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  1. #4751

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by d32123 View Post
    Yankee fans need to get over their persecution complex.
    What I find amusing is the average fan around here is constantly b!tching about the team in one way or the other, then when someone on TV says something negative they feel like the team is being picked on unfairly.
    27 World Championships
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  2. #4752
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Between the Yankees self-imposed salary cap, the Yankee links to PEDs, the catcher mess, and the Yankee willingness to part ways with a couple of important pieces of the team, this has been a horrid off-season.

  3. #4753
    The Sausage King of Chicago Abe Frohman's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by 2JAY View Post
    Between the Yankees self-imposed salary cap, the Yankee links to PEDs, the catcher mess, and the Yankee willingness to part ways with a couple of important pieces of the team, this has been a horrid off-season.
    I wonder if they could still remain somewhat competitive without having the highest payroll in the league. sit somewhere between 150 n 180 mil. Maybe then the organization wouldnt be such a target.
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  4. #4754
    Pinpoint False1's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by 2JAY View Post
    Between the Yankees self-imposed salary cap, the Yankee links to PEDs, the catcher mess, and the Yankee willingness to part ways with a couple of important pieces of the team, this has been a horrid off-season.
    It could end up playing out that way... then again maybe not. I'm trying to be open minded about it. I'm still envisioning the Yanks as AL East winners, so it's hard to call any off-season leading up to that "horrid."

  5. #4755

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Abe Frohman View Post
    I wonder if they could still remain somewhat competitive without having the highest payroll in the league. sit somewhere between 150 n 180 mil. Maybe then the organization wouldnt be such a target.
    They could remain somewhat competitive, but like the Red Sox who live at that range they would be at the whims of whatever misfortune they suffer. The strength of the Yankees is buying their way out of trouble and filling the roster to such an extent that recovery from complications is possible.

    This too
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  6. #4756
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    it's hard to live in that payroll range when 80% of your budget is tied up to just a handful of guys
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  7. #4757
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by flymick24 View Post
    it's hard to live in that payroll range when 80% of your budget is tied up to just a handful of guys
    Also hard when there are very few young guys from the farm system on the team. That's where you can save some serious cash.

  8. #4758
    The Sausage King of Chicago Abe Frohman's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by flymick24 View Post
    it's hard to live in that payroll range when 80% of your budget is tied up to just a handful of guys
    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    Also hard when there are very few young guys from the farm system on the team. That's where you can save some serious cash.
    Which is why i've been saying for quite some time now that their strategy is not working. They need to go back to the drawing board and reassess the situation. There are other teams out there fielding younger, more productive teams on less payroll, year in and out.
    ? Can switching to Geico really save you 15 % or more on car insurance ? ? Does the postman always ring twice ?

  9. #4759
    NYYF Cy Young


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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    But some of those teams have been getting consistently high draft picks, and the Yankees have been very good for so long that they are not getting those picks, as well as losing some when they have signed someone else's free agent. So in fairness to the FO, the top young guys have not been available to them.

  10. #4760
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Abe Frohman View Post
    Which is why i've been saying for quite some time now that their strategy is not working. They need to go back to the drawing board and reassess the situation. There are other teams out there fielding younger, more productive teams on less payroll, year in and out.
    While there are teams that are more productive on an ROI comparison, I don't think there are many (if any) that have been more productive over the long-term. Until the Yankees (and their fans) are willing to accept a bridge year or two, it's going to be a challenge to restock, particularly on a budget.
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  11. #4761

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by ZIM 2002 View Post
    But some of those teams have been getting consistently high draft picks, and the Yankees have been very good for so long that they are not getting those picks, as well as losing some when they have signed someone else's free agent. So in fairness to the FO, the top young guys have not been available to them.
    That disadvantage was gotten around by spending in the international area and going overslot for "signability" cases ( both gone now )

    I think the problem w/ the Yanks is not developing that talent they do manage to acquire effectively

    How many times have we heard of the talent in the lower majors only to see them flame out. Particularly true w/ starting pitching

    We've supposedly got 4 can't miss prospects now- hope they break that pattern
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  12. #4762

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    27 World Championships
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    Liberated France Twice

  13. #4763

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Abe Frohman View Post
    There are other teams out there fielding younger, more productive teams on less payroll, year in and out.
    Who are the teams that have had consistently more productive teams than the Yankees, year in, year out?
    Team Northern Lights

  14. #4764
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    Maybe he meant hair extensions?

    Honestly, I don't believe a word out of Hal's mouth anymore.... He's clearly shown that he's all about the bottom line, and any garbage he feeds me about doing what it takes to win will only be seen as saying what the fans want to hear

    In the words of the immortal DMX: "Talk is cheap muthaf***a"
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  15. #4765

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by NerfBall55 View Post
    Who are the teams that have had consistently more productive teams than the Yankees, year in, year out?
    Ooooh! Pick me! PICK ME! PLEASE PICK ME!

    The answer is: none!
    Thank you for making me calm today, Brett Gardner

  16. #4766
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by flymick24 View Post
    Maybe he meant hair extensions?

    Honestly, I don't believe a word out of Hal's mouth anymore.... He's clearly shown that he's all about the bottom line, and any garbage he feeds me about doing what it takes to win will only be seen as saying what the fans want to hear

    In the words of the immortal DMX: "Talk is cheap muthaf***a"
    While I agree with you, he's also been pretty straightforward, and I doubt they'd say that if it wasn't true... otherwise Boras would contradict him publicly
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  17. #4767

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by flymick24 View Post
    Maybe he meant hair extensions?

    Honestly, I don't believe a word out of Hal's mouth anymore.... He's clearly shown that he's all about the bottom line, and any garbage he feeds me about doing what it takes to win will only be seen as saying what the fans want to hear

    In the words of the immortal DMX: "Talk is cheap muthaf***a"
    I agree. He sounds like a removed, number crunching, pencil pushing, bottom-line oriented guy without much soul or passion for the team. At least Hank is entertaining like his dad and shows some passion, even if he's clueless and ineffective as a boss. I kind of miss the old Yankee drama and noise, especially when we crap out after the first round.


  18. #4768
    The Sausage King of Chicago Abe Frohman's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by NerfBall55 View Post
    Who are the teams that have had consistently more productive teams than the Yankees, year in, year out?
    Detroit Tigers, Texas Rangers, Tampa Bay Rays, Cincinnati Reds, San Francisco Giants, St. Louis Cardinals ... all these teams have been just as relevant and in some cases even more relevant than the Yankees in the last 5 or so seasons, on less payroll ... some of them WAY less.

    Younger, cheaper, just as productive if not more.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    Ooooh! Pick me! PICK ME! PLEASE PICK ME!

    The answer is: none!
    Yep.

    Yankees are the best team in the universe. It would be asinine to think that maybe some other FO can get it done better than we can.

    My bad.

    The one advantage this team has over others is financial muscle, and they don't even flex that like they should.
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  19. #4769
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by 2JAY View Post
    Between the Yankees self-imposed salary cap, the Yankee links to PEDs, the catcher mess, and the Yankee willingness to part ways with a couple of important pieces of the team, this has been a horrid off-season.
    I think this is the first time in almost 20 years that you look at this team coming into the season and say they have absolutely no chance of winning the WS.

    The playoffs are a longshot.
    DFA ARod.

  20. #4770

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Abe Frohman View Post
    Detroit Tigers, Texas Rangers, Tampa Bay Rays, Cincinnati Reds, San Francisco Giants, St. Louis Cardinals ... all these teams have been just as relevant and in some cases even more relevant than the Yankees in the last 5 or so seasons, on less payroll ... some of them WAY less.

    Younger, cheaper, just as productive if not more.
    So the argument has changed from more productive to more relevant?

    No team has been as productive as NY over the last 10-15 years. Not even close.

    But to use your five window span, ONE of the teams on that list has more WS than NY, one the same, and four have none. And, in 2012, they won the WS with 66 points less OPS, and by played in crappy division.
    Team Northern Lights

  21. #4771
    The Sausage King of Chicago Abe Frohman's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigi Buffon View Post
    I think this is the first time in almost 20 years that you look at this team coming into the season and say they have absolutely no chance of winning the WS.

    The playoffs are a longshot.
    I myself am fine with a down year, Maybe a few. This organization needs change.
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  22. #4772
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Abe Frohman View Post
    Detroit Tigers, Texas Rangers, Tampa Bay Rays, Cincinnati Reds, San Francisco Giants, St. Louis Cardinals ... all these teams have been just as relevant and in some cases even more relevant than the Yankees in the last 5 or so seasons, on less payroll ... some of them WAY less.

    Younger, cheaper, just as productive if not more..
    Really? What's your standard?

    Only half of those teams have made the playoffs even 3 times in the past 5 years (and the other 3 less). The Giants obviously have the two WS wins, so you can make the argument for them, but I don't see how these teams are even more relevant than the Yankees "year in and year out" (as you said) if they aren't even making the post season as much.
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  23. #4773
    The Sausage King of Chicago Abe Frohman's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by NerfBall55 View Post
    So the argument has changed from more productive to more relevant?

    No team has been as productive as NY over the last 10-15 years. Not even close.

    But to use your five window span, ONE of the teams on that list has more WS than NY, one the same, and four have none. And, in 2012, they won the WS with 66 points less OPS, and by played in crappy division.
    Fact is that they made it and they won ... who cares what division they play in. Doesnt change the fact that any of those teams could wipe the floor with us in a playoff series.

    Especially Detroit and Texas. Both of those teams are BETTER than us. The FO is getting it done smarter, thus the product on the field is better.

    why is it so difficult for some to admit ?
    ? Can switching to Geico really save you 15 % or more on car insurance ? ? Does the postman always ring twice ?

  24. #4774
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Abe Frohman View Post
    Fact is that they made it and they won ... who cares what division they play in. Doesnt change the fact that any of those teams could wipe the floor with us in a playoff series.

    Especially Detroit and Texas. Both of those teams are BETTER than us. The FO is getting it done smarter, thus the product on the field is better.

    why is it so difficult for some to admit ?
    Perhaps because you keep shifting your argument and its hard to keep track? This went teams being better year in and year out to teams being better than the Yankees right now. Even over just the last 5 years, the Tigers didn't even make the playoffs for the first 3 years, and the Rangers barely made them last year and lost in the playoff game to the Orioles.

    Both teams may well be better than the Yankees this year. But that's not where you started.
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  25. #4775

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Who cares whether Abe or anyone else declares one team better than another on paper? What matters is who wins the games. Last year the Yankees were a better team than the Tigers and Rangers during the season, but were a worse team in the post-season than the Tigers. That is what we know.

    They have to play the games in 2013 before we know about this year.

    Over the past five years, the Yankees have had more success and won more games in total than the Tigers or Rangers. We also know that.

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