Should we give Cano a 10 year deal?

[longtimeyankeefan]

The market value for 2B is not 10 years $200M.

And what do you think Scott Boras and Robinson Cano will be asking when he hits free agency?

Cano fired his old agents and replaced them with Boras for a reason - to get maximum length and dollars on his contract.

He is going to make $15M in the final year of his contract. Assuming he has another year like he has had, the bidding starts at $20+ million per year.

The question comes down to length - will anyone give him ten years? It would not surprise me, but I want no part of it myself.

Personally, I would sign NO contract whatsoever longer than five years except in cases where the player is young and I am buying out his arbitration years and maybe a couple of years of free agency. By the time someone reaches free agency, they are likely in their late 20s/early 30s and, if you are lucky, they are in the middle of their prime years, not the beginning of their prime years.

Remember, unlike football, these contracts are GUARANTEED. You are stuck with the contact if, or more likely when, the individual goes into decline.

[LongtimeNYYFan]

IMO, no team will give him 10 years. The Yankees don't need a 40 year oold infielder. He's got $15M coming in 2013. Then trade him for some blue chips.

[ThePinStripes]

Someone on another board told me that GWB had some minority interest in the Texas Rangers (2% ownership, I think it was said). I also heard that's how he got his connection to the State of Texas. Then "Dubya" sold the team, with him as a MAJORITY owner, and getting a majority share of the sale price.

His father must've forced someone's hand.

Being a billionaire son of a former United States President might get you some political connections. But yeah, it was probably a minority interest in a crappy baseball team.

[Allan]

8 year 160m with some incentives sounds about right.

I could live with 180/10 too with incentives to get it to 200/10

There is just no reason for Cano to get less than 20 a year or at least 7 years. So I think this is pretty much what our choices are.

If the Yankees are serious about $189 M payroll in 2014, and I think they are, then I'm not sure they will be offering $20 M/ yr. They are already committed to $78.5 M for ARod, Tex, CC and Jeter. If you add another $20 M for Cano then that totals $98.5 for just 5 players leaving ~ $90 M for the remainder of the roster. The largesse of yesteryear is going to haunt them in a big way going forward, or so it seems.

[TheInfallibleOne]

Im not a fan of Cano saying he signed a team friendly deal already. He signed that deal when he was young and still a risk of fizzling out. He banked a hefty sum and its not like he was severely underpaid the last few years.

If he insists on a megadeal then we should be getting a lot more out of it than a few quality years before he declines. How about not giving a full NTC for more than the first 3 years. If he thinks this is going to be Robbie's Christmas Payday and that the Yanks are going to bend over, then trade him now. I'd rather see him play great for a rival than overpay in money, years and flexibility and be paralyzed later.

Offer the Barry Zito deal (7 / 126) + 1mm for Silver Slugger + 1mm for Gold Glove every year without a NTC and add 2 club option years at 15 million. Robbie Cano is not a 22+mm player outside of NY

[kan_t]

And what do you think Scott Boras and Robinson Cano will be asking when he hits free agency?

They may ask for 10 years $200M, it doesn't mean that they will get it. Boras has asked for lots of things.

I think the Yankees will sign him for 7 years $140M to 8 years $160M.

[ieddyi]

Im not a fan of Cano saying he signed a team friendly deal already. He signed that deal when he was young and still a risk of fizzling out. He banked a hefty sum and its not like he was severely underpaid the last few years.

If he insists on a megadeal then we should be getting a lot more out of it than a few quality years before he declines. How about not giving a full NTC for more than the first 3 years. If he thinks this is going to be Robbie's Christmas Payday and that the Yanks are going to bend over, then trade him now. I'd rather see him play great for a rival than overpay in money, years and flexibility and be paralyzed later.

Offer the Barry Zito deal (7 / 126) + 1mm for Silver Slugger + 1mm for Gold Glove every year without a NTC and add 2 club option years at 15 million. Robbie Cano is not a 22+mm player outside of

He's right- that deal was a steal for the Yanks- I think pretty much everyone felt that way after it was signed

That said, that deal has nothing to do with negotiations on the next one.

THE whole $189M salary cap raises the question of whether it's a one time deal for 2014 or the new de facto cap from then on. According to my understanding, once they reap the benefits of being under $189M for 2014, they can then go back to spending way over w/o much repercussion. If it's a one time deal to reap large $$$ in 2014 and they go back to the old MO of using their $$$ to ensure a perennial playoff contender, I thin fans will be OK w/ that. If they continue the "austerity" measures past that point, they're playing with fire. If the team lets Cano go to a higher ( reasonable ) bidder fans will rightly question the priorities of Hal. The new TV deal will net them another $25M/year. They won't be able to spend on the draft or Intl. FA's, so short of having a farm system that actually produces they're gonna have to continue spending

[longtimeyankeefan]

They may ask for 10 years $200M, it doesn't mean that they will get it. Boras has asked for lots of things.

I think the Yankees will sign him for 7 years $140M to 8 years $160M.

I don't - I think that another team will offer him a similar length contract with an AAV of $22 - 24M, something I want no part of.

[TheInfallibleOne]

He's right- that deal was a steal for the Yanks- I think pretty much everyone felt that way after it was signed

That said, that deal has nothing to do with negotiations on the next one.

THE whole $189M salary cap raises the question of whether it's a one time deal for 2014 or the new de facto cap from then on. According to my understanding, once they reap the benefits of being under $189M for 2014, they can then go back to spending way over w/o much repercussion. If it's a one time deal to reap large $$$ in 2014 and they go back to the old MO of using their $$$ to ensure a perennial playoff contender, I thin fans will be OK w/ that. If they continue the "austerity" measures past that point, they're playing with fire. If the team lets Cano go to a higher ( reasonable ) bidder fans will rightly question the priorities of Hal. The new TV deal will net them another $25M/year. They won't be able to spend on the draft or Intl. FA's, so short of having a farm system that actually produces they're gonna have to continue spending

I call BS. He signed the deal February 2008 and promptly put up an OPS+ of 86. That was the year before his first season of arbitration eligibility. He could have been assigned league minimum, but he made 3 million.

He had a very good year in 2009, for which his salary doubled to 6 million. (For first year arbitration thats pretty good, is he upset that he wasn't getting free agent market rate for that?).

2010 he improves by a lot and his salary went up to 9 million. By free agent standards, underpaid, but he wasn't a free agent. That would have been his second arbitration year. Clearly the Yankees caught a break in 2010 as far as paying for performance.

2011 he has a good year, but not as good as 2010. He gets a 1 million dollar raise for his 2011 season. Third year arbitration probably would have gotten him some more money,. so we caught a break.

2012 was statistically as good as you can get from him. He got a 4 million dollar raise for 2012. It's not what you would pay for a free agent. Its certainly team friendly, but wasn't that the trade off of having the guaranteed cash back in 2008?

So to recap this contract, we overpaid the first year, got approximate value the second year, got a bargain for the next 3 years.

How many MVP's has Robbie won that he deserves a 10 year contract?
Albert Pujols won 3 and finished 2nd another 3 times.
Alex Rodriguez was regarded as the best player in the game when he suckered Tom Hicks into giving him 10 years. He had the potential to finish as the best hitter to ever play the game when he suckered Hank.
Albert and Alex have another thing in common. Their work ethic is phenomenal.

Robbie has none of these things. 10 year contract - DENIED. Let him walk.

[Zimmers' Helmet]

I call BS. He signed the deal February 2008 and promptly put up an OPS+ of 86. That was the year before his first season of arbitration eligibility. He could have been assigned league minimum, but he made 3 million.

He had a very good year in 2009, for which his salary doubled to 6 million. (For first year arbitration thats pretty good, is he upset that he wasn't getting free agent market rate for that?).

2010 he improves by a lot and his salary went up to 9 million. By free agent standards, underpaid, but he wasn't a free agent. That would have been his second arbitration year. Clearly the Yankees caught a break in 2010 as far as paying for performance.

2011 he has a good year, but not as good as 2010. He gets a 1 million dollar raise for his 2011 season. Third year arbitration probably would have gotten him some more money,. so we caught a break.

2012 was statistically as good as you can get from him. He got a 4 million dollar raise for 2012. It's not what you would pay for a free agent. Its certainly team friendly, but wasn't that the trade off of having the guaranteed cash back in 2008?

So to recap this contract, we overpaid the first year, got approximate value the second year, got a bargain for the next 3 years.

How many MVP's has Robbie won that he deserves a 10 year contract?
Albert Pujols won 3 and finished 2nd another 3 times.
Alex Rodriguez was regarded as the best player in the game when he suckered Tom Hicks into giving him 10 years. He had the potential to finish as the best hitter to ever play the game when he suckered Hank.
Albert and Alex have another thing in common. Their work ethic is phenomenal.

Robbie has none of these things. 10 year contract - DENIED. Let him walk.

Just my opinion, but I think you're being a tad harsh here - Robbie has provided excellent value during the course of his present contract.

Ask yourself this: How much would Robbie's post-2008 production be worth on the open market? Additionally, what will it cost to replace that type of production in an aging lineup once you let him walk?

I've got no problem with giving him the money he'll be seeking, as long as it's not beyond 7 years.

[TheInfallibleOne]

Just my opinion, but I think you're being a tad harsh here - Robbie has provided excellent value during the course of his present contract.

Ask yourself this: How much would Robbie's post-2008 production be worth on the open market? Additionally, what will it cost to replace that type of production in an aging lineup once you let him walk?

I've got no problem with giving him the money he'll be seeking, as long as it's not beyond 7 years.

I don't mean to be harsh, but what business does this guy have to ask for a 10 year deal. He's not mashing 40 homers or driving in 130 (ever). Even in the high scoring Yankee offense he's hitting 30 HR and has only driven in that magical 100+ twice in a career that spans 8 years.

I don't think he's a 20 million (guaranteed) per year man. I don't think he's worth more than 5 or 6 years at 18 million a year with a club option for a 6th or 7th year. I'd give incentives for Silver Glugger, Gold Glove, All Star and Top 3 MVP though.

[Zimmers' Helmet]

I don't mean to be harsh, but what business does this guy have to ask for a 10 year deal. He's not mashing 40 homers or driving in 130 (ever). Even in the high scoring Yankee offense he's hitting 30 HR and has only driven in that magical 100+ twice in a career that spans 8 years.

I don't think he's a 20 million (guaranteed) per year man. I don't think he's worth more than 5 or 6 years at 18 million a year with a club option for a 6th or 7th year. I'd give incentives for Silver Glugger, Gold Glove, All Star and Top 3 MVP though.

Can't blame him for aiming high, that's typical Scott Boras negotiating which I take with a grain of salt - at age 30, it's doubtful anyone will offer 10 years; especially for a middle infielder whose defensive skills are likely to deteriorate faster than a 1st baseman.

If Robbie/Boras are willing to settle for 7 years, maybe with a team option for an 8th year, then they need to find a way to lock him up. If they're not willing to back down from 10 years, then I'd agree - let him walk.

[mhmajp]

I don't mean to be harsh, but what business does this guy have to ask for a 10 year deal. He's not mashing 40 homers or driving in 130 (ever). Even in the high scoring Yankee offense he's hitting 30 HR and has only driven in that magical 100+ twice in a career that spans 8 years.

I don't think he's a 20 million (guaranteed) per year man. I don't think he's worth more than 5 or 6 years at 18 million a year with a club option for a 6th or 7th year. I'd give incentives for Silver Glugger, Gold Glove, All Star and Top 3 MVP though.

Part of his value is positional scarcity. How many 25 to 35 HR per year 2B are there?

[35Knucklecurve]

Can't blame him for aiming high, that's typical Scott Boras negotiating which I take with a grain of salt - at age 30, it's doubtful anyone will offer 10 years; especially for a middle infielder whose defensive skills are likely to deteriorate faster than a 1st baseman.

If Robbie/Boras are willing to settle for 7 years, maybe with a team option for an 8th year, then they need to find a way to lock him up. If they're not willing to back down from 10 years, then I'd agree - let him walk.

Sounds like a plan to me. I think Boras asks for the sun, moon and stars knowing that the bar will come down to just the sun....or the moon and the stars, but not all three. If you ask for just the moon, that's all you'll get.

[snapple]

Robbie has none of these things. 10 year contract - DENIED. Let him walk.

What the hell did I just read?

[ThePinStripes]

Albert and Alex have another thing in common. Their work ethic is phenomenal.

Robbie has none of these things. 10 year contract - DENIED. Let him walk.

Interesting unsubstantiated position there.

[TheInfallibleOne]

Interesting unsubstantiated position there.

How is it unsubstantiated?

Has Cano won an MVP?
Has he been widely regarded as the best player in a generation?
Has he been a leader on the Yankees?
Has he shown a willingness to work harder than everyone else?
Has he snuffed out that lackadaisical attitude in the field and on the basepaths?

So why should he even consider asking for 10 years? Even with Boras as his agent, they both know his career will never hold a candle to that of Alex or Albert.

[snapple]

Has Cano won an MVP?

Didn't know that players were measured by their MVPs

Has he been widely regarded as the best player in a generation?

....he's getting there

Has he been a leader on the Yankees?

It's hard to be a leader when you have guys like CC, Jeter and A-Rod on the team. Can't have too many chiefs...

Has he shown a willingness to work harder than everyone else?

that's all he does.

Has he snuffed out that lackadaisical attitude in the field and on the basepaths?

Where is an eyerolling gif?

So why should he even consider asking for 10 years? Even with Boras as his agent, they both know his career will never hold a candle to that of Alex or Albert.

Because he's legit.

[TheInfallibleOne]

Didn't know that players were measured by their MVPs


....he's getting there

Guys with decade long contracts should come closer than Robbie ever will.

It's hard to be a leader when you have guys like CC, Jeter and A-Rod on the team. Can't have too many chiefs...

Oh I'm sorry, is that the issue? Its hard. Well I guess as long as its too hard, ya don't have to do it. Yay! Decade long contracts for anyone who tried!

that's all he does.

Where is an eyerolling gif?

When? When was the last time you saw him hustle out a hit or make a heads up play and take an extra base. Just because his glove is smooth doesn't mean he's pushing himself. There's way more in the tank than he's using.

Because he's legit.

He is legit. He's not 10 year legit, but he's pretty great for now. Personally, I don't want to be the team stuck with him when he realizes he's never playing for another contract and can start slacking off.

[snapple]

I am very happy you're not in the front office.

[Philip Hughes Fan]

Ten year deals for anyone in their 30s is insane, but I doubt anyone on this board has any idea whether or not Robbie is a clubhouse leader, or whether it makes even a tiny difference in the Yankees' record.

[False1]

I agree with Infallible that he should not get a 10 year deal, but primarily because I don't think any player should get 10 years short of like a Trout situation where you're getting all the players's prime years and potentially a lower AAV since the player gets more guaranteed dollars earlier in their career. As we as fans are seeing, and other teams will see, 10 years of guaranteed dollars of that scale is just foolish. The injury risk alone, plus the risk of decline, just makes these deals imbalanced far too much in favor of the player.

What is interesting is this "more in the tank" meme with Cano. Even if that we're proven to be true, so be it. He will and should get paid for what he gets from the tank, not some fan's idea of how much he leaves in it.

He is an elite talent. As much as I hate to say it because this is simply less insane, I'm hoping they get him for circa 7/$150MM. I'd be willing to roll the dice that he continues to improve and that more than half that contract results in elite production, crossing the fingers that his decline is late and somewhat slow.

[hardrain]

The most probable scenario is that Cano has already hit his peak and is going to start a slow, painful decline.

[ElDandy]

Ten year deals for anyone in their 30s is insane, but I doubt anyone on this board has any idea whether or not Robbie is a clubhouse leader, or whether it makes even a tiny difference in the Yankees' record.

Agreed. 10 year deals should be avoided in general nor would I give one to Cano but whether or not Cano is a "leader" or whether he runs hard to 1st base every time out has no bearing on it.

[THEBOSS84]

Unless the Yanks expanding their payroll back over $200M after 2014, they have to let him walk.