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  1. #26

    Re: N.Y. land of whine, cheese

    Quote Originally Posted by ansky1128 View Post
    pretty much sums it up for me. Yankee Stadium simply isn't "special" anymore.
    I wonder, if in hindsight, the Yankees should have ditched the Yankee Stadium name, not tried to build a replica and designed a completely different looking park?

  2. #27
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    Re: N.Y. land of whine, cheese

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    When I go to The Stadium (and it's fairly often) I feel as though the game is the secondary show. All of the happenings behind the seating area are what a majority of the people go to see.
    And the self promotion is totally out of control.
    The Yankees admit as much:

    The Yankees, you see, were no longer a baseball team. As Randy Levine, the team’s president, told me in 2008: “The Yankees today are an entertainment company with a baseball team at its core.”

    It stands to reason, then, that consumers of this entertainment would be valued not so much for their loyalty as for their potential to generate revenue. In other words, they would be squeezed for every last dollar.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...es-empire.html

  3. #28

    Re: N.Y. land of whine, cheese

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
    The Yankees admit as much:

    It stands to reason, then, that consumers of this entertainment would be valued not so much for their loyalty as for their potential to generate revenue. In other words, they would be squeezed for every last dollar.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...es-empire.html
    This may sound cold, but there is really no incentive for a business to make their customers happy beyond what is necessary to motivate them to purchase the product. If you can charge more money, or provide less value (i.e. reduce cost), then that is precisely what a business should do. As customers, we can simply decide not to purchase the product. However, there is ample evidence right on this board that, despite our displeasure, we continue to pay, either through season tickets, SH tickets, or cable TV. We also agree to subject ourselves to countless advertisements, something which directly interferes without our enjoyment of the game - at the ballpark, on TV or on the radio. I suppose things could change in the future, but if the revenues are strong, there is really no reason for the Yankees to change anything right now.

  4. #29
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    Re: N.Y. land of whine, cheese

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
    The Yankees admit as much:

    The Yankees, you see, were no longer a baseball team. As Randy Levine, the team’s president, told me in 2008: “The Yankees today are an entertainment company with a baseball team at its core.”

    It stands to reason, then, that consumers of this entertainment would be valued not so much for their loyalty as for their potential to generate revenue. In other words, they would be squeezed for every last dollar.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...es-empire.html
    I think I also remember him saying something to the effect of (paraphrasing) "The new Stadium will be like a five star hotel with a baseball field" as the Stadium was still being built, and I remember thinking to myself as a nervous season ticketholder at the time getting the impression this was going to be a very very different ballpark experience and maybe not in a good way. Five star hotels tend to be not so cheap and rather opulent. They unfortunately hit their mark in a lot of ways.
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  5. #30
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    Re: N.Y. land of whine, cheese

    Quote Originally Posted by bl73 View Post
    This may sound cold, but there is really no incentive for a business to make their customers happy beyond what is necessary to motivate them to purchase the product. If you can charge more money, or provide less value (i.e. reduce cost), then that is precisely what a business should do. As customers, we can simply decide not to purchase the product. However, there is ample evidence right on this board that, despite our displeasure, we continue to pay, either through season tickets, SH tickets, or cable TV. We also agree to subject ourselves to countless advertisements, something which directly interferes without our enjoyment of the game - at the ballpark, on TV or on the radio. I suppose things could change in the future, but if the revenues are strong, there is really no reason for the Yankees to change anything right now.
    Based on lower attendence, including the playoffs, the tide may be turning. For me I will be dropping my Sat+ plan after 15 years.

    Plus lower YES ratings: ". . averaged a 3.92 rating, down 8.3% from 2011 and YES’ lowest Yankees household rating since 2003."

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...icle-1.1188360

    Quote Originally Posted by StingrayJG View Post
    I think I also remember him saying something to the effect of (paraphrasing) "The new Stadium will be like a five star hotel with a baseball field" as the Stadium was still being built, and I remember thinking to myself as a nervous season ticketholder at the time getting the impression this was going to be a very very different ballpark experience and maybe not in a good way. Five star hotels tend to be not so cheap and rather opulent. They unfortunately hit their mark in a lot of ways.
    He did say that and it was a clear indication of the new type of "fan" he was targeting.

  6. #31
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    Re: N.Y. land of whine, cheese

    And:

    Once the bottom line for Steinbrenner the Elder was winning it all, or else. For his heirs, it seems the bottom line is more about profit and loss, and that sure doesn’t mean the kind of loss the Yankees just suffered at the hands of the Tigers.

    . . .

    Everybody talks about the Yankees making more big changes. Maybe getting another big player or two. But in the end, and with as much money as they spend, they are mostly about big coin that keeps coming in. That’s the real difference between the way they are run now and the way they were run when the old man was still in charge. That’s the real bottom line with the modern Yankees.

    The people in charge say what they think George M. Steinbrenner would have wanted them to say. But with the old man, it was more than just talk.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...icle-1.1188539

  7. #32
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    Re: N.Y. land of whine, cheese

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    When I go to The Stadium (and it's fairly often) I feel as though the game is the secondary show. All of the happenings behind the seating area are what a majority of the people go to see.
    And the self promotion is totally out of control.

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  8. #33
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    Re: N.Y. land of whine, cheese

    Quote Originally Posted by bl73 View Post
    If you can charge more money, or provide less value (i.e. reduce cost), then that is precisely what a business should do.
    Strictly from a business perspective, this isn't the whole story. If charging more and providing less money alienates your core client base and keeps away the next generation, then that will be a short term strategy with long term consequences. A smart business will find that happy medium where they can charge a maximum price while still keeping the client happy and feeling he got sufficient value for his expense.

  9. #34

    Re: N.Y. land of whine, cheese

    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    Strictly from a business perspective, this isn't the whole story. If charging more and providing less money alienates your core client base and keeps away the next generation, then that will be a short term strategy with long term consequences. A smart business will find that happy medium where they can charge a maximum price while still keeping the client happy and feeling he got sufficient value for his expense.
    Can you tell this to the father and son combo across town that had 83 losses in '10, 85 losses in '11, and 88 losses in '12. They just actually raised prices ! Only a few more years to go before they catch their business model...the Chicago Cubs, who lost 101 games.

    Do Yankee fans realize how good they actually have it? Want to talk about the Yankee lineup back in April 1970 when I first sat in the real , non renovated bleachers in death valley. Or going to a game in '72 when the place was a ghost town and the Yankees did not even draw a million fans for the season? (966,328)

    geez, there are probably only two fan bases who wouldn't trade places right now (Giants, Tigers) and maybe the Cardinals.....I think people are spoiled, especially those who were born around the mid 1980's and grew up with the post 1994 franchise.

  10. #35
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    Re: N.Y. land of whine, cheese

    It boggles the mind that after more success than any other franchise in the history of sports, ownership would abandon the people who built it - your average, hard-working man/woman who probably come from a long line of diehard Yankee fans. While entertainment is definitely a part of going to a ballgame, it is not the bottom line for me. I don't go to a nice restaurant just so I can watch my team play on a big screen TV. I can do that at home - and I don't go to a ballgame to just to eat. When the product on the field is no longer "entertaining", I'm not going to be content to browse the stores and concessions stands. Here's a novel idea - put a swimming pool out behind center field! Oh wait, somebody already did that.

    If management thinks they can survive with an inferior product and fans who care more about an employee bringing them their order of nachos than the score, they are very sadly mistaken.
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  11. #36
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    Re: N.Y. land of whine, cheese

    Quote Originally Posted by 35Knucklecurve View Post
    It boggles the mind that after more success than any other franchise in the history of sports, ownership would abandon the people who built it - your average, hard-working man/woman who probably come from a long line of diehard Yankee fans. While entertainment is definitely a part of going to a ballgame, it is not the bottom line for me. I don't go to a nice restaurant just so I can watch my team play on a big screen TV. I can do that at home - and I don't go to a ballgame to just to eat. When the product on the field is no longer "entertaining", I'm not going to be content to browse the stores and concessions stands. Here's a novel idea - put a swimming pool out behind center field! Oh wait, somebody already did that.

    If management thinks they can survive with an inferior product and fans who care more about an employee bringing them their order of nachos than the score, they are very sadly mistaken.
    And as been discussed in the "Still fun to be a Yankee fan" thread, there is the overall fan/team relationship and experience (including watching on TV, getting Yankees Magazine, buying Yankees stuff), and the actual in-person Stadium experience. In the latter case, having a competitive team is part of the value, the other is how the fan is treated, and that includes high prices, overbearing security, constant advertisements, etc.

  12. #37

    Re: N.Y. land of whine, cheese

    The sons run the Yankees like a business. Not a Lupica fan but his column referenced in this thread is accurate. They say what the fans want to hear, that the mission is World Series or bust. When the doors are closed in the boardroom, they would rather profit with a consistent regular season team then lose money trying to build a huge advantage in the playoffs. Quite frankly, once the post season starts, YES is out of the picture. The money is made in the network, the title is nice but the mission is now profit. The way to do that is a team that is always in the running and they have that

    And the funny thing is...I get it. It is a business and if I owned the team I'd run it the same way. But as fans I think we have to realize that the new regime is not going out and cutting AROD, that soap opera will drive ratings next year.

  13. #38

    Re: N.Y. land of whine, cheese

    I believe that even the A-Rod contract was not an attempt to win the world series for 5 years straight. Yes, he helped win games, but he also helped to sell tickets, T-shirt, etc. Around this time, he was supposed to be on the path to the home-run record as well, which would have been profitable. Now it's tainted. Say what you will about Trump, but this was well put...

    http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/stor...w-york-yankees

  14. #39

    Re: N.Y. land of whine, cheese

    Quote Originally Posted by bl73 View Post
    I believe that even the A-Rod contract was not an attempt to win the world series for 5 years straight. Yes, he helped win games, but he also helped to sell tickets, T-shirt, etc. Around this time, he was supposed to be on the path to the home-run record as well, which would have been profitable. Now it's tainted. Say what you will about Trump, but this was well put...

    http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/stor...w-york-yankees

    They wanted rating for YES too. This has turned into such a soap opera they should recoup the contract by following him around, he is a walking soap opera

  15. #40
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    Re: N.Y. land of whine, cheese

    Quote Originally Posted by HerbieLee20 View Post
    DJust provide a comfortable seat in which they can play on their cell phones.
    This made me giggle.
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  16. #41
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    Re: N.Y. land of whine, cheese

    Quote Originally Posted by bl73 View Post
    I believe that even the A-Rod contract was not an attempt to win the world series for 5 years straight. Yes, he helped win games, but he also helped to sell tickets, T-shirt, etc. Around this time, he was supposed to be on the path to the home-run record as well, which would have been profitable. Now it's tainted. Say what you will about Trump, but this was well put...

    http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/stor...w-york-yankees
    I actually got to hear that interview on the radio by sheer luck and I found it to be an interesting point of view. I'm not sure what kind of precedent that would set or how the union would react to it, but it actually did make sense.

    I did find it funny when he told Jeter not to sell his apartment because it was lucky for him and then he got hurt right after. Well, not funny ha-ha, you know what I mean.
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  17. #42

    Re: N.Y. land of whine, cheese

    I don't live anywhere near New York and unfortunately was never able to attend a game at Old Yankee Stadium. But I've had the pleasure of visiting NYC the past four summers and have seen a game at the New Stadium each time. So I've seen a game in it all four years that it's been open. Thankfully the Old Stadium was still standing when I first went in 2009. The train went right by it and I am thankful that I can at least say I saw it.

    I think the New Stadium is a beautiful park and I've had a blast every time I've gone. But I'm a tourist, so the whole NYC experience is like visiting another world for me. Indianapolis doesn't exactly have anything like a subway ride from Midtown Manhattan to the Bronx. So I'm kind of "oohing and ahhing" during the entire experience and am very impressed with it. I love the streets around the Stadium and I absolutely love the open air drink deck with the pristine view of Manhattan. I loved the museum too.

    But again, I'm a tourist, so the whole New York City/Yankee Stadium experience is a big novelty for me. I can completely understand where fans who live in the New York area and have been going to games their entire lives at both stadiums would have a completely different outlook than me and miss the Old Stadium.

  18. #43
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    Re: N.Y. land of whine, cheese

    Quote Originally Posted by IndianaYankFan View Post
    But I'm a tourist, so the whole NYC experience is like visiting another world for me. Indianapolis doesn't exactly have anything like a subway ride from Midtown Manhattan to the Bronx. So I'm kind of "oohing and ahhing" during the entire experience and am very impressed with it.
    Yeah NYC is funny like that. People from the midwest or the south are foreigners that stick out like sore thumbs to us whereas people from places like Pakistan and Korea blend right in lol. My neighborhood is awesome like that, you'll walk one block and hear like 10 different languages including some legitimate fresh off the boat Irish and there's nothing unusual about it (sorry Johnny Rocker). But yeah, NYC is really a "what have you done for me lately" type of town.

  19. #44

    Re: N.Y. land of whine, cheese

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman23 View Post
    I actually got to hear that interview on the radio by sheer luck and I found it to be an interesting point of view. I'm not sure what kind of precedent that would set or how the union would react to it, but it actually did make sense.

    I did find it funny when he told Jeter not to sell his apartment because it was lucky for him and then he got hurt right after. Well, not funny ha-ha, you know what I mean.
    The Yankees would lose to the union, you cannot even void a contract of someone that gets caught, they just don't get paid during the suspension. AROD has not yet been caught officially and you can be sure that before his admission they must have got the Yankees to put in the contract no action would be attempted for him acknowledging what was just a report from a magazine

    Part of what the Yankees did this post season I believe is contract related. The Yankees cannot sit him just to avoid his HR bonus clauses, so now if the union fights a future benching the Yankees can point to this post season, and show it is due to lack of performance at the position, not an attempt to sabotage him reaching an incentive, which is illegal

  20. #45
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    Re: N.Y. land of whine, cheese

    Quote Originally Posted by fredgmuggs View Post
    When I saw the thread title with whine and cheese I just assumed montrealer was the originator of the thread.

    Meh, I stopped going to Yankee Stadium a long time ago. The Yankee stadium experience changed for me long before they moved across the street in the new ballpark. I imagine it's even worse there.
    The whole time when it was being constructed (I think in 2008), all I saw were cranes and stuff coming from some weird direction.

    When I finally went to a game last month (Sept 18th, I think (the rained out game)), I found it weird that coming off the D train and looking to my left, there was no stadium. But off in the yonder, there was the new Yankee Stadium.

    I don't know much about the new luxury boxes, since in the old Sections 37 & 39, I'd always hear the "Box seats suck" chant. That and an "interesting" variation of the "YMCA" song during the 7th Inning Stretch (I have no idea how that one passed under the radar gun all those years).

    So Section 203 is the old Section 39. Doesn't sound the same with the extra digit.
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  21. #46

    Re: N.Y. land of whine, cheese

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Yankee View Post
    The whole time when it was being constructed (I think in 2008), all I saw were cranes and stuff coming from some weird direction.

    When I finally went to a game last month (Sept 18th, I think (the rained out game)), I found it weird that coming off the D train and looking to my left, there was no stadium. But off in the yonder, there was the new Yankee Stadium.

    I don't know much about the new luxury boxes, since in the old Sections 37 & 39, I'd always hear the "Box seats suck" chant. That and an "interesting" variation of the "YMCA" song during the 7th Inning Stretch (I have no idea how that one passed under the radar gun all those years).

    So Section 203 is the old Section 39. Doesn't sound the same with the extra digit.
    I was going home from the city a couple of years ago and decided to drive by the new stadium. I recall someone saying from the outside it reminded them of a Soviet era olympic stadium. That's exactly what I thought.
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  22. #47
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    Re: N.Y. land of whine, cheese

    Never went to Babe's house but did attend the Yankees/Cubs preseason at the new place. Beautiful but crappy overpriced beer and cold hot dobs and had to pay for a storage locker for my knapsack. I had good seat about 15 rows behind the yanks dugout.........point is I guess it's " been there....done it........$20.00-locker,$80.00 ticket,$30.00 for concession,$77.00 beer and a couple of c-notes for souvenir s...........where I sat would be big bucks for season games.........had a wonderful time with the folks around me including four Sox fans..........Montreal I would pay $2.00 and bring a 12 pack with assorted tobacco products..........

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  23. #48

    Re: N.Y. land of whine, cheese

    Quote Originally Posted by montrealer View Post
    Never went to Babe's house but did attend the Yankees/Cubs preseason at the new place. Beautiful but crappy overpriced beer and cold hot dobs and had to pay for a storage locker for my knapsack. I had good seat about 15 rows behind the yanks dugout.........point is I guess it's " been there....done it........$20.00-locker,$80.00 ticket,$30.00 for concession,$77.00 beer and a couple of c-notes for souvenir s...........where I sat would be big bucks for season games.........had a wonderful time with the folks around me including four Sox fans..........Montreal I would pay $2.00 and bring a 12 pack with assorted tobacco products..........
    Maybe that is why the Expos play in DC nowadays?

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