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  1. #101
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    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by ieddyi View Post
    Exactly. And that danger happens while actively taking PED's

    The only long term danger I've read about are heart complications. All of the " joints falling apart after roid use " hasn't been proven to the best of my knowledge
    Possibly. I haven't found any conclusive studies. But on the face the muscle bulk out striping the tendons/ligaments ablilty to keep up with the muscle grwoth leading to increased risk of tears makes sense to me from a biological viewpoint.

    I have found a number of studies showing the heart problems you reference as well as seperate studies showing long term liver and kidney damange.

    There are also studies on bone loss/osteoperosis though for the the bone loss that's more associated with long term cordical steriod use for medical treatment of diseases like Chrones Disease or Asthma rather that anabolic steriods used to bulk up.

    http://circheartfailure.ahajournals....9.931063.short

    http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/ASN/16705
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  2. #102
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    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by ieddyi View Post
    Exactly. And that danger happens while actively taking PED's

    The only long term danger I've read about are heart complications. All of the " joints falling apart after roid use " hasn't been proven to the best of my knowledge
    Not proven, but there is definitely anecdotal evidence that there is strain on both tendons and ligaments. Say steroids give you 30% stronger/bigger muscles, but the ligament only thickens to support an additional 10%. Even though the ligament is "stronger" it is still not strong enough to necessarily support the additional muscle.

    Also, no one knows if Alex is not on PED's. He could easily still be using HGH or the like.

    Finally, I think like with EPO in cycling, the drugs affect individuals differently. It could be an injury that just happened in his right hip, then - overcompensating, it damaged his left hip.

    That said, it just seems like steroids played a part....no way to prove.

    End of day...we have a 3B'men with two bum hips, not good.
    Goin for 2<strike>7</strike>8!

  3. #103
    Your 2014 NY Yankees JDPNYY's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    Get well soon Alex.
    Pardon, for us.

  4. #104

    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    As I said in the other thread, it seems to me that the Yankees should have done MRIs on both hips the night Alex spent in the hospital during the ALDS. Catching it then would have saved two months of the season.

    I really think they should have assumed something was wrong physically and looked harder.

  5. #105

    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by goin for 27 View Post
    Also, no one knows if Alex is not on PED's. He could easily still be using HGH or the like.

    Finally, I think like with EPO in cycling, the drugs affect individuals differently. It could be an injury that just happened in his right hip, then - overcompensating, it damaged his left hip.

    That said, it just seems like steroids played a part....no way to prove.
    Right, and no one knows if Jeter is not on lots of PEDs. Maybe it "seems" like they played a part in his injury, and CC's injury, and maybe Mariano's too. No way to prove, is there?

    The real bottom line: You have no idea whatsoever. You are just blowing smoke.

  6. #106
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    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    He won't retire as that would void the contract. He just won't play. See Joey AKA Albert Belle.

    I can only think one instance of an injuryed player retiring and walking away from guaranteed money, ever and that was some pitcher for KC in the last 2 or 3 years. Forget his name.
    How about another poster child for steroids, Mark McGwire? Lots of similarities here.
    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...1-14-cover.htm
    He looked around the visiting clubhouse at Bank One Ballpark. He looked at the faces of his St. Louis Cardinal teammates. They all knew this team was good enough to go all the way. Instead, they had just lost a dramatic five-game series to the Arizona Diamondbacks.

    If he could just have been a semblance of himself against the Diamondbacks, maybe they could be going to the next round. Maybe they could win the World Series, just as the Diamondbacks eventually did. Instead, they were going home, and he blamed himself.

    He was going so bad that he was actually taken out for a pinch-hitter in the ninth inning. For Kerry Robinson! Was he really that bad? Nothing against Robinson, mind you, but the strategy made it pretty obvious that his time had come.
    ...
    McGwire stood by his locker that night and hinted that this could be it. "I'm going to sit back and think about things. Your body can only go far. I'll probably let you guys (the media) know through fax or e-mail."

    But come on, he was asked, you just signed a two-year, $30 million contract extension. You have 583 home runs. Are you going to walk away from all of that?

    "I don't play for numbers and I don't play for money," McGwire said. "(Money) doesn't have any effect on me playing baseball.
    ...
    "It doesn't come down to want," he said. "It doesn't come down to playing. It comes down to what I can do physically. My body is pretty worn out. And my mind is definitely worn out."
    I still don't think that Alex Rodriguez is going to walk away, but there is precedent.

  7. #107
    The gerbil lives Zimmers' Helmet's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldee5 View Post
    How about another poster child for steroids, Mark McGwire? Lots of similarities here.
    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...1-14-cover.htm

    I still don't think that Alex Rodriguez is going to walk away, but there is precedent.
    Agreed, but McGwire was wired very differently from ARod. McGwire wasn't willing to continue playing at sub-par levels in order to pad his career stats. I get the sense that statistical milestones (and their subsequent bonuses) are a motivating factor for Alex.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  8. #108

    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by goin for 27 View Post
    Not proven, but there is definitely anecdotal evidence that there is strain on both tendons and ligaments. Say steroids give you 30% stronger/bigger muscles, but the ligament only thickens to support an additional 10%. Even though the ligament is "stronger" it is still not strong enough to necessarily support the additional muscle.

    Also, no one knows if Alex is not on PED's. He could easily still be using HGH or the like.

    Finally, I think like with EPO in cycling, the drugs affect individuals differently. It could be an injury that just happened in his right hip, then - overcompensating, it damaged his left hip.

    That said, it just seems like steroids played a part....no way to prove.

    End of day...we have a 3B'men with two bum hips, not good.
    I was agreeing on the tendon/ligament damage, just pointing out that you'll probably only see the effect during cycles on the drugs. Unless there is permanent serious damage, ligaments can heal to a certain extent- though a lot of the time scar tissue replaces normal tissue.

    I remember a lot of people thought that Arod was a good bet to age well because he was a conditioning fanatic and was barely ever injured

    The good ole ( naive ) days
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  9. #109

    Wink Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by rajah View Post
    As for # 1, you have no idea. You are just speculating. I could do the same speculating about many other ball players who are being considered as "clean" for the HOF this year. They all deny it and they all could have done it. We don't know and almost certainly never will. Why give some the benefit of the doubt and not others? The HOF has become a sad PR joke.

    As for # 2, an increased risk does not establish causation. And the risks increases are for certain injuries with certain PEDs, as far as I have read. People just make wild statements abour PEDs without having any basis for assuming something is true.
    Arods biographer said he was using steroids in high school. Experts in the field believe steroidbuse causes hip problems and a general physical deterioration early in life. Arod now has two bad hips at the age of 37. Far short of the threshold of "reasonable doubt", but i think its pretty reasonable to assume, through the perspective of a fan, that a lot of his success is due to steroid use and a lot of his physical decline, which is not at all normal for a 37 year old, is also due to steroid use.

    Arod is hardly alone, obviously, but he looks like a broken down mcgwire in his waning days.

  10. #110
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    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    Who was the player (Orioles or Mets, I think) who had a bad hip problem and stayed around for several seasons just to collect his contract dollars?
    Forgive me for taking the Contrarian view

  11. #111
    The gerbil lives Zimmers' Helmet's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by longtimeyankeefan View Post
    Who was the player (Orioles or Mets, I think) who had a bad hip problem and stayed around for several seasons just to collect his contract dollars?
    Albert Belle
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  12. #112
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    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by rajah View Post
    Right, and no one knows if Jeter is not on lots of PEDs. Maybe it "seems" like they played a part in his injury, and CC's injury, and maybe Mariano's too. No way to prove, is there?

    The real bottom line: You have no idea whatsoever. You are just blowing smoke.
    Don't really know why you are bringing up players who never tested positive. I gave the caveats.....I just think that there is a relationship in ARod being only 37 years old with two bad hips, and the fact that he took (and perhaps still takes) PED's.

    I of course have no idea whatsoever.....I don't know ARod personally, etc. That said, once a cheater.....if ARod would take steroids for years and years, why would he suddenly NOT take something that cannot be tested for?
    Goin for 2<strike>7</strike>8!

  13. #113

    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    your use of "only" before "37" is confusing. also one of the main benefits of using HGH is that it reduces injury risk.

  14. #114
    The gerbil lives Zimmers' Helmet's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by spikeowenfan View Post
    your use of "only" before "37" is confusing. also one of the main benefits of using HGH is that it reduces injury risk.
    As long as you continue using it, yes this is true.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  15. #115
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    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by spikeowenfan View Post
    your use of "only" before "37" is confusing. also one of the main benefits of using HGH is that it reduces injury risk.
    Only 37 years old...the guy is young to have two bad hips. And yeah, perhaps HGH is not a good example...let's just say PED's....as you one would think that the HGH would help.
    Goin for 2<strike>7</strike>8!

  16. #116
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    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFan1421 View Post
    Arods biographer said he was using steroids in high school. Experts in the field believe steroidbuse causes hip problems and a general physical deterioration early in life. Arod now has two bad hips at the age of 37. Far short of the threshold of "reasonable doubt", but i think its pretty reasonable to assume, through the perspective of a fan, that a lot of his success is due to steroid use and a lot of his physical decline, which is not at all normal for a 37 year old, is also due to steroid use.

    Arod is hardly alone, obviously, but he looks like a broken down mcgwire in his waning days.
    Agreed.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  17. #117

    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by longtimeyankeefan View Post
    Who was the player (Orioles or Mets, I think)
    Based on this I am guessing you somehow have a neural pathway linking Albert Belle and Bobby Bonilla. Which (if I'm right) makes me chuckle because, for reasons I'm not sure I can explain, that makes sense to me.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  18. #118

    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by rajah View Post
    Right, and no one knows if Jeter is not on lots of PEDs. Maybe it "seems" like they played a part in his injury, and CC's injury, and maybe Mariano's too. No way to prove, is there?

    The real bottom line: You have no idea whatsoever. You are just blowing smoke.
    Thats right. Nobody here knows with 100% certainty that jeter and rivera never used steroids. All most of us go on is the fact that neither has seemed to have changed physically (except for getting old) and both have had deteriorating performance as theyve aged (albeit slightly for the most part).

    Also we dont know for sure that arod ever used steroids. At one point he told 60 minutes that he didnt. At another point he said he did....while we can be sure he lied at one of these two points, we dont know for sure at which point he was lying.

    So, i guess its not at all reasonable to connect the dots and think arod used steroids to enhance his performance and that it subsequently caused his body to break down.

  19. #119
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    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by goin for 27 View Post
    Only 37 years old...the guy is young to have two bad hips. And yeah, perhaps HGH is not a good example...let's just say PED's....as you one would think that the HGH would help.
    If Arod was a racehorse, he'd be in the glue factory by now

  20. #120
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    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by BronxBombers92 View Post
    If Arod was a racehorse, he'd be in the glue factory by now
    More likely out to stud...

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  21. #121
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    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Big_E View Post
    More likely out to stud...
    Hard to mount with two bad hips.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  22. #122

    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFan1421 View Post
    Arods biographer said he was using steroids in high school. Experts in the field believe steroidbuse causes hip problems and a general physical deterioration early in life. Arod now has two bad hips at the age of 37. Far short of the threshold of "reasonable doubt", but i think its pretty reasonable to assume, through the perspective of a fan, that a lot of his success is due to steroid use and a lot of his physical decline, which is not at all normal for a 37 year old, is also due to steroid use.

    Arod is hardly alone, obviously, but he looks like a broken down mcgwire in his waning days.
    Who is this biographer? Why should I, or you, believe him? People can and do print anything that sells books.

    And who are the "experts in the field?" I would like to see a link. I could be convinced, but the speculative posts here are just smoke.

    And what is the "perspective of a fan?" The perspective of someone who likes to wildly speculate?

    My perspective as a human being is to give people the benefit of the doubt and not to tag some people as cheaters and others as good guys.

    Ball players break down in their 30s all the time. Did Don Mattingly use steroids? Did Dale Murphy? Mickey Mantle?

  23. #123

    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...ticle-1.366754

    Are these some of the "experts in the field?"

  24. #124

    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Get well soon, Alex.
    Come on, man.
    Thank you for making me calm today, Brett Gardner

  25. #125

    Re: Alex Rodriguez To Have Hip Surgery- Miss Part of 2013 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by rajah View Post
    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...ticle-1.366754

    Are these some of the "experts in the field?"
    This is from the first surgery but it explains the structural abnormality that contributed to his condition. But I'm sure it's a lot more fun to just blame steroids.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...hip/index.html

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