide feet first into the plate if a play is being made and to enforce the existing rule that the catcher cannot block the baseline in any way without the ball.

    If a runner contacts the catcher in any way other than via a feet first slide, runner out. If the catcher blocks a runner away from the plate without the ball, runner safe. These wouldn't even require much judgement on the part of the umpire and wouldn't dramatically change the game. Most people wouldn't even notice the change.
    I can't complain but sometimes I still do. - Joe Walsh

  24. #24
    Pinpoint False1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Arizona

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    Hmm. I'm not sure I understand where we'd be disagreeing.
    I'm just so used to thinking/typing "this" in reply to your posts that it was unique for me to not agree with one. I read your post as "works in little league, so can work in MLB" and I don't think it's that easy. No biggie.

    You seem to be saying the MLB rule change would have to involve restrictions on the catcher -- e.g., no blocking the plate -- but (at the risk of getting in trouble here) why can't the onus be on the baserunner like it is in Little League? You tell baserunners that they have to slide and they have to try to avoid contact. Or some other less onerous variant that brings the runner's restrictions in line with how they have to behave at the other bases. The key change would be that attempting to forcibly dislodge the ball from the catcher's grasp would be illegal. This would give the edge to the catcher and increase the likelihood of outs at the plate, but it would be the same rules for both teams.
    While that might reduce the risk of concussions, it doesn't eliminate the risk of injury overall. I saw Stephen Drew snap his ankle trying to slide around a catcher blocking the plate in 2011. If catchers knew they weren't going to get plowed over, they'd be even more assertive in blocking the plate and you'll probably see quite a few injured runners. I guess my POV - which is just an initial reaction really at this point - is that if you're just transferring injury risk why do it? If you want to protect both players in that instance, the only way I can see it working is if the catcher is not allowed to park in front of the plate while waiting on the ball to arrive.

    Funny thing is, I'm not even necessarily voting hard to make this change. I was just opining that it's not that hard to do, if the willingness is there.
    I hear you. I'm not thinking it would be hard to do, but depending on implementation could add judgment calls to run scoring opportunities. I can imagine umpires that already struggle to get that call right today also having to interpret the "quality" of the running/defense and getting that wrong frequently.

  25. #25

    Re: Should collisions at home plate be banned?

    I think they should be, yes. I would hope that the specifications of what would be considered a collision would be clear. Obviously, runners aren't going to be safe so long as they're coming in from third but the level of possible contact at the plate should be regulated and enforced. A good example of what should still be allowed is the play at the plate in Game 2 of this year's World Series. In fact, the way Buster Posey handles plays at the plate might be a good illustration in general. There's no doubt that Bruce Bochy's passion toward this subject is as strong as it because he saw what Buster went through (and if you haven't, you should check out the collision that led to his injury, just as an example of how monstrous they can be). It's a physical game and injuries are obviously unavoidable, but the extremity of injury that can come from these plays at the plate are ones that can at least be attempted to be avoided. I'm of the mind that an extra run is not worth leaving a guy with shattered bones, concussions, or worse.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts