Should we give Cano a 10 year deal?

[snapple]

Yeah, but Arod had Bush running the Rangers. No one except the average America voter would stupid enough to let him run anything but lemonade stand after what he did at the Rangers.

I'll take misinformed poster for $2000, Alex.

[2PhonesMaccabee]

Yeah, but Arod had Bush running the Rangers. No one except the average America voter would stupid enough to let him run anything but lemonade stand after what he did at the Rangers.

Bush sold the Rangers in the Mid 90s, ARod signed before the 2001 season.

[GordonGecko]

Jon Heyman was on Francesa's show today. Jon doesn't believe the Yankees will able to re-sign Cano this winter. The Yankees don't want another AROD type contract. Jon is close with Boras. Cano is going to free agency.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/audio-on...e-francesa-1/#

this is really hard to believe.

besides, who are the other possible buyers?

It's not hard to believe. There are no other possible buyers because Cano is signed for the Yankees through 2013

[ThePinStripes]

I'll take misinformed poster for $2000, Alex.

Looks like you're right- sold in 98 to Hicks (who isn't much different than Bush).

I just wanted to use that voter line

[awy]

it's ok i lol'd

[gold23]

Weaver and Braun may have left money on the table, but with that decision they bought the assurance of super-wealth. Let's not underestimate the appeal of getting something done a year early in this sport with guaranteed contracts. If Weaver had a shoulder injury in his FA year, he certainly is worth less as a FA and perhaps not even in the game any longer. In Braun's case, the steroid stigma might have hurt him.

"Guaranteed now" isn't always a stupid call when the stakes are this high, even if things ultimately look questionable in hindsight.

Lincecum is a perfect example of this. Turned down a $100 million offer, and is now coming off a season where his velocity was down and his numbers were historically bad for a SF pitcher. Even with a complete rebound (which is a pipe dream at best) next year, he has created substantial risk for his next contract and won't sniff the figures he turned down.

I agree. While many of these players are leaving significant $ on the table by signing early, there is a BIG advantage to doing so. Rather than risk never getting a big payday, they ensure they will be amazingly wealthy for the rest of their lives. The risk/reward quotient is actually heavily in favor of locking up at a slightly decreased rate.

The problem with Boras on the player side (and some realize it while most of his clients do not) is that he is playing the numbers game. If he has 20 players and takes them all to FA, the fact that 3 or 4 will get hurt and not get their big pay day is more than offset by the additional $ his other players make on the free market. He has the aggregate financial interests of his clients in mind, not the individual. Additionally, and this is oft overlooked- he cautions them against market bias. Let's say I was making $1 million in NYC and was offered the same job/role at an office in Milwaukee for $1.2 million. I wouldn't take it. Yes, the cost of living is much less and the salary is a 20% increase. But I would be doing just fine in a locale I was comfortable in.

[Tifoso]

Lincecum is a perfect example of this. Turned down a $100 million offer, and is now coming off a season where his velocity was down and his numbers were historically bad for a SF pitcher. Even with a complete rebound (which is a pipe dream at best) next year, he has created substantial risk for his next contract and won't sniff the figures he turned down.

I agree. While many of these players are leaving significant $ on the table by signing early, there is a BIG advantage to doing so. Rather than risk never getting a big payday, they ensure they will be amazingly wealthy for the rest of their lives. The risk/reward quotient is actually heavily in favor of locking up at a slightly decreased rate.

The problem with Boras on the player side (and some realize it while most of his clients do not) is that he is playing the numbers game. If he has 20 players and takes them all to FA, the fact that 3 or 4 will get hurt and not get their big pay day is more than offset by the additional $ his other players make on the free market. He has the aggregate financial interests of his clients in mind, not the individual. Additionally, and this is oft overlooked- he cautions them against market bias. Let's say I was making $1 million in NYC and was offered the same job/role at an office in Milwaukee for $1.2 million. I wouldn't take it. Yes, the cost of living is much less and the salary is a 20% increase. But I would be doing just fine in a locale I was comfortable in.

I had never considered this. So the players ("the 3 or 4") get shafted, but Boras gets his pay day. I can't stand the guy.

[Brien Jackson]

I had never considered this. So the players ("the 3 or 4") get shafted, but Boras gets his pay day. I can't stand the guy.

No, that's silly. Putting aside the fact that we have no idea what Boras tells his clients in confidence, the most we could reasonably say is that Boras advises them that the way to maximize their earning potential is to get to free agency ASAP. This is an obvious truth. It's also obvious that taking a big deal that's on the table is a safer bet than waiting, but also provides less potential earnings. The players have to make that trade off, and at least one high profile Boras client (Weaver), took the offer made. That most Boras clients don't do that, and that the players are free to choose the agent that they want, and aren't bound to be represented by Boras, mostly suggests that the players who choose to be represented by Boras are players who want to maximize the amount of money they get paid.

[awy]

based on not so ancient decisions made by the yankees, it may be that getting an extension from teh yankees is even better than going to the market. (the yankee style extensions, u know what im talking about)

however, the 189m cap situation is a game changer.

[gold23]

No, that's silly. Putting aside the fact that we have no idea what Boras tells his clients in confidence, the most we could reasonably say is that Boras advises them that the way to maximize their earning potential is to get to free agency ASAP. This is an obvious truth. It's also obvious that taking a big deal that's on the table is a safer bet than waiting, but also provides less potential earnings. The players have to make that trade off, and at least one high profile Boras client (Weaver), took the offer made. That most Boras clients don't do that, and that the players are free to choose the agent that they want, and aren't bound to be represented by Boras, mostly suggests that the players who choose to be represented by Boras are players who want to maximize the amount of money they get paid.

This is true to an extent. It is widely reported that Boras tells clients up front that his goal will be to take them to FA and that if they wish to re-sign prior to that they should look elsewhere. That being the case, most of the VERY few high profile Boras clients that sign prior to their FA years are Boras clients from the beginning.

However, here's the problem with this. Boras has the goal to take EVERY player to FA, and it's often no in the best interest of certain players. But he doesn't look at it that way. The only time a Boras client signs early is when they clearly disregard his advice. I would bet most clubs would make very reasonable, long term offers to his clients a year or two shy of FA. For position players, while there is risk in terms of performance, they generally are better served to play out and take the huge pay day. But with pitchers? The difference between $15 and $20 million is certainly not worth the very real risk of having $75-100 million turn into a $10 million/2 yr deal, which is the type of deal Lincecum would be looking at if he repeats his 2012 season next year. So yes, while the players are not blind to his tactics, and in the aggregate he makes more money for his players than he would using any other tactics, it is impossible to say he has the individual player's greatest interest in mind. I'm not saying he doesn't lay out the risks. I'm sure he does. But he also instructs them not to sign with him if they don't want to test the limits of their earning capabilities. For pitchers, it's not the most prudent thing to do even though it often is the most rewarding.

This all being said, I think Boras is wonderful at his job. I just wouldn't want my son signing with him, since the difference between $90 million and $120 million in short term earnings is not worth the difference between $10 million and $90 million.

[longtimeyankeefan]

this is really hard to believe.


besides, who are the other possible buyers?

Probably somewhere around 20 other MLB teams - I leave a few out, like the Royals, but almost everyone is interested in talking to Cano.

Edit: maybe not for a ten year deal, though.

[TheScooter]

David Wright is looking for a new deal

In canvassing the officials, the terms that came up most often was about seven years at $127 million. Wright’s buddy, Washington’s Ryan Zimmerman, received a six-year, $100 million extension last spring that when combined with the two remaining seasons left on his old contract was worth $126 million over eight seasons. Thus, Wright would top Zimmerman both in total worth of contract and also average annual value, which would make him second ever among third basemen in both categories to the 10-year, $275 million extension Rodriguez signed with the Yankees.

Also, Wright is due $16 million on a 2013 option. The Mets have until five days after the World Series to trigger that option. If they can finalize the extension before then and add the option, under this scenario, Wright’s total future package would be worth $143 million over eight seasons.

“This would be a pretty good deal for both parties,” another NL executive said of the suggested deal. “He is still a very good player and when you look at his age [30 in December] and position, there is a little less risk than most guys entering their 30s.”

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/...Jr5er8HTByQp5K

Slightly less than $18M AAV. Look at Wright and Cano. Wright plays 81 games in Citi Field.
Cano hits a fly ball and its a HR. 22 of the 33 HRs were hit in the Bronx.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...&year=2012&t=b

[Jersey Yankee]

I'd say a 5-year deal with options for the final 2 years (or 7 yrs max outright).

Albert Pujols took about 5 years in his last deal, and I think that's the most any sane person can require.

[Jersey Yankee]

Bush sold the Rangers in the Mid 90s, ARod signed before the 2001 season.

Someone on another board told me that GWB had some minority interest in the Texas Rangers (2% ownership, I think it was said). I also heard that's how he got his connection to the State of Texas. Then "Dubya" sold the team, with him as a MAJORITY owner, and getting a majority share of the sale price.

His father must've forced someone's hand.

[TheScooter]

Sherman wrote about Cano today

You can guarantee Boras will say that a superb two-way middle infielder such as Cano should be paid more than first basemen such as Prince Fielder (nine years, $214 million) and Joey Votto (10 years, $225 million).

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yanke...7SI9YNCL9pfM/0

Goodbye. Cano will be 40 years old at the conclusion of a 10 year deal.

[awy]

i dunno. big contracts tend to be made concurrently with expansionary business moves by teams. whether it is a new stadium, new network deals etc.

i don't know if any team out there has those things lined up. if not, then the top line big contract won't be that big.

[sweet_lou_14]

i don't know if any team out there has those things lined up.

The Dodgers?

[awy]

they are like, 250m payroll already

[sweet_lou_14]

they are like, 250m payroll already

I thought their limit was, like, infinity.

[longtimeyankeefan]

The more I think about it, the more inclined I am to hope that Cashman trades Cano for prospects and lets Corbin Joseph take over 2B next year.

Cano (and Boras) are likely going to be looking for an ARod type contract - by that, I mean 10 years and beaucoup bucks - maybe not $275M, but definitely to the north of $225M, IMO.

I want nothing to do with a LT deal - Cano will be 31 at the beginning of the 2014 season. While we might get good years in the first three or four years of the contract, the last five to six years scare the out of me.

Joseph may not be the biggest prospect in our system, but his numbers at Trenton and SWB last season are very encouraging - .276/375/465/840 with 15 HR and 62 RBI. He would not be a middle of the order bat, but he could certainly be productive.

Trading Cano gives the Yankees another $10M AAV to work with in 2013 and would basically free up his likely $22M-$25M AAV in 2014.

Just my ₵ ₵

[awy]

you want who to play 2b?

[Blazer]

The more I think about it, the more inclined I am to hope that Cashman trades Cano for prospects and lets Corbin Joseph take over 2B next year.

Cano (and Boras) are likely going to be looking for an ARod type contract - by that, I mean 10 years and beaucoup bucks - maybe not $275M, but definitely to the north of $225M, IMO.

I want nothing to do with a LT deal - Cano will be 31 at the beginning of the 2014 season. While we might get good years in the first three or four years of the contract, the last five to six years scare the out of me.

Joseph may not be the biggest prospect in our system, but his numbers at Trenton and SWB last season are very encouraging - .276/375/465/840 with 15 HR and 62 RBI. He would not be a middle of the order bat, but he could certainly be productive.

Trading Cano gives the Yankees another $10M AAV to work with in 2013 and would basically free up his likely $22M-$25M AAV in 2014.

Just my ₵ ₵

I agree with this thought 100%. Get some solid prospects and don't over pay for Cano. As much as I like his bat, I suspect a $200m contract will not be conducive to him hitting any better. Especially with RISP.

[pleasepassthesoup]

you want who to play 2b?

That Scutaro guy is really gritty and, if October has taught us anything, we need grit, not the ability to play baseball.

[kan_t]

The market value for 2B is not 10 years $200M.

[awy]

to qualify that, until someone pays 10 years and 200m.