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  1. #676
    Don't call it a comeback False1's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    DFA'ing him after two months and eating all that money would be dumber than the trade itself. At this point, it's most definitely a possibility.
    Again I'd encourage everyone to wait and see the lux tax implications. I'm skeptical, but it has been rumored this could creat a lux tax credit for '14. If so, I have no issue with it at all. If it is a $6.5MM hit to '14 then it is indeed asinine.

    Either way though, it is surprising they had to take on $13MM of that deal.

  2. #677
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    The view from SoCal

    Why bring up Teixeira into the Vernon Wells saga? Well it seems that because Mark got injured in the World Baseball Classic, the WBC insurance is paying at least $7 Million of his salary. This windfall will help offset the Yankees taking on salary to find a bat to replace Teixeira. Now of course, nobody in their right mind would think that Vernon Wells a deflated righty outfield offensive liability, could take the place of Mark Teixeira, a still scary lefty 1B offensive weapon.

    But somebody did. Somebody knew some creative accounting. The Yankees want to get under the luxury tax threshold for next season in order to not pay the luxury tax, but additionally, to have that tax shrink when they avoid paying it two season in a row. They are alrady stuck paying it this year so the creative accounting goes like this:

    The Yankees trade a yet-to-be-named prospect for Vernon Wells and $29 Million of his salary. But wait, Arte, do us a favor, put 21 that $29 million in some investment, or a bank on the Island of Cyprus, but hold onto it. for a year. We'll pay Vernon his $13 Million and you pay just $7 million this year. Next year, though, you pay the whole $21 million. Cool? Cool. The insurance for Teix gives the Yankees over half of Vernon's contract and next year they have a veteran outfielder without being a cent closer to the luxury tax threshold.
    http://www.halosheaven.com/2013/3/24...non-wells-saga

  3. #678

    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Again I'd encourage everyone to wait and see the lux tax implications. I'm skeptical, but it has been rumored this could creat a lux tax credit for '14. If so, I have no issue with it at all. If it is a $6.5MM hit to '14 then it is indeed asinine.

    Either way though, it is surprising they had to take on $13MM of that deal.
    I'm taking the fact that they took on $13mm as actually a hopeful sign...ironically enough. Tells me that it's more likely that they can front load it...otherwise I don't see how or why they would do that.

  4. #679
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Bryan Hoch ‏@BryanHoch 1h 1B Lyle Overbay has an opt-out clause in his Red Sox contract tomorrow. Hmm. #yankees
    Would fit the recent trend of acquiring players who haven't been productive since 2010.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  5. #680
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    But they could not sign Martin!

  6. #681
    Don't call it a comeback False1's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    But they could not sign Martin!
    Why do you and others keep ignoring the context? Martin is a preferable asset. Swisher is a preferable asset. Reportedly, Wells will cost NEGATIVE $2MM in '14. Martin would have cost ~$7MM ($9MM variance) and Swisher $14MM ($16MM variance, and liabilities beyond '14). That's the difference.

    You're analyzing this without context. Trust me, I'm not big on Wells' acquisition, I think they let the Angels off easy taking on $13MM... but if the $189MM is the target for '14 - like it or not - this move makes sense.

  7. #682

    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Why do you and others keep ignoring the context? Martin is a preferable asset. Swisher is a preferable asset. Reportedly, Wells will cost NEGATIVE $2MM in '14. Martin would have cost ~$7MM ($9MM variance) and Swisher $14MM ($16MM variance, and liabilities beyond '14). That's the difference.

    You're analyzing this without context. Trust me, I'm not big on Wells' acquisition, I think they let the Angels off easy taking on $13MM... but if the $189MM is the target for '14 - like it or not - this move makes sense.

    The problem is that at $13MM, he still has to play and the fans have to be subjected to his sh!t play. This is money that could have been spent (or, better, unspent) more wisely. If this team is about trading for a crap player to have an extra measly $2MM in AAV, then the future is bleaker than I thought, and that's pretty bleak.


  8. #683
    Hello dum-dum... effdamets's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    I think the team made this trade because they had to.
    If Tex and Granderson don't come up hurt, I don't think they make the trade.
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

  9. #684
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ArodEra View Post
    The problem is that at $13MM, he still has to play and the fans have to be subjected to his sh!t play. This is money that could have been spent (or, better, unspent) more wisely. If this team is about trading for a crap player to have an extra measly $2MM in AAV, then the future is bleaker than I thought, and that's pretty bleak.
    Just curious, how many times have you actually seen Wells play?
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  10. #685
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    For everyone complaining that we didn't resign Martin, we just replaced it bat...

    Wells .230 .279 .403 .682
    Martin .211 .311 .403 .713
    [SIZE=3]"Scooter - RIP and thank you for being part of my childhood"[/SIZE]

  11. #686

    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BeantownYankee View Post
    For everyone complaining that we didn't resign Martin, we just replaced it bat...

    Wells .230 .279 .403 .682
    Martin .211 .311 .403 .713
    Wells is not Martin's replacement.
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  12. #687

    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BeantownYankee View Post
    Just curious, how many times have you actually seen Wells play?
    Probably as much as your average Yankees fan. Mostly when he played against the Yanks (many times live), but caught him playing against other teams as well. But, I've taken a good look at his stats and that paints a good picture. He's been pure crap the past 2 seasons and 4 of the last 6. He also carries one of the worst contracts in baseball.

    Is there something that will change my mind if I saw him play more often?


  13. #688

    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Interesting that Cot's has Wells listed as a Yankee. Has the trade been made official?


  14. #689
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Why do you and others keep ignoring the context? Martin is a preferable asset. Swisher is a preferable asset. Reportedly, Wells will cost NEGATIVE $2MM in '14. Martin would have cost ~$7MM ($9MM variance) and Swisher $14MM ($16MM variance, and liabilities beyond '14). That's the difference.

    You're analyzing this without context. Trust me, I'm not big on Wells' acquisition, I think they let the Angels off easy taking on $13MM... but if the $189MM is the target for '14 - like it or not - this move makes sense.
    I'll say again: not signing Martin was fine. Not having a plan B was a problem.

    Swisher makes my point more appropriately. Swisher's contract is something of an overpay, but not a terrible one. Re-signing him would have been a good thing in every way other than the 2014 payroll imperative. They are significantly worse now by not having him.

    That 2014 payroll imperative is good for the Steinbrenners' bank accounts, but it interests me not in the slightest.
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  15. #690
    Bazinga Hitman23's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I'll say again: not signing Martin was fine. Not having a plan B was a problem.
    I actually agree with this if it's true. Like I said earlier I am hoping (besides the obvious payroll minding) that there is a bigger plan that is not public. I am giving those in charge the benefit of the doubt.
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  16. #691

    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    still gonna say this but the most reasonable next move would be to sell the team after 2014 or so
    always reasonable

  17. #692
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    I think the team made this trade because they had to.
    If Tex and Granderson don't come up hurt, I don't think they make the trade.
    I kind of agree. I think you are correct for sure - Granderson/Tex not injured, no way they make this trade.

    Where I quibble is the money. I know Wells is tearing up the spring, but he has been awful for a couple of years. If he lights it up, I will be as thrilled as anyone. That said, if he remains true to form, Yanks could have played Francisco, Mesa, Boesch, etc....for similar production. Wells is like Andruw Jones for much bigger money.

    I understand that the bulk of money is for this year, but it just seems to me that it could have been better spent elsewhere.
    Goin for 2<strike>7</strike>8!

  18. #693
    Don't call it a comeback False1's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I'll say again: not signing Martin was fine. Not having a plan B was a problem.
    They had a plan B. It's going to live out in front of our eyes, for better or worse.

    Swisher makes my point more appropriately. Swisher's contract is something of an overpay, but not a terrible one. Re-signing him would have been a good thing in every way other than the 2014 payroll imperative. They are significantly worse now by not having him.
    Agreed on all counts.

    That 2014 payroll imperative is good for the Steinbrenners' bank accounts, but it interests me not in the slightest.
    But it matters to the team's owners, and to every team's owners. The Yankees had reached a point (as will the Dodgers, and Angels) where investing an ever-growing amount of payroll reached diminishing returns especially in light of the growing penalties/costs for doing so. I may not be looking forward to it, but after the run they've had and the albatross contracts that are byproducts of it, managing down the payroll temporarily doesn't strike me as unreasonable.

  19. #694
    Don't call it a comeback False1's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by goin for 27 View Post
    I kind of agree. I think you are correct for sure - Granderson/Tex not injured, no way they make this trade.

    Where I quibble is the money. I know Wells is tearing up the spring, but he has been awful for a couple of years. If he lights it up, I will be as thrilled as anyone. That said, if he remains true to form, Yanks could have played Francisco, Mesa, Boesch, etc....for similar production. Wells is like Andruw Jones for much bigger money.

    I understand that the bulk of money is for this year, but it just seems to me that it could have been better spent elsewhere.
    I absolutely disagree, and the fact that they explored this prior to the Winter Meetings is supporting evidence. Whether it works or not remains to be seen, but I think it's pretty clear this is all about having the 4OF spot hopefully invested in '14 in a guy that actually reduces their payroll by about $2MM, or if he sucks finding a league-mimimum-ish replacement and still saving $1.5MM or so. In all likelihood the Tex injury just made this more palpable by offsetting some of the costs due to his injury compensation from the WBC.

  20. #695

    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    wells is a pure pull hitter to left field. given his injury history it's not unreasonable to expect injury to drag down his performance yet again.

    so yea, hope his roids are good
    always reasonable

  21. #696
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    They had a plan B. It's going to live out in front of our eyes, for better or worse.
    That's not a plan B. It's a non-plan. It's "Bubba Crosby is our center fielder," except they mean it.

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    But it matters to the team's owners, and to every team's owners. The Yankees had reached a point (as will the Dodgers, and Angels) where investing an ever-growing amount of payroll reached diminishing returns especially in light of the growing penalties/costs for doing so. I may not be looking forward to it, but after the run they've had and the albatross contracts that are byproducts of it, managing down the payroll temporarily doesn't strike me as unreasonable.
    In principle, it's not unreasonable. But not signing big free-agent contracts is not itself a strategy for building a team. Cutting payroll is not a baseball strategy, either.

    I am a Yankee fan and a baseball fan, not a Steinbrenner bank-account fan. Hank and Hal, understandably, might feel differently. That doesn't make it my priority, nor do I feel any need to defend it as a plan.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
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  22. #697

    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    The only good news about this trade is that it got this place rocking again....at least temporarily.


  23. #698

    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ArodEra View Post
    The only good news about this trade is that it got this place rocking again....at least temporarily.
    It can be fun arguing with your goons, so I will say yes, I agree with you here.
    EvilEmpireDC: Fans bitch about anything lol

  24. #699

    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    For those who don't see why the Yankees would do this in order to get a $2mm credit next year on a player that has a chance to be serviceable, would it make any difference if that $2mm enables them to squeak by under the threshold and re-sign Cano?

  25. #700

    Re: 2013 New York Yankees Season Long Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFan1421 View Post
    For those who don't see why the Yankees would do this in order to get a $2mm credit next year on a player that has a chance to be serviceable, would it make any difference if that $2mm enables them to squeak by under the threshold and re-sign Cano?
    2m is a lot of money...it could even it open it up just enough to retain Hughes.
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