Are the Yankees planning to operate like a small market team?

[The FUTURE]

sorry, no way we can let Cano go

[Gob Rules]

Letting go of Cano because we signed A-Rod and Teixeira to stupid contracts is stupid. We'll only be a cheap uncreative team for two years.

[Sixty one]

I hate to admit it but it does look like they are headed in a direction that makes them look like a small market. They have several big contracts with players that may be past their peak and few major prospects that could take their place. I would not be surprise if they don't make the playoffs next year.

[longtimeyankeefan]

Cano is going to be a fascinating case study. I don't totally agree with previous posts suggesting that his best, or prime, years are behind him. I suspect he has a ton of gas left in the tank, but if it requires a contract of 10 years, I won't be surprised or disappointed to lose him.

My original concern was simply the idea that Hughes, flawed as he may be, will be too rich for the Yankees blood. As fans, we're just not used to the idea that our own homegrown talent moves on to other teams that can better afford them. He's young. He's 52-36 in his brief career. He's had seasons of 18 and 16 wins. And he's going to be too expensive for the New York Yankees. It's a concept that will take some time to wrap my arms around.

He has also benefited from being on one (if not the) highest scoring teams in all of baseball.

The Yankees routinely score over five runs a game. Hughes has had exactly one season with an ERA below 4.00, and that was primarily in relief, not starting. If he had a career 3.50 ERA, I would agree with you.

However, we are talking about someone who will never be anything more than a #3 starter at best - and probably is more like a #4. He is not worth the money that other teams will pay him.

[apalradio]

He has also benefited from being on one (if not the) highest scoring teams in all of baseball.

The Yankees routinely score over five runs a game. Hughes has had exactly one season with an ERA below 4.00, and that was primarily in relief, not starting. If he had a career 3.50 ERA, I would agree with you.

However, we are talking about someone who will never be anything more than a #3 starter at best - and probably is more like a #4. He is not worth the money that other teams will pay him.

Even though your point about his benefiting from the offense is well taken, he has achieved a level of success that not every pitcher who puts on the pinstripes does. He fits the profile that this team would normally look for. A young pitcher with good upside who has already demonstrated a certain amount of big market success. I'm not saying he's worth whatever we're all speculating some team will pay him, but I'll bet the Yankees are not exactly disinterested in having him stay. It's merely the concept that they may not be able to afford him that I'm finding hard to swallow.

[Hitman23]

I hate to admit it but it does look like they are headed in a direction that makes them look like a small market. They have several big contracts with players that may be past their peak and few major prospects that could take their place. I would not be surprise if they don't make the playoffs next year.

I think you're missing the definition of small market. Not singling you out, many seem to have the same issue. Giving yourself a cap out of choice and good business decisions is way different than being a poor team. The Yankees are gearing up to reload and rebuild. This isn't even close to small market. It's smart and necessary.

[JL25and3]

The Yankees are gearing up to reload and rebuild. This isn't even close to small market. It's smart and necessary.

Or they're just cutting salary.

[Hitman23]

Or they're just cutting salary.

cutting bad salary. And keeping luxury tax to a min.

[JL25and3]

cutting bad salary. And keeping luxury tax to a min.

Maybe. That still doesn't amount to "gearing up to reload and rebuild." Right now, it's just cutting salary.

[Hitman23]

Maybe. That still doesn't amount to "gearing up to reload and rebuild." Right now, it's just cutting salary.

sure it does. the cap they have set's the team up in two years for reloading.

[Hitman23]

these are semantics anyway. the point is they have resources and a huge fanbase. not even close to warrant being compared to small market. our infield is getting paid two decades of the Pirates entire team.

[JL25and3]

sure it does. the cap they have set's the team up in two years for reloading.

these are semantics anyway. the point is they have resources and a huge fanbase. not even close to warrant being compared to small market. our infield is getting paid two decades of the Pirates entire team.

The question isn't whether they are a small market team, or whether they have a small payroll now. It's about how they intend to act in the future, and that's really not clear. You have confidence that they'll use the leeway to "rebuild and reload," but it's just as possible that they're planning to pocket the extra profits. We'll see.

[Hitman23]

fair enough.

[yanksftw]

small market teams don't charge yankees prices

[effdamets]

small market teams don't charge yankees prices

You mean if I went to Pittsburgh, beer doesn't cost $12?

[ZIM 2002]

It seems to me that as time goes forward, the Yankees won't be able to field a continually good team as we have gotten used to seeing, but with a small payroll, until they have been bad for long enough to build up some top draft picks and have them reach the majors. Until then, if they are going to stop trading their youngsters and are stuck with getting free agents, they may continue to be unwilling to pay for the better ones even after 2014.

[longtimeyankeefan]

I love the way that some people on this thread want to suggest that the Yankees' current behavior is indicative of a "small market" team.

Someone show me 1) any small market team that has a payroll in excess of $180M and 2) has actually paid any luxury tax.

The Yankees are not acting like a small market team. They are acting like a business, which is exactly what they are.

[Jax Teller]

I'm going to enjoy watching a Yankee team whose go-to move is not go out & buy the next shiny (and very expensive) toy.

[snapple]

I'm going to enjoy watching a Yankee team whose go-to move is not go out & buy the next shiny (and very expensive) toy.

Same. Unless it's a CC 2.0. That's a very shiny toy that is very much worth buying.

[Pakimobzta]

There's good reason to believe Yankees payroll will be around what it has been last few years ($210M) by 2015, 2016 the latest.

Once Yankees drop under the the new tax threshold in 2014, $189M (up from $178M), their penalties reset. When they go up again they will not be fined as repeat offenders immediately. They will pay at a rate of 17.5% in 2015 (if they go over), 30% in 2016, 40% in 2017, and 50% in 2018. Yankees have a good chance at resetting the penalties and being under the threshold again in 2018, since Arod ('17), Tex('16), and CC ('17) will be off the books.

Some might ask why would the Yankees be willing to pay up to a 40% tax in 2017, for that we can look back at the team's recent history. Yankees have been paying at least a 40% rate since 2006 along with a lower threshold, thus resulting in a larger tax charge.

a. The threshold level of $178 million in 2011 will remain unchanged in 2012 and 2013. The
threshold will increase to $189 million for 2014, 2015, and 2016.
b. The tax rate will decrease to 17.5% for Clubs that exceed the threshold for the first time, and
the rate will increase to 50% for Clubs that exceed the threshold for the fourth time or more. Rates will remain the same for Clubs that exceed the threshold for the second time (30%) and third time (40%). The CBT rates in 2012 will be subject to a transition rule.
c. The Competitive Balance Tax structure under the 2006 Basic Agreement will be modified so that a team that moves below the threshold will be treated as going over for the first time when it next exceeds the threshold.

Avoiding a 50% tax isn't the only reason Yankees are trying to get under the threshold since the threshold rising actually decreases their tax payout up to a certain amount even at a higher tax percentage. Randy Levine has gone on record to say, “In addition to not paying the tax, there are tens of millions of dollars in revenue sharing rebates that will come back to teams like the Yankees if they stay under the threshold.” , so this is probably a bigger incentive of getting under the threshold. This incentive is short-lived since starting in 2016, the top 15 markets will be ineligible for revenue sharing.


Sources:
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/2011_CBA.pdf
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/72...y-historic-one

[JL25and3]

I love the way that some people on this thread want to suggest that the Yankees' current behavior is indicative of a "small market" team.

Someone show me 1) any small market team that has a payroll in excess of $180M and 2) has actually paid any luxury tax.

This is disingenuous, and I think you know it. What you're talking about is the result of their past decisions, and people are discussing their present and future decisions.

If you want to say they're operating like a business, fine. They've always been operating like a business - and a massively profitable one at that.

This incentive is short-lived since starting in 2016, the top 15 markets will be ineligible for revenue sharing.

No, they won't be able to receive revenue-sharing funds per se, but they will be able to get some money back:

...revenue sharing proceeds forfeited by market-disqualified Clubs by operation of this subparagraph 15 shall be refunded to Net Revenue Sharing Payor Clubs

Article XXIV, Section A, subparagraph 15(a)

[Pakimobzta]

No, they won't be able to receive revenue-sharing funds per se, but they will be able to get some money back:

Article XXIV, Section A, subparagraph 15(a)

Thanks for pointing that out, I must have missed it. I wonder if that is a large enough incentive to make them want to stay under the $189M mark.

[longtimeyankeefan]

This is disingenuous, and I think you know it. What you're talking about is the result of their past decisions, and people are discussing their present and future decisions.

If you want to say they're operating like a business, fine. They've always been operating like a business - and a massively profitable one at that.

And isn't your statement disingenuous for deleting the last line of my quote, which states exactly that fact?

As for your point that the Yankees have been a massively profitable business in the past - should they simply disregard the opportunity that is being given to them to actually become more profitable by taking advantage of the rules written into the CBA?

[JL25and3]

And isn't your statement disingenuous for deleting the last line of my quote, which states exactly that fact?

As for your point that the Yankees have been a massively profitable business in the past - should they simply disregard the opportunity that is being given to them to actually become more profitable by taking advantage of the rules written into the CBA?

No, nothing disingenuous about that. I was referring specifically to your statement about being run like a business. I thought that was clear enough. My point was just that the idea that they're being run like a business is neither new nor any great revelation. They've always been run like a very, very profitable business.

They can take whatever opportunity they like. They can pocket whatever profit they like. But they're changing their business model and the way they make decisions. If people want to ask whether the new model more closely resembles the way small-market teams make decisions, it's a reasonable question.

[pacersyankees]

No way they should give Cano ten years. There are ways to replace his value without wrecking the team's future with another suicidal contract.

Interesting how Cano's post season failures (.222 BA) are rarely mentioned yet Swisher was repeatedly crucified for his