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  1. #51
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyTheJetRodriguez View Post
    There are over the counter testosterone boosters. They aren't difficult to get at all. Many are advertised for on TV and radio. Taking a test booster is COMPLETELY different from taking anabolic steroids. It's also extremely easy to mask, so he might not even stop taking it. The fact that he actuall tested positive for testosterone tells me that that is all he is taking. Everything else is much more difficult to hide.
    Why is it completely different? I thought the idea of anabolic steroids as PEDs was to boost testosterone levels. Isn't this just another (banned) means to the same end?
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
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  2. #52

    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    1) Reyes
    2) Melky
    3) Bautista
    4) Encarnacion
    5) Lawrie
    6) Rasmus
    7) Lind
    8) Arencibia/Buck
    9) Johnson/Bonafacio

    Not turrible...

  3. #53
    The gerbil lives Zimmers' Helmet's Avatar
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    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Why is it completely different? I thought the idea of anabolic steroids as PEDs was to boost testosterone levels. Isn't this just another (banned) means to the same end?
    There's a fine line between steroids/GH/PED's and boosting your body's ability to produce its own testosterone.

    Natural herbs such as Tribulus, Tongkat Ali, and Horny Goat Weed can all boost testosterone levels. Should this be considered cheating? No more so than saying eating steak should be banned since it's high in protein which in turn helps build muscle.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  4. #54
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    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Why is it completely different? I thought the idea of anabolic steroids as PEDs was to boost testosterone levels. Isn't this just another (banned) means to the same end?
    Precisely. The primary difference is that "steroids" have harsher side effects than "testosterone" treatments, but they are essentially the same. MLB tests specifically for elevated testosterone levels, so of course that is what Melky was found "guilty" of using. At the end of the day it's semantics.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  5. #55

    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    Precisely. The primary difference is that "steroids" have harsher side effects than "testosterone" treatments, but they are essentially the same. MLB tests specifically for elevated testosterone levels, so of course that is what Melky was found "guilty" of using. At the end of the day it's semantics.
    No, I'm sorry, thats just wrong.

    Steroids keep your body in an anabolic state constantly, basically eliminating the catabolic process. Testosterone alone can NOT do this. In fact, a side effect of steroid use is often the development of breasts caused by a spike in estrogen, which could not be more different from testosterone. Steroid use can actually cause the body to become dependent on the anabolic agent to produce testosterone, which of course would lead to a drop in test levels.

    I don'tknow if I am misunderstanding your point or if you are talking out for your butt, but I do know that the difference between Anabolic Steroids and test boosters is NOT semantics. Its important that people know that.

    If you want to make the point that Melky was likely taking the test booster while cycling off of an anabolic steroid, that’s fine, but that didn't show up in his drug test, and the drug that did is NOT equivalent to anabolic steroids.

  6. #56
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmers' Helmet View Post
    There's a fine line between steroids/GH/PED's and boosting your body's ability to produce its own testosterone.

    Natural herbs such as Tribulus, Tongkat Ali, and Horny Goat Weed can all boost testosterone levels. Should this be considered cheating? No more so than saying eating steak should be banned since it's high in protein which in turn helps build muscle.
    Except that, as I understand it, the bans of Melky, Colon, etc have been for synthetic testosterone.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  7. #57

    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Why is it completely different? I thought the idea of anabolic steroids as PEDs was to boost testosterone levels. Isn't this just another (banned) means to the same end?
    Steroids do a lot more than simply boosting testosterone. If thats all they did then they wouldn't be worth some of the side effects, people would just use test boosters, which are much easier to hide. So is it a means to the same end? Yes, but so are working out, sleeping, and eating certain foods.

  8. #58
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    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyTheJetRodriguez View Post
    Steroids do a lot more than simply boosting testosterone. If thats all they did then they wouldn't be worth some of the side effects, people would just use test boosters, which are much easier to hide. So is it a means to the same end? Yes, but so are working out, sleeping, and eating certain foods.
    The thing is, I agree that it's more likely that Melky used synthetic testosterone than steroids. Victor Conte has stated that it is the PED of choice these days. My point is that it doesn't make Melky any less of a cheater. I dont understand why some are getting all bent out of shape because someone said Melky used steroids rather testosterone. They're both used for the same purpose.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  9. #59
    Bazinga Hitman23's Avatar
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    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyTheJetRodriguez View Post
    I don'tknow if I am misunderstanding your point or if you are talking out for your butt, but I do know that the difference between Anabolic Steroids and test boosters is NOT semantics. Its important that people know that.
    I don't think anyone is trying to say the two are the same. The semantics part is that, just like John said, a means to the same end. Both are banned and are considered cheating. Both are used to enhance your performance. These details are, while interesting, pointless.
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  10. #60

    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    The thing is, I agree that it's more likely that Melky used synthetic testosterone than steroids. Victor Conte has stated that it is the PED of choice these days. My point is that it doesn't make Melky any less of a cheater. I dont understand why some are getting all bent out of shape because someone said Melky used steroids rather testosterone. They're both used for the same purpose.
    I got you. My point was never to defend Melky.

    It's funny though; Melky was overrated by Yankee fans when he sucked, but is now underrated by Yankee fans because of the whole testosterone thing. I think, considering what Hunter got from Detroit, the Blue Jays did well here.

  11. #61
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyTheJetRodriguez View Post
    It's funny though; Melky was overrated by Yankee fans when he sucked
    Certainly not by me. I could never understand the confidence some fans had in him, despite his actual performance.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  12. #62
    Bazinga Hitman23's Avatar
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    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Certainly not by me. I could never understand the confidence some fans had in him, despite his actual performance.
    I was on his bandwagon. There was something about him that made me think he was going to be really good. I could not pinpoint it but he was a player I wanted to see given a chance to improve. I believe even though he failed that test last year he's still going to be very good even off whatever he was taking. He's probably not going to be at the level he showed last year but I still think he's a good and useful player.
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  13. #63
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    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    surprised someone game him a 2 year deal. Would have thought everyone would have offered him something like 1 yr/$6 million
    The real reason why the Yankees keep winning is cause the other team can't stop staring at the damn pinstripes

  14. #64

    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    not rly. i called those 2 factors from the very start.
    So if he does well, you are right about steroids. If he does bad, you have 2 excuses in your holster.

    Good situation to be in.
    [QUOTE=TheKillerB's]Bichette is going to be big, quote me on it.[/QUOTE]

  15. #65

    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    nope. i am just being reasonable
    always reasonable

  16. #66
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    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyTheJetRodriguez View Post
    1) Reyes
    2) Melky
    3) Bautista
    4) Encarnacion
    5) Lawrie
    6) Rasmus
    7) Lind
    8) Arencibia/Buck
    9) Johnson/Bonafacio

    Not turrible...
    Johnson is gone. It'll be Bonifacio starting at 2B with Izturis on the bench.

  17. #67

    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    nope. i am just being reasonable
    No outcomes make you wrong, in a fairly unpredictable scenario. Very reasonable.
    [QUOTE=TheKillerB's]Bichette is going to be big, quote me on it.[/QUOTE]

  18. #68

    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    any outcome without those causal factors will make me wrong.
    always reasonable

  19. #69

    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Certainly not by me. I could never understand the confidence some fans had in him, despite his actual performance.
    It's easy to root for Derek Jeter.
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  20. #70
    R-I-P, Mr. Nelson Mandela Jersey Yankee's Avatar
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    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    If the Blue Jays and O's do well, does this mean that Beantown will be stuck in the basement, even w/o Booby V?
    Dr King (1929-68): Make the Dream a Reality.
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  21. #71
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    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Certainly not by me. I could never understand the confidence some fans had in him, despite his actual performance.
    With the bat, he wasn't that good. I think that if he was more strict in his approach and got more consistent, he could lay down a booming double every now and then.

    The Melkman delivered ... a booming arm from the corner OF. He coulda been a solid defensive replacement coming off the bench.
    Dr King (1929-68): Make the Dream a Reality.
    RIP, Nelson Mandela, Jackie #42 & Rosa Parks; Ali: Get up…get up; Isaac Hayes; Stevie Wonder: Isn't She Lovely?; Dr J: Fear the 'Fro; Smokin' Joe

  22. #72
    The gerbil lives Zimmers' Helmet's Avatar
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    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Except that, as I understand it, the bans of Melky, Colon, etc have been for synthetic testosterone.
    Agreed, but as I understand it, MLB tests for elevated testosterone levels. All I'm saying is that elevated testosterone levels don't always mean a player has taken synthetic testosterone.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  23. #73
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmers' Helmet View Post
    Agreed, but as I understand it, MLB tests for elevated testosterone levels. All I'm saying is that elevated testosterone levels don't always mean a player has taken synthetic testosterone.
    They check the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone, which is normally 1:1. If the ratio hits 4:1, they can run a more sophisticated test to see if the testosterone came from outside the body.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  24. #74
    Hello dum-dum... effdamets's Avatar
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    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by fredgmuggs View Post
    It's easy to root for Derek Jeter.
    Muggz... you realize that Jeter has no range and should be traded, if not executed, immediately.... Right?
    How can you root for someone like Jeter....?

    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

  25. #75

    Re: Melky Cabrera signed by Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Why is it completely different? I thought the idea of anabolic steroids as PEDs was to boost testosterone levels. Isn't this just another (banned) means to the same end?
    It's like the difference between a shot of bourbon and a shot of ginger ale, in terms of potency.

    Steroids are wonderful and work. OTC supplements are mostly poop, except for the few grey area prohormones.
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