Jays Close to Acquiring Josh Johnson and Mark Buehrle from Miami (MLB Trade Rumors)

[YESSIR!]

I just don't understand what vetoing the trade does. IMO MLB would be setting a dangerous prescedence by blocking this trade. It makes sense from a baseball standpoint, it's just a big middle finger to the people of Miami-Dade. But I don't know if it's a valid enough reason to veto the trade.

It would only set a precedence for cases where a franchise unloads virtually every single player they have making anything resembling a Big League salary to achieve a payroll that's so far below the MLB average it's a complete joke, while at the same time having built a new publicy-funded stadium, which comes with it an implicit promise to compete in good will to the best of your abilities, and as resources allow. Remember, this began at the break last season when they unloaded Anibal and Hanley, amongst others. This team is unrecognizable. Meanwhile, they'll be taking another nice fat handout from the Yankees, as is their wont. It's laughable.

edit: There're reasons the commissioner has veto power in the first place. This, imo, is one of those reasons.

[ieddyi]

The Rogers Center doesn't use astroturf, they have field turf

Yep, but still has gotta be harder on the legs than grass and Reyes has a history of lower leg problems

[ieddyi]

Salary floor anyone?

How is Loria not worse than McCourt?

[RhodyYanksFan]

If anything I think Miami-Dade County and the State of Florida should look in to litigation against the team for the public funds they doled out under the guise of having a competitive team and the revenues that would follow. They spent over $350 million of taxpayer money to build this stadium that will now probably average 3,500 fans a game next year. They were fleeced by snake oil salesmen who lied to the government to get something paid for.

[eaganmafia]

It would only set a precedence for cases where a franchise unloads virtually every single player they have making anything resembling a Big League salary to achieve a payroll that's so far below the MLB average it's a complete joke, while at the same time having built a new publicy-funded stadium, which comes with it an implicit promise to compete in good will to the best of your abilities, and as resources allow. Remember, this began at the break last season when they unloaded Anibal and Hanley, amongst others. This team is unrecognizable. Meanwhile, they'll be taking another nice fat handout from the Yankees, as is their wont. It's laughable.

edit: There're reasons the commissioner has veto power in the first place. This, imo, is one of those reasons.

Trust me I get all that.

But isn't this what bad teams do, unload vets for prospects? I'm as sick as anyone about what Loria and his group have done to the Miami area and it's fans. But at the end of the day, bad teams unload contracts and bad teams get prospects in return to try and rebuild later on down the road. Miami is a bad team and keeping Reyes, Johnson and Burhle around isn't gonna change anything for the next few years. From a baseball standpoint it makes sense, that's why I think it's a dangerous precedence Bud would have to go down. He'd be shooting down a trade that 99.9% of bad teams in baseball would make. But it's when you factor in the other things like the stadium, public money and revenue sharing that it become a bit of a sticky situation.

I don't wanna sound like the president of the Jeffery Loria fan-club. I guess I just don't see why Bud should veto the trade.

[Snatch Catch]

Yep, but still has gotta be harder on the legs than grass and Reyes has a history of lower leg problems

If you were talking about a traumatic knee injury, then I think you're right. Even though they use the pellet system, cleats can still catch in field turf in ways that won't happen on grass because the soil will divot.

But if we're talking everyday wear and tear from impact and surface consistency, I'd be surprised if grass is easier on the legs. Field turf is made specifically with shock absorbtion and impact/stress relief in mind.

[Snatch Catch]

If anything I think Miami-Dade County and the State of Florida should look in to litigation against the team for the public funds they doled out under the guise of having a competitive team and the revenues that would follow. They spent over $350 million of taxpayer money to build this stadium that will now probably average 3,500 fans a game next year. They were fleeced by snake oil salesmen who lied to the government to get something paid for.

Yes.

The terribleness of this trade is a civic issue, not a baseball one.

[eaganmafia]

If anything I think Miami-Dade County and the State of Florida should look in to litigation against the team for the public funds they doled out under the guise of having a competitive team and the revenues that would follow. They spent over $350 million of taxpayer money to build this stadium that will now probably average 3,500 fans a game next year. They were fleeced by snake oil salesmen who lied to the government to get something paid for.

Right on!! This is an issue between the people of Folrida and the Marlins organization. Not something that MLB should stick it's nose into.

[TheInfallibleOne]

Gotta wonder how Reyes' legs are gonna hold up playing on turf

The Rogers Center doesn't use astroturf, they have field turf

Why would this impact Reyes? Shortstop doesn't play much on the grass. He's pretty much going to be in the basepath one way or another. I thought this was something that really only impacts outfielders.

[35Knucklecurve]

Loria's got some 'splainin' to do:

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/...ansactions-mlb

If our ballpark could speak, its first words would be, 'Hola, Miami.' " -- Owner Jeffrey Loria, Nov. 11, 2011, at the unveiling of the Marlins' new uniforms.

"I just want you to know that if you decide not to make a decision tonight, that will be the death knell for baseball in Miami. We are out of time." -- Then MLB president Bob Dupuy to Miami commission members, Feb. 21, 2008, before they decided on whether to approve funding for a new ballpark.

"This is the final piece of the puzzle," -- Loria, Feb. 21, 2008, after the funding for the park is approved. He also thanked a long list of city and county officials for "saving baseball in Miami."

I didn't think it was possible for this franchise to be any more disfunctional that it already was........this beats anything I could have imagined.
The citizens whose taxes paid for this stadium should be able to use it as a write-off.

[Snatch Catch]

Why would this impact Reyes? Shortstop doesn't play much on the grass. He's pretty much going to be in the basepath one way or another. I thought this was something that really only impacts outfielders.

[grizy]

[RhodyYanksFan]

To draw 1,000,000 fans a season you have to average 12,346 per home game. There's no way the Marlins do that next year. Even if they get 10,000 at an average price of $30 that's $24,300,000 in gate revenues for tickets. That's the team payroll right there before a single beer is sold or a cent of revenue sharing or luxury tax comes in. All that money goes right to Loria's pocket. The taxpayers should go after that.

[Yogi]

To draw 1,000,000 fans a season you have to average 12,346 per home game. There's no way the Marlins do that next year. Even if they get 10,000 at an average price of $30 that's $24,300,000 in gate revenues for tickets. That's the team payroll right there before a single beer is sold or a cent of revenue sharing or luxury tax comes in. All that money goes right to Loria's pocket. The taxpayers should go after that.

I hear lots of people talking about how good Toronto is going to be next year and wringing their hands. The trade may look good on paper but the bottom line is Miami lost 93 games and finished in last place with those guys last year not to mention that Yunel Escobar and Adeiny Hechavarria are quality players that will be gone.

[freebubba]

I thought this was a pretty good read... Loria is a scumbag and the people of Miami-Dade County should run his ass out of town at the very least. Where is Tony Montana when you need him?

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/marlins...ves-blame.html

[snapple]

Pretty much. Johnson and Buehrle are going to be pitching in band boxes for a lot of the sesaon. Plus, the offense in the AL Beast is a lot more potent.

[Mr. Mxylsplk]

Right on!! This is an issue between the people of Folrida and the Marlins organization. Not something that MLB should stick it's nose into.

Well, mlb has a pretty strong vested interest in muncipalities continuing to be willing to fund stadiums. To the extent this impacts that going forward, it's certainly an issue for the league as a whole.

[eaganmafia]

not to mention that Yunel Escobar and Adeiny Hechavarria are quality players that will be gone.

Excuse me?

[eaganmafia]

Well, mlb has a pretty strong vested interest in muncipalities continuing to be willing to fund stadiums. To the extent this impacts that going forward, it's certainly an issue for the league as a whole.

It's done, the Miami market is already destoryed if this trade happens or not. If it wasn't for that shinny new stadium I'd say the Marlins would be moving soon.

[False1]

I hear lots of people talking about how good Toronto is going to be next year and wringing their hands. The trade may look good on paper but the bottom line is Miami lost 93 games and finished in last place with those guys last year not to mention that Yunel Escobar and Adeiny Hechavarria are quality players that will be gone.

So Miami's loss total is some sort of measuring stick for this trade? And on what planet are Escobar and Hechavarria quality players? Hate Reyes all you want, but he is a massive upgrade over Escobar.

[snapple]

.......so why don't the Yankees have Stanton yet?

[pleasepassthesoup]

.......so why don't the Yankees have Stanton yet?

Giancarlo Stanton of
1 year/$0.48M (2012)
ML service: 1.118

[snapple]

Giancarlo Stanton of
1 year/$0.48M (2012)
ML service: 1.118

The very same.

[eaganmafia]

Giancarlo Stanton of
1 year/$0.48M (2012)
ML service: 1.118

Is there even a team in baseball that has the prospects to trade for Stanton (if he was available, which he's not)

[snapple]

Is there even a team in baseball that has the prospects to trade for Stanton (if he was available, which he's not)

Marlin's GM said every player was available at the winter meetings. Unload the farm for him, IMO.