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  1. #1
    It's About the Money
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    Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    The Yankees obviously aren't going to sign Zack Greinke this winter, but a more interesting question is why they've been pushing the line that he can't play in New York because of his anxiety issues, which is total nonsense.

    http://itsaboutthemoney.net/archives...d-big-markets/

    This isn't to say that SAD couldn't be a problem for Greinke, just that there's no particular danger t playing in New York.

  2. #2
    The gerbil lives Zimmers' Helmet's Avatar
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    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by Brien Jackson View Post
    The Yankees obviously aren't going to sign Zack Greinke this winter, but a more interesting question is why they've been pushing the line that he can't play in New York because of his anxiety issues, which is total nonsense.

    http://itsaboutthemoney.net/archives...d-big-markets/

    This isn't to say that SAD couldn't be a problem for Greinke, just that there's no particular danger t playing in New York.
    Not sure I would say it's total nonsense - we've already seen guys like Ed Whitson, Kenny Rogers, and Carl Pavano buckle under the pressure of pitching in NY, so the concerns are legitimate to me.

    That's not to say Grienke can't handle NY - but if he's already predisposed to anxiety issues, I'm not sure it's prudent to spend $100 million to find out if he can handle the additional pressure of pitching in NY.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  3. #3
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    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    I don't think anyone on this board is in a position to say if Zach could or couldn't handle New York.

    The bottom line is he's a talented pitcher that any team would be lucky to have.

  4. #4
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    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmers' Helmet View Post
    Not sure I would say it's total nonsense - we've already seen guys like Ed Whitson, Kenny Rogers, and Carl Pavano buckle under the pressure of pitching in NY, so the concerns are legitimate to me.

    That's not to say Grienke can't handle NY - but if he's already predisposed to anxiety issues, I'm not sure it's prudent to spend $100 million to find out if he can handle the additional pressure of pitching in NY.
    I think you can add Randy Johnson and Kevin Brown to the list. Although RJ didn't seem to have any predisposition toward not being able to handle pressure, he was miserable in NY. His reaction to a photograher on the street not long after he signed could have been caution flag. Brown was already a basket case, so he didn't have far to go.
    September 28, 2008 - the day the HOF got a wake-up Moose call.

  5. #5
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    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by eaganmafia View Post
    I don't think anyone on this board is in a position to say if Zach could or couldn't handle New York.

    The bottom line is he's a talented pitcher that any team would be lucky to have.
    Click through both links: Russell Carelton has a Ph.D. in psychology, and he's the one saying that it's nonsense.

  6. #6

    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    um, the word mental illness is inappropriate RE Greinke. he just has social anxiety which is pretty widespread.
    always reasonable

  7. #7
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    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    I didn't get a chance to read your article, but the fact that Greinke (allegedly) spoke to Cashman a few years back and told him he wants to play in NY says a lot to me.

    I would never sign him due to his price, but I'm just saying..

  8. #8
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    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    um, the word mental illness is inappropriate RE Greinke. he just has social anxiety which is pretty widespread.
    Carleton did use the term "mental illness" here:
    were using Greinke’s mental health issues to manipulate the market for him by feigning disinterest, or c) were never interested in acquiring Greinke, and cynically used his mental illness to keep criticism from fans/media

    I guess since we're talking about a professional athlete getting paid millions of dollars, the type of fear he has is going to become a topic of disagreement. If he had a fear of heights as opposed to a fear of doing/saying something embarrassing, it would be more clear cut. Since Grienke has chosen not to hide his struggle, maybe that's one of the ways he deals with it.
    September 28, 2008 - the day the HOF got a wake-up Moose call.

  9. #9
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    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    um, the word mental illness is inappropriate RE Greinke. he just has social anxiety which is pretty widespread.
    Social anxiety isn't a clinical mental disorder?

  10. #10

    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by Brien Jackson View Post
    Social anxiety isn't a clinical mental disorder?
    It is according to the DSM-IV.
    "A nickel ain't worth a dime anymore."

    I love baseball in general and the Yankees just happen to be my favorite team since I knew what baseball was.

  11. #11
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    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by 35Knucklecurve View Post
    I think you can add Randy Johnson and Kevin Brown to the list. Although RJ didn't seem to have any predisposition toward not being able to handle pressure, he was miserable in NY. His reaction to a photograher on the street not long after he signed could have been caution flag. Brown was already a basket case, so he didn't have far to go.
    I was captivated by Joe Torre's charactertization of Unit in his book a few years ago. Basically described him as insecure, and hardly the intimidating monster he otherwise always appeared to be. In fact, Joe said something to the effect that he wished he had known how soft Johnson really was when they were playing against him all those years.
    Yankee fan living in Maine.

  12. #12

    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by Brien Jackson View Post
    Social anxiety isn't a clinical mental disorder?
    mental illness has quite heavy handed associations
    always reasonable

  13. #13
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by Brien Jackson View Post
    Click through both links: Russell Carelton has a Ph.D. in psychology, and he's the one saying that it's nonsense.
    I also have a Ph.D. In clinical psychology, and I think Dr. Carleton makes an awful lot of unwarranted assumptions without knowing any of the specifics of Greinke's issues.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
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  14. #14
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    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    mental illness has quite heavy handed associations
    That's part of the point.

  15. #15

    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    in general I think "can player X handle New York" is an overrated concern. Some free agent busts have been attributed to that, but with little or no evidence. Players and announcers all say playing in New York is different, but I really don't understand what the issue is. Is playing in front of 40k people different than playing in front of 30k? Or is there a difference between talking to 2 reporters after a game vs. 12? Talk radio, fans with a higher frequency of booing, etc. I don't see how any of those things could have any substantial effect on veteran players. is there something I'm missing?

  16. #16

    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by Brien Jackson View Post
    That's part of the point.
    yea i know that's my point. what's yours
    always reasonable

  17. #17
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    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by spikeowenfan View Post
    in general I think "can player X handle New York" is an overrated concern. Some free agent busts have been attributed to that, but with little or no evidence. Players and announcers all say playing in New York is different, but I really don't understand what the issue is. Is playing in front of 40k people different than playing in front of 30k? Or is there a difference between talking to 2 reporters after a game vs. 12? Talk radio, fans with a higher frequency of booing, etc. I don't see how any of those things could have any substantial effect on veteran players. is there something I'm missing?

    Wow,

    I guess till you are in the NY limelight, you will never understand. There is a difference, a tremendous one, and don't ask me to explain like those stupid NY reporters who constantly asked Rex Ryan why he preferred Sanchez. He just did and he certainly has more knowledge than the media.

    Andy
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  18. #18

    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by Nome View Post
    Wow,

    I guess till you are in the NY limelight, you will never understand. There is a difference, a tremendous one, and don't ask me to explain like those stupid NY reporters who constantly asked Rex Ryan why he preferred Sanchez. He just did and he certainly has more knowledge than the media.

    Andy
    It doesn't make a tangible difference on the field though, which is his point. Kenny Rogers had crappy seasons with other teams, Kevin Brown was old, Randy Johnson was old and actually pitched well here his first season, Carl Pavano had injuries and bad seasons with other teams, Javier Vazquez had bad seasons with other teams... People who play well for the Yankees play poorly for other teams! Did Paul O'Neill crumble under the pressure of Cincinnati? Scott Brocius couldn't handle Oakland?

    The "can't handle New York" argument is and always has been silly and makes people seem ignorant.

    Hell, people have said this about A-Rod and he has TWO MVPs here!!

  19. #19
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    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    mental illness has quite heavy handed associations
    anxiety disorders are brutal. was your point to trivialize them?

  20. #20
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    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by apalradio View Post
    I was captivated by Joe Torre's charactertization of Unit in his book a few years ago. Basically described him as insecure, and hardly the intimidating monster he otherwise always appeared to be. In fact, Joe said something to the effect that he wished he had known how soft Johnson really was when they were playing against him all those years.
    That is why I think there is more to playing for the Yankees than other teams. Outwardly, you would never guess that RJ was going to be affected adversely, but when he saw a photo in the paper of the apartment building he lived in he went nuts. The media in Arizona wouldn't care where he lived. Torre even asked Moose to talk to him since he'd made the adjustment after a shaky start with the media.

    It shouldn't have an effect on your performance on the field, but I believe it does with some players. It depends on the person and how he chooses to handle it. You can't stop fans from booing or articles being written on why you're not hitting or a photo of you and your date being plastered all over the place - and the fact is that these things happen with a greater frequency in NY than other cities. I've heard both Torre and Girardi state that one of their main responsibilies is to take the heat off of their players by absorbing it as much as possible. They both realize just how important that is if you play for the Yankees.
    September 28, 2008 - the day the HOF got a wake-up Moose call.

  21. #21

    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    anxiety disorders are brutal. was your point to trivialize them?
    the heavyhanded implication i was talking about is more along the lines of "he's craaazy" etc. it's the stigma side of things
    always reasonable

  22. #22
    The gerbil lives Zimmers' Helmet's Avatar
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    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyTheJetRodriguez View Post

    The "can't handle New York" argument is and always has been silly and makes people seem ignorant.
    This is one of the most irresponsible comments I've ever read on these boards - congrats.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  23. #23

    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmers' Helmet View Post
    This is one of the most irresponsible comments I've ever read on these boards - congrats.
    Show me a tangible connection using absolutely anybody as an example at any time in the history of the Yankees. Usually people just throw it out there when a player has an off year, which of course, is silly and pointless.

  24. #24
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    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by Brien Jackson View Post
    Click through both links: Russell Carelton has a Ph.D. in psychology, and he's the one saying that it's nonsense.
    Well unless he's Greinke's psyciatrist I'm not sure how much weight that carries.

    Personally I agree that it is a bunch of non-sense that he can't pitch in New York because of his psycological makeup.

    I would think that his 11.3 ERA in YSII & III would be a bit more troubling than his anxiety disorder, even if it a small sample of just 5 starts.

    But both put both of them together along with earlier comments in his career that he didn't want to pitch in New York (I think he's backed away from them since) and I can understand the Yankees reluctance to thow a 5+ years $100M+ contract offer his way.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  25. #25
    The gerbil lives Zimmers' Helmet's Avatar
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    Re: Greinke, mental illness, and the Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyTheJetRodriguez View Post
    Show me a tangible connection using absolutely anybody as an example at any time in the history of the Yankees. Usually people just throw it out there when a player has an off year, which of course, is silly and pointless.
    A few of us already did, but you chose to blow it off, so I'm not going to bother repeating myself again...

    Research some of the names that were already mentioned, and you may be surprised to learn that in many cases, these players admitted as much themselves.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

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