Are the Yankees planning to operate like a small market team?

[d32123]

Interesting how Cano's post season failures (.222 BA) are rarely mentioned yet Swisher was repeatedly crucified for his

Interesting in what way?

[Nome]

This thread started on the wrong premisa IMHO. The Yankees understandably want to get under the cap for 2014. They will never, never operate as a small market team. Nuff said

Andy

[effdamets]

This thread started on the wrong premisa IMHO. The Yankees understandably want to get under the cap for 2014. They will never, never operate as a small market team. Nuff said

Andy

And if they decided that they want to operate like a small market team, they should brace themselves to get ready for small market profits(losses) too.

[False1]

Interesting how Cano's post season failures (.222 BA) are rarely mentioned yet Swisher was repeatedly crucified for his

Not really. Cano took plenty of heat for what was an historically bad '12 postseason. But he also has had several series where he absolutely went off, including all of '10 and '11. Did you miss the 21 total bases in 23 AB against Texas in '11? Swisher has been pretty dang consistently miserable in the post-season.

[apalradio]

Not really. Cano took plenty of heat for what was an historically bad '12 postseason. But he also has had several series where he absolutely went off, including all of '10 and '11. Did you miss the 21 total bases in 23 AB against Texas in '11? Swisher has been pretty dang consistently miserable in the post-season.

Correct. Thank you.

[snapple]

Not really. Cano took plenty of heat for what was an historically bad '12 postseason. But he also has had several series where he absolutely went off, including all of '10 and '11. Did you miss the 21 total bases in 23 AB against Texas in '11? Swisher has been pretty dang consistently miserable in the post-season.

Do you mean Detroit or '10?

[pacersyankees]

Not really. Cano took plenty of heat for what was an historically bad '12 postseason. But he also has had several series where he absolutely went off, including all of '10 and '11. Did you miss the 21 total bases in 23 AB against Texas in '11? Swisher has been pretty dang consistently miserable in the post-season.

So you give a guy who has hit .222 in over 200 plate appearances in the post season a $25 million per year contract? What makes you think Cano does not continue to struggle in the playoffs? I'm not saying hes not a very good player, just that $25 mil (and more) per year deals should be given to guys that get it done when it counts.

In 11 post season series, Cano has hit over .300 4 times, under .200 5 times, including below .100 twice. That is not a guy that deserves to be paid $25 million per year.

Look at Jeters post season numbers and compare them to Cano- its a laughable comparison at best

[Gusto]

So you give a guy who has hit .222 in over 200 plate appearances in the post season a $25 million per year contract? What makes you think Cano does not continue to struggle in the playoffs? I'm not saying hes not a very good player, just that $25 mil (and more) per year deals should be given to guys that get it done when it counts.

In 11 post season series, Cano has hit over .300 4 times, under .200 5 times, including below .100 twice. That is not a guy that deserves to be paid $25 million per year.

Look at Jeters post season numbers and compare them to Cano- its a laughable comparison at best

You gotta get to the playoffs to perform in them. The Yankees were within a couple games of not making the playoffs this year. Do they get there without Cano's regular season production? His 8.2 WAR says no.

[Mr. Mxylsplk]

Look at Jeters post season numbers and compare them to Cano- its a laughable comparison at best

It certainly is laughable to make a comparison based on 200 plate appearances spread across an 8 year career.

[YankeePride1967]

Only in New York is $189 million called "small market".

[Hitman23]

So you give a guy who has hit .222 in over 200 plate appearances in the post season a $25 million per year contract? What makes you think Cano does not continue to struggle in the playoffs? I'm not saying hes not a very good player, just that $25 mil (and more) per year deals should be given to guys that get it done when it counts.

In 11 post season series, Cano has hit over .300 4 times, under .200 5 times, including below .100 twice. That is not a guy that deserves to be paid $25 million per year.

Look at Jeters post season numbers and compare them to Cano- its a laughable comparison at best

I can't believe some of these comments. You are severely underestimating Cano as a player. He is one of the best hitters in all of baseball that plays a premium position at a high level. You can cite some problems in some post season series but overall he is one of the more valuable commodities in the game. If the market dictates that a middle of the order second baseman deserves 25 million then that's what he should get. Not sure how anyone familiar with baseball, especially a Yankees fan, could think otherwise.

[teknetic]

So you give a guy who has hit .222 in over 200 plate appearances in the post season a $25 million per year contract? What makes you think Cano does not continue to struggle in the playoffs? I'm not saying hes not a very good player, just that $25 mil (and more) per year deals should be given to guys that get it done when it counts.

In 11 post season series, Cano has hit over .300 4 times, under .200 5 times, including below .100 twice. That is not a guy that deserves to be paid $25 million per year.

Look at Jeters post season numbers and compare them to Cano- its a laughable comparison at best

Goddamn, it's 2013 and this sort of thinking still exists. How is that even possible?

[JL25and3]

Only in New York is $189 million called "small market".

Once again, that's really not the point.

[YankeePride1967]

Once again, that's really not the point.

First i didn't read the entire thread, just firsf post and in any context small market and the Yankees in the same sentence makes no sense. And it very well is the point. So you agree a comparison of the Yankees and the Oakland A's is valid? Sorry that is the point of the OP and it is ludicrous.

[hardrain]

Once again, that's really not the point.

Yes. this poster is exactly right. Right now they BELIEVE that they have to make decisions LIKE a small market team - the simile becomes the reality.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

Yes. this poster is exactly right. Right now they BELIEVE that they have to make decisions LIKE a small market team - the simile becomes the reality.

I think there's a difference between trying to stay within a budget and operating like a small market team. They went out and plunked $12 million down on Youkilis, and resigned Kuroda for $15 million. Those two signings approach one-third of the payroll for nearly half the teams in MLB. Some Yankee fans live in a very different reality if they think this is how a small market team operates

[YankeePride1967]

I think there's a difference between trying to stay within a budget and operating like a small market team. They went out and plunked $12 million down on Youkilis, and resigned Kuroda for $15 million. Those two signings approach one-third of the payroll for nearly half the teams in MLB. Some Yankee fans live in a very different reality if they think this is how a small market team operates

This. Yes the days of an unlimited budget are gone and to get for $ 200 plus million to $189 million requires choices they didn't have to make in the past. But until they have a $40 million team payroll, they are not the Oakland A's as the thread starter says.

[JL25and3]

I think there's a difference between trying to stay within a budget and operating like a small market team. They went out and plunked $12 million down on Youkilis, and resigned Kuroda for $15 million. Those two signings approach one-third of the payroll for nearly half the teams in MLB. Some Yankee fans live in a very different reality if they think this is how a small market team operates

Then the answer to the question might be "no," but it's still not answered by, "But $189 million!"

Those contracts show that they are still willing to sign reasonably big contracts - even to overpay badly, in the case of Youkilis - as long as it's only for one year. But the budget they're working towards isn't next year, it's the following two years. And while I do expect them to re-sign Cano, I don't know if they're going to be willing to address other weaknesses - which will be building up over the next couple of years - because they won't spend money to do it. That, to me, is small-market thinking.

Some of the optimistic comments from posters here - the feeling that Romine/Cervelli/Stewart constitute a major-league catcher this year, or that Russ what's-his-name might be the RH bat we're looking for - remind me of things I used to say in 1967-8 or so. Maybe Tom Tresh can be a major-league shortstop, maybe this Steve Whitaker kid is the real thing! So maybe whether they're operating like a small market team isn't really the issue, just whether they're acting like an organization building a good team. I hope their minor-leaguers prove me wrong.

[hardrain]

I think there's a difference between trying to stay within a budget and operating like a small market team. They went out and plunked $12 million down on Youkilis, and resigned Kuroda for $15 million. Those two signings approach one-third of the payroll for nearly half the teams in MLB. Some Yankee fans live in a very different reality if they think this is how a small market team operates

Just askin' .. do yo think that this more cautious approach will make them a better team. I think it will; at least I hope so. For example, Canzler was potential.

[apalradio]

This. Yes the days of an unlimited budget are gone and to get for $ 200 plus million to $189 million requires choices they didn't have to make in the past. But until they have a $40 million team payroll, they are not the Oakland A's as the thread starter says.

You keep bringing up the $189 million as the reason they couldn't possibly be compared with a small market team. The irony is that the $189 million is exactly what's moving them toward operating that way. If we start this conversation with the idea that all teams begin all over again at zero and can work their way up from there, then you would have a point.

The problem with the Yankees is that they're already committed to a large number of previously negotiated contracts with brand new, lower budget fiscal goals that force them to operate much differently than they have in the past. If they were to now cut future spending dramatically, hold back on any more big money long term contracts, and only dabble in lower tier low cost players as their new modus operandi, than they're operating like a small market team, regardless of the $189 million.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

Then the answer to the question might be "no," but it's still not answered by, "But $189 million!"

Those contracts show that they are still willing to sign reasonably big contracts - even to overpay badly, in the case of Youkilis - as long as it's only for one year. But the budget they're working towards isn't next year, it's the following two years. And while I do expect them to re-sign Cano, I don't know if they're going to be willing to address other weaknesses - which will be building up over the next couple of years - because they won't spend money to do it. That, to me, is small-market thinking.

Some of the optimistic comments from posters here - the feeling that Romine/Cervelli/Stewart constitute a major-league catcher this year, or that Russ what's-his-name might be the RH bat we're looking for - remind me of things I used to say in 1967-8 or so. Maybe Tom Tresh can be a major-league shortstop, maybe this Steve Whitaker kid is the real thing! So maybe whether they're operating like a small market team isn't really the issue, just whether they're acting like an organization building a good team. I hope their minor-leaguers prove me wrong.

"$189 million!" is probably an appropriate response to the question in the thread title, because neither really captures the reality of their situation.

What you're calling "small-market" thinking to me is really a question of whether they are being smart -- even a small market team can look ahead and try to plan its future. If they were another franchise, for instance, they would have traded Granderson for the best offer and tried to address some of the needs you reference. And I agree on the catcher situation -- Russell Martin was the only non-signing that bothered me this offseason.

They're clearly going through a transition, and it's likely to be bumpy. On the positive side, they've got a few blue chip OF prospects, and while they all won't all work out, I'd guess they're counting on one or two of them making the team in a couple years. They've been pretty good at developing relievers, and have some quality prospects there as well. Gary Sanchez is obviously promising. But the rotation, and the left side of the infield, are significant question marks, and they've got around $50 million/year for the foreseeable future committed to two guys who should be anchoring their lineup but don't seem capable.

It will be interesting to see if the current management is capable of successfully navigating this.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

Just askin' .. do yo think that this more cautious approach will make them a better team. I think it will; at least I hope so. For example, Canzler was potential.

Hopefully. "Growing your own" is really the only way to get in-prime stars these days, regardless of whether you spend in FA. But they've got to prove they can do it.

[YankeePride1967]

They are not operating like a small market team

[apalradio]

Then the answer to the question might be "no," but it's still not answered by, "But $189 million!"

Those contracts show that they are still willing to sign reasonably big contracts - even to overpay badly, in the case of Youkilis - as long as it's only for one year. But the budget they're working towards isn't next year, it's the following two years. And while I do expect them to re-sign Cano, I don't know if they're going to be willing to address other weaknesses - which will be building up over the next couple of years - because they won't spend money to do it. That, to me, is small-market thinking.

Some of the optimistic comments from posters here - the feeling that Romine/Cervelli/Stewart constitute a major-league catcher this year, or that Russ what's-his-name might be the RH bat we're looking for - remind me of things I used to say in 1967-8 or so. Maybe Tom Tresh can be a major-league shortstop, maybe this Steve Whitaker kid is the real thing! So maybe whether they're operating like a small market team isn't really the issue, just whether they're acting like an organization building a good team. I hope their minor-leaguers prove me wrong.

I remember all this as well. I remember hoping that Roger Repoz would be the next Roger Maris. And that Johnny Ellis would carry this team back to greatness. Our big trades were for washed up veterans that hopefully still had some gas in the tank, like Steve Barber, Sam McDowell, and Rocky Colavito. The similarities certainly concern me.

[Nome]

I think there's a difference between trying to stay within a budget and operating like a small market team. They went out and plunked $12 million down on Youkilis, and resigned Kuroda for $15 million. Those two signings approach one-third of the payroll for nearly half the teams in MLB. Some Yankee fans live in a very different reality if they think this is how a small market team operates

Absolutely right on. Anyone who thinks that the Yankees ever have or ever will operate as a small market team are IMHO dillusional. It makes absolute good business sense to get under the $189 million cap in 2014 since it will save something in the nine figure dollar range.

Where the Yankees went wrong in my opinion , in George's era was to spend to much money on ageing stars instead of putting a big chunk of it into their farm system so we could produce a bevy of young, inexpensive home grown players who could spend a decade or more with us. But they didn't and that's water under the dam. I truly believe we will be competitive in 2013 1nd 2014 and that we will after that try to field the best team money can buy.

In syaing that , we are where we are by signing players to big dollar contracts for obnoxiously long terms. I never want to see us go again into a contract for more than seven years and that in only rare exceptional cases, and for players no more than 32 or 33 years of age. Having ARod contracted till 42 is obscene.

Andy