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  1. #4476
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Still very aggravated this morning, the Yanks just did not compete.

    Since Soriano trade - remember everyone saying this is a completely different team, look at us going forward?

    We are 28-29 since the "big run" started.

    We have a losing record in September.

    Our run differential on July 13 when Soriano got here was +4, it is now -15.

    Sori has been a bright spot, crazy great pickup, but it is lipstick on a pig.

    I am annoyed that I allowed myself to get sucked in for a couple of weeks, this team is a disaster, and next year - we are just another year older......
    Goin for 2<strike>7</strike>8!

  2. #4477
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bucky View Post
    I am not giving up yet. Boy, am I glad we are not playing BoSox anymore. They (players, management, and the fans) redeem themselves (ARod getting hit) with Mo last night. But both series were painful to watch. I want Brian replaced or moved into another capacity (batboy) until his contract expires, another pitching coach, don't want another ARod contract with Cano. There is talk of 30M for 10 years and that's insane. I looked at Pedroia's contract and I want a similar contract for Cano. I can't help but like this guy, Pedroia and I hate BoSox.
    For whatever reason, Pedroia chose to sign for significantly below his market value. There's no reason to think that Cano would or should do the same. And while Pedroia provides speed and SB that Cano can't, Cano is a significantly better hitter and plays great defense.

    So you can look at Pedroia's contract all you want, but put it out of your mind when considering Cano's free agency. It's not a remotely realistic standard.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
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  3. #4478
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ArodEra View Post
    Root for losses and a complete meltdown.
    I've been a Yankee fan for over a half Century, and I've never done this. I'm sure not going to start now.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  4. #4479
    Movin' on Bub's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Trying to figure the best way to root for other series this week. Normally I'd hope that either Tampa or Texas sweeps, however with Cleveland's easy schedule I think they're in, which means the Yanks have to catch everyone else. So for now we need a sweep in Toronto and the Rays and Rangers to split. If that unlikely scenario plays out we can take it from there on Friday. If not, it's over.
    Let the kids play.

  5. #4480
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    For whatever reason, Pedroia chose to sign for significantly below his market value. There's no reason to think that Cano would or should do the same. And while Pedroia provides speed and SB that Cano can't, Cano is a significantly better hitter and plays great defense.

    So you can look at Pedroia's contract all you want, but put it out of your mind when considering Cano's free agency. It's not a remotely realistic standard.
    Not that it refutes your entire premise but I'm not so sure I would categorize Pedroia's contract as "significantly below his market value". $14M+ over 7 was a very good deal for the Red Sox but he has a career .766 OPS and 108 wRC+ away from the friendly confines of Fenway Park. True, all it takes is one foolish GM to break the bank and shred my theory but I'm not sure how many GM's would have been willing to hand out "stupid money" for that level of production. Cano on the other hand...
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  6. #4481
    Your 2014 NY Yankees JDPNYY's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by yanksftw View Post
    unless cashman is fired and management undergoes some serious soul searching about the identity of this team, the future is bleak. Bleaker than I remember in my 36 years of rooting for this team.
    2013
    - 36
    1977

    Someone seems to have missed the late 80's/early 90's.
    Pardon, for us.

  7. #4482
    #notonemore Big_E's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Unless management repeats the mistakes of a few years ago with A-Rod and CC, we could be in a low-point until 2017.

    Fantasy Baseball: Larrupin' Lou's

  8. #4483
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    2013
    - 36
    1977

    Someone seems to have missed the late 80's/early 90's.
    Maybe he was drunk in college back then and missed those years?

    Yes the early 90s were bleak indeed.

    I'm rooting for the Yanks to get hot starting tomorrow and for one of Tampa/Texas to sweep that series.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  9. #4484
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ArodEra View Post
    Or, hopefully, ownership will stop being duped by management into thinking that we are only one or two players away. Or, that the new class of "studs" in the lower minors are only a couple... or six years away. Where are these revolving "studs" or major league-quality players (other than being traded away) from a few years ago?

    Root for losses and a complete meltdown. The Yanks are going nowhere and an embarrassing ending, including getting beat up by the media, might be the only way this team considers a complete overhaul.
    Why are you so convinced that ownership is being duped by management? Seems to me that ownership stands a lot more to gain than management from the current posturing around roster construction.

    I understand what you're saying on "sending a message" to ownership, but I can't root for losses - just not in my fan DNA. Also, I don't think it changes anything if they miss the playoffs. The insane number of injuries and the fact that they were able to stay competitive in spite of them will be the counter to that - justified or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by bomber999 View Post
    The front office overruled Cashman on the acquisitions of both Sorianos these past two years, and both were vital contributors. This, plus the failure of Joba and Hughes, and the paucity of any discernible productivity from the farm (despite Cashman having control for 8 years), not to mention Cashman's embarassing and unprofessional behavior this year, might finally be enough for them to move on. Now, ownership is no prize either, and they are the ones responsible for ARod's atrocious contract. I only hope that they don't get full of themselves, and actually hire a GM with a track record of player development and team building, and give this GM autonomy.
    Rafael Soriano got $22.5MM for ~100 IP. He was abysmal in 2011. It was great to have him as an insurance policy, and it paid of in 2012 given Rivera's freak injury. But all in all, I'd be curious if they could have done more with that money if it was known to be available for what appeared to be fringe upgrades that would cost a draft pick to acquire. Or, perhaps they avoid the expensive/ugly '11 contribution from Soriano and are in play for Nathan in '12, who signed a 2/$14.75MM deal with Texas.

    I think the sound-byte about being overruled on Alfonso Soriano is a bit overblown. First, Cashman was quoted saying before the deal finalized that Soriano was the best bat available on the market. Second, no one could have foreseen the impact he has had or that he would nearly single-handedly keep the Yankees in the hunt. Third, given the state of the team at the time of the deal and in spite of his mashing, it's probable at this point that all he did was give us a temporary burst of excitement and another aging OF for next year's roster. My interpretation was that Cashman wasn't anti-Alfonso, but he was hesitant to give up a young arm that has been clocked at 100 MPH for a guy that wasn't likely to be a difference maker. Ultimately, he might be right.

  10. #4485

    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Why are you so convinced that ownership is being duped by management? Seems to me that ownership stands a lot more to gain than management from the current posturing around roster construction.

    I understand what you're saying on "sending a message" to ownership, but I can't root for losses - just not in my fan DNA. Also, I don't think it changes anything if they miss the playoffs. The insane number of injuries and the fact that they were able to stay competitive in spite of them will be the counter to that - justified or not.

    Rafael Soriano got $22.5MM for ~100 IP. He was abysmal in 2011. It was great to have him as an insurance policy, and it paid of in 2012 given Rivera's freak injury. But all in all, I'd be curious if they could have done more with that money if it was known to be available for what appeared to be fringe upgrades that would cost a draft pick to acquire. Or, perhaps they avoid the expensive/ugly '11 contribution from Soriano and are in play for Nathan in '12, who signed a 2/$14.75MM deal with Texas.

    I think the sound-byte about being overruled on Alfonso Soriano is a bit overblown. First, Cashman was quoted saying before the deal finalized that Soriano was the best bat available on the market. Second, no one could have foreseen the impact he has had or that he would nearly single-handedly keep the Yankees in the hunt. Third, given the state of the team at the time of the deal and in spite of his mashing, it's probable at this point that all he did was give us a temporary burst of excitement and another aging OF for next year's roster. My interpretation was that Cashman wasn't anti-Alfonso, but he was hesitant to give up a young arm that has been clocked at 100 MPH for a guy that wasn't likely to be a difference maker. Ultimately, he might be right.
    Amen to all of this. Couldn't have said it better myself.

    We've been playing basically .500 baseball all season, in terms of expected record. Other teams have faltered and we had a bit of a hot streak, which put us in the race. We're still in the race, frankly, if we can beat up on teams not named Boston like we have been.

    But to blame this particular team on Cashman duping management is just silly. We've built the last decade, basically, on the back of huge contracts for guys about 30. We knew these days were coming. Some of our players (Mo, Jeter, Andy) have been really good for way longer than we could have ever expected. These injuries and ineffectiveness to guys like Jeter, ARod, Tex, Youk, etc., it should have been expected ... just not in the amount that happened.

    Here's to a good and exciting end of the season and more luck and quality signings heading into next. Look, the way this team has performed all season gives us no right to expect playoffs, yet we're going to have a possibly exciting couple weeks. What more could we ask for?

  11. #4486
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Yanks eliminated from AL East crown last night. September 15th is the earliest date that the Bombers have been eliminated since 1992.

    Also, 13 losses to the Sox this year, the most losses to them in a season since 1973.

    The second Wild Card is a few sub par teams, and we can't even compete for that.

    UGLY........
    Goin for 2<strike>7</strike>8!

  12. #4487
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by goin for 27 View Post
    The second Wild Card is a few sub par teams, and we can't even compete for that.

    UGLY........
    Our starting Left Fielder has played in 49 games out of 150.
    Our starting First Baseman has played 15 games, and his backup has played in just 28.
    Our starting Shortstop has played 17 games, and his backup only 80.
    Our starting Third baseman has played 36 games, and his backup only 28.
    Our primary catcher has played just 17 games.

    When you're routinely playing your third string players, when Zoilo Almonte has more plate appearances than Derek Jeter, when Travis Hafner has more plate appearances than Curtis Granderson, when David Adams has more plate appearances than Alex Rodriguez, what, exactly, are you expecting?

    The fact that we're even discussing post-season play with the roster the Yankees have trotted out, week after week, is remarkable. For most of the year, it's been Robinson Cano, Brett Gardner, Ichiro, and duct tape. To be honest, any teams behind the Yankees, or only competitive with them for a Wild Card slot, ought to be embarrassed. I'm ecstatic that this miserable season doesn't have much uglier results than it currently has.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  13. #4488
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Deciding to become frugal with a farm system devoid of any talent at the upper levels and an aging core wasn't the best of ideas.

  14. #4489
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Our starting Left Fielder has played in 49 games out of 150.
    Our starting First Baseman has played 15 games, and his backup has played in just 28.
    Our starting Shortstop has played 17 games, and his backup only 80.
    Our starting Third baseman has played 36 games, and his backup only 28.
    Our primary catcher has played just 17 games.

    When you're routinely playing your third string players, when Zoilo Almonte has more plate appearances than Derek Jeter, when Travis Hafner has more plate appearances than Curtis Granderson, when David Adams has more plate appearances than Alex Rodriguez, what, exactly, are you expecting?

    The fact that we're even discussing post-season play with the roster the Yankees have trotted out, week after week, is remarkable. For most of the year, it's been Robinson Cano, Brett Gardner, Ichiro, and duct tape. To be honest, any teams behind the Yankees, or only competitive with them for a Wild Card slot, ought to be embarrassed. I'm ecstatic that this miserable season doesn't have much uglier results than it currently has.
    I guess what disappoints me most is the lack of young talent. Many teams have injuries (not this many, I grant you) and have backfill.

    Sox have Boegarts as IF backfill and Bradley JR as OF backfill. (never mind young contributors every day)

    The Yankee system is barren, and next year.....just another year older, minus some key pieces that will be leaving.

    We are going to continue to have injury plagued seasons when you run out near or over 40 year olds.....there is no way around it.
    Goin for 2<strike>7</strike>8!

  15. #4490
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Our starting Left Fielder has played in 49 games out of 150.
    Our starting First Baseman has played 15 games, and his backup has played in just 28.
    Our starting Shortstop has played 17 games, and his backup only 80.
    Our starting Third baseman has played 36 games, and his backup only 28.
    Our primary catcher has played just 17 games.

    When you're routinely playing your third string players, when Zoilo Almonte has more plate appearances than Derek Jeter, when Travis Hafner has more plate appearances than Curtis Granderson, when David Adams has more plate appearances than Alex Rodriguez, what, exactly, are you expecting?

    The fact that we're even discussing post-season play with the roster the Yankees have trotted out, week after week, is remarkable. For most of the year, it's been Robinson Cano, Brett Gardner, Ichiro, and duct tape. To be honest, any teams behind the Yankees, or only competitive with them for a Wild Card slot, ought to be embarrassed. I'm ecstatic that this miserable season doesn't have much uglier results than it currently has.
    I'm not disappointed in the results of the season so much as apprehensive about next season and beyond.

    The starting LF you're referring to will most likely be gone.
    The starting 1B, judging from the last couple of years, probably won't ever be a star again(which is not the worst thing in the world).
    The starting shortstop may not be a starting shortstop anymore.
    The starting 3B...who knows?
    The starting catcher was probably not going to keep up that hitting pace, and he's not a good defensive catcher, and he'll be going without PEDs next year. If he's still the starting catcher, I'll be disappointed.
    The starting 2B...who knows?
    The starting rotation, as of now, consists of Sabathia and Nova.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  16. #4491
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by goin for 27 View Post
    I guess what disappoints me most is the lack of young talent. Many teams have injuries (not this many, I grant you) and have backfill.

    Sox have Boegarts as IF backfill and Bradley JR as OF backfill. (never mind young contributors every day)

    The Yankee system is barren, and next year.....just another year older, minus some key pieces that will be leaving.

    We are going to continue to have injury plagued seasons when you run out near or over 40 year olds.....there is no way around it.
    Kinda crazy how Sanchez won't be MLB ready until mid-2015.

  17. #4492
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I'm not disappointed in the results of the season so much as apprehensive about next season and beyond.
    That's pretty much where I'm at. The team needs an overhaul - and between budget and farm system concerns, I'm not seeing too much hope. And I'm usually pretty optimistic.
    If they ask who was our star, give them 25 names, and if you forget our names, just tell them we were Yankees.

  18. #4493
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I'm not disappointed in the results of the season so much as apprehensive about next season and beyond.
    Oh, I agree. I'm very much concerned with next year, and possibly a few years to follow. But, given the injury situation in 2013, I'm actually very much impressed with the showing of misfits and cast-offs wearing Yankee uniforms.

    Next year is going to be another story. I don't think we have a clue right now what the Opening Day roster will look like next year. Face it, at the beginning of Spring Training this year, who would have predicted we'd regularly be playing Hafner and Wells and Overbay? None of those guys were even in camp.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
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  19. #4494
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    To me, looking forward into next year, I simply do not see how the Yankees can afford to let Cano walk. As much as I hate the thought of a 10 year mega-deal, losing Cano and his skills would be devastating to an already aging, beleaguered team.

  20. #4495

    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 2JAY View Post
    As much as I hate the thought of a 10 year mega-deal, losing Cano and his skills would be devastating to an already aging, beleaguered team.
    It is going to be a beleaguered team with or without Cano. If he won't sign a "reasonable" (meaning nothing like A-Rod's) contract, then let the Dodgers or Angels have him.
    I can't complain but sometimes I still do. - Joe Walsh

  21. #4496
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 2JAY View Post
    To me, looking forward into next year, I simply do not see how the Yankees can afford to let Cano walk. As much as I hate the thought of a 10 year mega-deal, losing Cano and his skills would be devastating to an already aging, beleaguered team.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Man View Post
    It is going to be a beleaguered team with or without Cano. If he won't sign a "reasonable" (meaning nothing like A-Rod's) contract, then let the Dodgers or Angels have him.
    Agreed. If you want to escape this cycle of players who have past their peak collecting the lion's share of the payroll, you have to cut the cord at some point and have a couple bad seasons. The Yankees have had an incredible run over nearly 20 years, but it feels like it's time to accept a rebuilding phase. With this team's resources, it wouldn't have to be terribly long, but it would accelerate the process to not get tied into another long term deal.
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  22. #4497
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Fan in Boston View Post
    Agreed. If you want to escape this cycle of players who have past their peak collecting the lion's share of the payroll, you have to cut the cord at some point and have a couple bad seasons. The Yankees have had an incredible run over nearly 20 years, but it feels like it's time to accept a rebuilding phase. With this team's resources, it wouldn't have to be terribly long, but it would accelerate the process to not get tied into another long term deal.
    I would have no problem accepting a few bad seasons if it meant turning this team in the right direction. But if you still have the same guys running the player development departments will anything really change?

  23. #4498
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Fan in Boston View Post
    Agreed. If you want to escape this cycle of players who have past their peak collecting the lion's share of the payroll, you have to cut the cord at some point and have a couple bad seasons. The Yankees have had an incredible run over nearly 20 years, but it feels like it's time to accept a rebuilding phase. With this team's resources, it wouldn't have to be terribly long, but it would accelerate the process to not get tied into another long term deal.
    I don't see how signing Cano hampers their ability to rebuild.
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  24. #4499
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I don't see how signing Cano hampers their ability to rebuild.
    If they spend a gazillion dollars to lock him up for the next 10 years (or whatever huge mega contract it would take), two things will happen. One, they will trumpet this as a sign that they are committed to settling for nothing less than a championship caliber team, like they did this year, even though there's really nothing else in the pipeline that offers such hope. Two, it will be a huge weight on an already shrinking payroll, leaving them little or no flexibility to make other necessary moves.

    I like Cano as much as anyone else, but as long as money is an issue, which ownership has made abundantly clear, signing him could indeed have an impact on their ability to rebuild.
    Yankee fan living in Maine.

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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    For whatever reason, Pedroia chose to sign for significantly below his market value. There's no reason to think that Cano would or should do the same. And while Pedroia provides speed and SB that Cano can't, Cano is a significantly better hitter and plays great defense.

    So you can look at Pedroia's contract all you want, but put it out of your mind when considering Cano's free agency. It's not a remotely realistic standard.
    I feel the market value is set when a player signs and feel Pedroia got a good salary. That is the standard. Yes, I thought it was low but not by that much (1-2M and 8 years is very nice). I do like Cano and agree he is a much better batter (I think they both have a good glove). I don't want to break the bank with Cano with another ARod contract where we are paying one player 25-30M (was mentioned) and the another 1M. I would rather have 3 good players at 10M than one at 30M. I don't see how we can't have TWO (3 if you count CC) killer contracts and try to get under the luxury tax.

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