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  1. #5001

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark19 View Post
    You may not think very highly of the three names I've offered but you have to have noticed a trend over these past four months. The team has made a conscious decision to bring in older veterans on short deals rather than trade for players who could provide cost-effective production beyond 2014.

    Perhaps they believe that Austin, Williams, and Sanchez will be ready to anchor the lineup in 12-24 months. I just don't agree with the lukewarm attempt at a contender that has been assembled thus far. Honestly, what was the logic of committing $50 million on Kuroda, Youkilis, Ichiro, and Andy if they weren't going to sign a catcher or round out the outfield?

    I suppose we won't really know what the plan was until Opening Day. Until then, I don't love the report card.
    You want to trade for a young cost-controlled 3B, when Arod is signed for the next 5 years?

    You want to trade for a young cost-controlled DH with an aging roster, with an increasing need to leave the DH spot open?

    Who's going to trade a young cost-controlled catcher significantly better than Romine going forward ... and if there is one, what would he cost? The farm, plus another farm?

    Its not a stupid trend ... its smart to fill the temporary 3B hole and DH spots with 1-year veterans. I'd like to see the Yankees trade for a young cost-controlled RH OF, and they still might. In fact, its what I think Cashman is looking to do.
    “Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier, the cigars taste better. The trees are greener.”—Billy Martin

  2. #5002
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    as upsetting as this past winter was in terms of non-moves (martin, upton, morse), i'm willing to put it all behind me and proceed with the season if they would even make a marginal attempt to upgrade at C... so far, they've shown little to no desire to do so, which pisses me off more than anything else
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  3. #5003
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by flymick24 View Post
    as upsetting as this past winter was in terms of non-moves (martin, upton, morse), i'm willing to put it all behind me and proceed with the season if they would even make a marginal attempt to upgrade at C... so far, they've shown little to no desire to do so, which pisses me off more than anything else
    Agreed. For whatever reason they seem content with a black hole at catcher this season.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  4. #5004

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    The 2012 catching situation was a blackhole as well. Why are people getting so upset now?

  5. #5005

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax Teller View Post
    The 2012 catching situation was a blackhole as well. Why are people getting so upset now?
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  6. #5006

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax Teller View Post
    The 2012 catching situation was a blackhole as well. Why are people getting so upset now?
    Despite hearing nothing but the opposite all last year, apparently now some people think HRs are the only thing that matters because offensively Martin brings nothing else to the table.
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  7. #5007
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    as opposed to cervelli and stewart, who both bring nothing to the table offensively?

    they are both well below replacement level players, and lest we forget the last time we had a similar situation at C in 2008, when they missed the playoffs... granted, correlation does not equal causation, but it's not a huge leap to say that they'll be missing martin's HR's soon enough
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  8. #5008
    Sunny days ahead YankeePride1967's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Martin (a player many on this site couldn't wait to run out of town last season) is not worth the contract he got from Pittsburgh and I am glad the Yanks seem to be moving away from signing a player just because he is the lesser of two evils. We didn't get offense from the position in 2012 either. Do I wish we had a better offensive catcher than we do? Of course but the days of "want any player, sign any player" are over.

  9. #5009
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by flymick24 View Post
    the yankees clearly valued abe almonte differently than we do
    Almonte is ranked 8th of 10 among Yankees outfield prospects. Kelley will give Aardsma and Rapada a run for their money in ST.

  10. #5010

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Martin batted .242 with .777 OPS and 13 HRs after all star break. The .193 BABIP induced .179BA of the first half was just too deep to get out of.

    Russell Martin is a very good bet to rebound and will most likely earn his contract.

  11. #5011
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by LongtimeNYYFan View Post
    Almonte is ranked 8th of 10 among Yankees outfield prospects. Kelley will give Aardsma and Rapada a run for their money in ST.
    So, basically, the trade was terrible. We traded a legit prospect for a mediocre relief pitcher.

  12. #5012

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    RE: the 2013 CF situation. Obviously, Gardner should be playing CF. However, and this all hypothetical, if the Yankees are possibly looking to trade Grandy, he would have a higher value as a CF, no? As such, is it plausible that the Yankees may give him the opportunity to show improvement with his CF defense, rather than just move him to LF and say "he's no longer a capable major league CF'er"?

    Just a thought.

  13. #5013

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by d32123 View Post
    So, basically, the trade was terrible. We traded a legit prospect for a mediocre relief pitcher.
    No, a guy who is 8th or worse out of all outfield prospects in the Yankees system is a nobody.
    Almonte isn't on any top 30, wasn't taken in the Rule 5, isn't on the 40 man, and would need to go on the 40 man next offseason or be lost to minor league free agency. He would take up an outfield slot that the Yankees need for Garcia, Slade, Austin, Flores, Mesa, Almonte, Neal, etc.

    They got a major league reliever for a guy that will probably be a minor league free agent next year. Almonte is a tool box who had a decent season in AA at age 23. The Yankees have decided to go with Zoilo & Mesa over him.

  14. #5014

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    Martin batted .242 with .777 OPS and 13 HRs after all star break. The .193 BABIP induced .179BA of the first half was just too deep to get out of.

    Russell Martin is a very good bet to rebound and will most likely earn his contract.
    That stat was like a punch to the stomach. I fully agree with those that think his contract would have been a better value than Ichiro's deal.

  15. #5015
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by d32123 View Post
    So, basically, the trade was terrible. We traded a legit prospect for a mediocre relief pitcher.
    I guess if you feel that a guy who ranks 8th out of 10 is a legit prospect then, yes, it's a terrible trade. IMO, Almonte was a prospect. I'll leave it at that. And I don't regard Kelley as being mediocre.

  16. #5016
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    Martin batted .242 with .777 OPS and 13 HRs after all star break. The .193 BABIP induced .179BA of the first half was just too deep to get out of.

    Russell Martin is a very good bet to rebound and will most likely earn his contract.
    ^ This.

    As far as the "why are we suddenly complaining about the catcher" comments, initially I wasn't that upset when they didn't re-sign Martin because I just assumed they had a better plan to replace him. Now the realization is setting in that they are actually serious about going into the season with a craptastic catching duo of Stewart/Cervell.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  17. #5017
    Sunny days ahead YankeePride1967's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    ^ This.

    As far as the "why are we suddenly complaining about the catcher" comments, initially I wasn't that upset when they didn't re-sign Martin because I just assumed they had a better plan to replace him. Now the realization is setting in that they are actually serious about going into the season with a craptastic catching duo of Stewart/Cervell.
    To be honest, I would have preferred someone other than the above. Yes, Martin was better the second half, but not enough to where if there is a cap on what we spend, I wouldn't spend money on him. I do wish that we could have found someone better than we have though.

  18. #5018
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    ^ This.

    As far as the "why are we suddenly complaining about the catcher" comments, initially I wasn't that upset when they didn't re-sign Martin because I just assumed they had a better plan to replace him. Now the realization is setting in that they are actually serious about going into the season with a craptastic catching duo of Stewart/Cervell.
    Exactly. Folks who keep chiming in that the platoon will roughly equal Martin.....crazy.
    Goin for 2<strike>7</strike>8!

  19. #5019
    Quote Originally Posted by goin for 27 View Post
    Exactly. Folks who keep chiming in that the platoon will roughly equal Martin.....crazy.
    I never said that they will roughly equal Martin, did I? Not that he set some high standard anyway. But since you brought it up, I don't think that the difference is going to be so bad that it should be constantly complained about.

  20. #5020

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    ^ This.

    As far as the "why are we suddenly complaining about the catcher" comments, initially I wasn't that upset when they didn't re-sign Martin because I just assumed they had a better plan to replace him. Now the realization is setting in that they are actually serious about going into the season with a craptastic catching duo of Stewart/Cervell.
    I had the same thoughts as you when they didn't resign him, but later realized that money probably went to backfill 3B. The pain of Arod's injury essentially got redirected to the catcher position.

    Martin was craptastic (to the Stewvelli level) for the first 130+ games last year (.195 with a .660 OPS), which likely weighed into the decision. Its hard to believe his terrific September was the norm and the prior 5 months the exception.
    “Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier, the cigars taste better. The trees are greener.”—Billy Martin

  21. #5021

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Adding Gardner to the OF in any position probably improves Granderson's defense. If he's in LF, there's no Ibanez and Granderson doesn't have to range as far to begin with. If you put Gardner in CF, you also get the superior defender calling off Granderson on balls in between them. I expect Granderson become a plus LFer with Gardner in center.


  22. #5022

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    If Lohse is looking for a pillow contract, would it be smart to grab him?

    edit: I just remembered he has a draft pick tied to him.
    Thank you for making me calm today, Brett Gardner

  23. #5023

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    Martin batted .242 with .777 OPS and 13 HRs after all star break. The .193 BABIP induced .179BA of the first half was just too deep to get out of.

    Russell Martin is a very good bet to rebound and will most likely earn his contract.
    Probably, but it was the 2014 committment that they didn't want.
    Team Northern Lights

  24. #5024

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by goin for 27 View Post
    Exactly. Folks who keep chiming in that the platoon will roughly equal Martin.....crazy.
    I think they will.
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  25. #5025
    Playin' Everywhere Mark19's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    I think they will.
    If you are conceding a .670 OPS to your catcher, he'd better be a superlative defender.

    Martin may have only turned in a .713 OPS last season but he didn't wear down after 130 starts and is considered by many metrics and scouting reports to be an above-average defender.

    To his credit, Cervelli has solid OBP numbers against LHP. He also has lingering health concerns and has never started more than 100 games at any level. Further to that, I don't recall hearing any accolades about his defense. This also assumes that he won't be sanctioned for his role in the Biogenesis scandal.

    Stewart produces almost nothing offensively, so we'd better not see anything less than vintage Pudge glovework.

    Even allowing for the vagueness of catcher defense metrics, I don't see how a Cervelli/Stewart tandem is going to replicate or exceed Martin's production.
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