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  1. #4151

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by The Comic Book Guy View Post
    Which ones? You wanted us to get Prince or Pujols?
    I'd most certainly have preferred Fielder to Teixeira. Their contracts are similar, but Fielder is 4 years younger and performance-wise is currently on a different planet than Teixeira.


  2. #4152

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    At one point wasn't that said of Irabu, and Matsuzaka? I mean, I get that he's got better stuff than those guys but I also get why they didn't want to roll the dice.
    Matsuzaka, yes, but Irabu was already kind of a flash in the pan in the NPB. And the difference between then and now is the proliferation of NPB video, more info, more scouting. Matsuzaka got derailed hard by injuries, but that could happen to any pitcher and often does, not really exclusive to japanese pitchers. Even comparing Darvish vs Matsuzaka, Darvish is better in every way going by NPB stats. Then you factor in that Darvish is a 6'5 half-iranian BOSS instead of a shortish/kind of soft bodied pitcher like Matsuzaka.

    Having seen Darvish a lot in the NPB before he came over, I think the Yankees made a big mistake. They should have got Darvish AND Kuroda last year.

  3. #4153

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    I'm assuming he's talking about Gonzalez. Because that worked out swimmingly.
    I know that you're being a bit snide in your response, but currently, AGon wouldn't have been my top choice, though I hated seeing him go to the BoSox in 2011, as I'm sure you're aware. But, now that you mention it, I'd swap them in a heartbeat. Teix is in the middle of a longer decline than AGon, who's only had one sub-par year that was actually similar to Teix's 2012, and at a somewhat lower cost. I suspect that the short porch at YS would add a few homers to his bat as well. I could easily see him bouncing back in 2013 and consider 2012 an off-year. Of course, there are injury concerns and whispers about his shoulder. That said, I don't have the same confidence in Teixeira considering his steady decline over the past 3 year and those, ahem, nagging injuries. And, as I've mentioned, I seriously believe that he did (or took) whatever it would take to get that big payday in 2009.

    But, let's look at the bigger picture. Do you really think that list of moves snapple posted that the Yanks made is an impressive one, and/or stands out against moves that other teams have made in that period of time?


  4. #4154

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax Teller View Post
    Also gave up Kennedy & Coke in the process. While losing Coke is no big deal, he's been on about the same page as Logan.
    Good point. I forgot to mention that. Let's face it, Granderson will not be with this team in 2014, so even if he improves on his 2012 numbers, this trade won't favor the Yanks. AJax and IPK are exactly the type of young, cost-controlled players that this team needs and should be seeking. What a shame that they gave them away.


  5. #4155
    Don't call it a comeback False1's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by ArodEra View Post
    I know that you're being a bit snide in your response, but currently, AGon wouldn't have been my top choice, though I hated seeing him go to the BoSox in 2011, as I'm sure you're aware. But, now that you mention it, I'd swap them in a heartbeat. Teix is in the middle of a longer decline than AGon, who's only had one sub-par year that was actually similar to Teix's 2012, and at a somewhat lower cost. I suspect that the short porch at YS would add a few homers to his bat as well. I could easily see him bouncing back in 2013 and consider 2012 an off-year. Of course, there are injury concerns and whispers about his shoulder. That said, I don't have the same confidence in Teixeira considering his steady decline over the past 3 year and those, ahem, nagging injuries. And, as I've mentioned, I seriously believe that he did (or took) whatever it would take to get that big payday in 2009.
    I wouldn't. Gonzalez has 6/$127MM remaining compared to 4/$90MM for Tex. We'd also be missing one WS trophy. FWIW Tex had a higher wRC+ than Gonzalez and you could make the argument he may be declining. Over the past 4 seasons his BB% (17.5% 13.4%, 10.3%, 6.1%) and isop (.274, .213, .210, .164) have not trended well to say the least. You note the shoulder surgery; I wouldn't be so dismissive of the drop in power being correlated. Fenway didn't exactly hurt his game given his ability to go opposite field, and if you look at his spray charts the last two years he got as much help HR wise from the dimensions in that Green Nightmare as he would of from the short porch.

    Not trying to be snide, although I do enjoy a little banter with you. I'm pretty confident you were referring to Gonzalez; you said "first baseman" and if memory serves you'e been beating that drum for a while now. Led to a lot of "Theo fan" and "Cashman apologist" banter. But even if you change the names to Fielder or Pujols, I'm out on that... We got a WS in '09, and you're kidding yourself if you don't think the Tigers and Angels are going to be hating life in the backend of those deals.

    Also, there is no evidence of steroid usage for any of these guys. You can point to a drop in Gonzalez' isop just as easily and make a wild accusation that he was on and off PEDs.

    But, let's look at the bigger picture. Do you really think that list of moves snapple posted that the Yanks made is an impressive one, and/or stands out against moves that other teams have made in that period of time?
    My response had nothing to do with snapple's post. I'll let him talk to its merits.

  6. #4156

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    At one point wasn't that said of Irabu, and Matsuzaka? I mean, I get that he's got better stuff than those guys but I also get why they didn't want to roll the dice.

    While I was hoping the Yankees would swoop, and the K/9 and stuff look strong, he would have taken Kuroda's money last year and this year and so far Kuroda is leading Darvish 1-0.
    you are completely ignoring the scouting on darvish.
    always reasonable

  7. #4157
    Don't call it a comeback False1's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    you are completely ignoring the scouting on darvish.
    I'm not ignoring anything. There was scouting on those other bestest pitchers ever too. I acknowledged he has better stuff than those guys as well. Not sure why you have to be defensive re: Darvish, but I do appreciate you producing a coherent post albeit a misguided one.

  8. #4158
    Sunny days ahead YankeePride1967's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by NerfBall55 View Post
    So our 97 and 95 win teams lost in the playoffs because of age?
    And we won 97, 95 games, went to the playoffs twice including an AL Championship series, won two divisions since 2010 and we didn't contend.

    I agree we are an old team but that has nothing to do with contending as Abe claimed earlier.

  9. #4159
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    I do not think losing Martin's 21 Hrs is a big deal. But not having him behind the plate will be. Martin kept opposing players from stealing 2B and that led to less runs scored against the Yankees. Neither Cervelli or Stewart are anywhere near as strong behind the plate as Martin was.

  10. #4160

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    And we won 97, 95 games, went to the playoffs twice including an AL Championship series, won two divisions since 2010 and we didn't contend.

    I agree we are an old team but that has nothing to do with contending as Abe claimed earlier.
    The thread has now devolved into lableling 97 win teams as "over aged, non contenders".
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  11. #4161

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    You'd think the team was total ................ based on many of the comments in this thread.
    EvilEmpireDC: Fans bitch about anything lol

  12. #4162

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    George's and Jeter's 'win-it-all-or-be-a-failure' philosophy is partly responsible for the sentiments expressed by many of the more demanding posters here.

    George, I think, was an entertainer who induced many to believe he cared primarily about winning rather than making money. This in turn, however, created fans with unrealistic expectations of success in an era when other franchises have cable networks and aggressive ownership. Hal, who knows his father really cared primarily about making money, does not seem to understand these expectations. And Hal is not an entertainer like his father. He is just a businessman with an eye on the bottom line. It will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next few years. I am just glad I enjoy watching and rooting for the Yankees regardless. (Or almost regardless; the 2012 playoffs, for instance, were excruciating.)

  13. #4163

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    I also wanted to say that I am still glad the Yankees made the Granderson trade. I think it gave them a better team over most of the last three years, certainly the first two of those three years.

    I also would note that if the Yankees now gave the D'Backs what they would need to get Upton, it would be a similar trade of future cost-controlled players for an outstanding, though flawed, current player with several years of a reasonable contract remaining. Are those who criticize the Yankees for making a Granderson-type trade also against trading now for Upton? Or are they just making the easy assertion, with no real knowledge, that "I could have negotiated a better trade."

  14. #4164

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by rajah View Post
    I also wanted to say that I am still glad the Yankees made the Granderson trade. I think it gave them a better team over most of the last three years, certainly the first two of those three years.

    I also would note that if the Yankees now gave the D'Backs what they would need to get Upton, it would be a similar trade of future cost-controlled players for an outstanding, though flawed, current player with several years of a reasonable contract remaining. Are those who criticize the Yankees for making a Granderson-type trade also against trading now for Upton? Or are they just making the easy assertion, with no real knowledge, that "I could have negotiated a better trade."
    Stop with all that "logic" nonsense.
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  15. #4165
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    At one point wasn't that said of Irabu, and Matsuzaka? I mean, I get that he's got better stuff than those guys but I also get why they didn't want to roll the dice.

    While I was hoping the Yankees would swoop, and the K/9 and stuff look strong, he would have taken Kuroda's money last year and this year and so far Kuroda is leading Darvish 1-0.
    Darvish was the far superior pitcher and it wasn't close at all.





    That's five consecutive years where he outperformed Matsuzaka's best season. Better performance, better stuff, and a better pitcher's frame. It's unlikely the NPB is gonna produce a talent as good as Darvish for a long, long while, if ever. Kuroda was great, but I'm still pissed over that non-signing mainly because you know that Igawa's lousy ass shook them.

  16. #4166

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    But why should he be paid, the amount of money he did get paid, with 0 MLB games under his belt? And believe me, I wanted Darvish bad. But I can at least understand why they didn't pull the trigger. Plus, the Yankees did submit a bid (rumored to be 20m+). That's not "doing nothing".
    EvilEmpireDC: Fans bitch about anything lol

  17. #4167
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    But why should he be paid, the amount of money he did get paid, with 0 MLB games under his belt?
    How much money do you think is okay for someone with no MLB experience to make?

  18. #4168
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    fiscal restraint makes sense when you're going after average talent - you probably have a number in mind that you're willing to meet, and you won't go beyond that... however, when it comes to elite talent (which darvish and even chapman were considered), you need to break the bank and flex the financial muscles, especially when they're both available outside a draft setting

    the frustrating thing about this organization is that they don't seem to know how to properly allocate their funds... they overpay for mediocre or over-the-hill talent, yet when it comes to younger, more up and coming players, they cite the "unknown" factor and are only willing to go so far... and yet they'll bend over and take it up the ass for players like ichiro
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  19. #4169
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    The precedence was set with DiceK. It's a ton of money, but the game is littered nowadays with monster contracts and seemingly any talented, yet, slightly above average player (BJ Upton) is cashing on a 5/75 type of deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    But why should he be paid, the amount of money he did get paid, with 0 MLB games under his belt? And believe me, I wanted Darvish bad. But I can at least understand why they didn't pull the trigger. Plus, the Yankees did submit a bid (rumored to be 20m+). That's not "doing nothing".
    Yea, it was one of those "we're not signing him, but lets make it seem like we gave it our best effort" type of thing. That would fly if it were the Royals, but they clearly had no interest in going after the guy. I can see them passing on Lee because his insane AAV would kill any chance at staying under the "cap," bit Darvish makes 11M in his final year of the contract..five years from now. I don't even wanna get started on Chapman.

  20. #4170

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by The Comic Book Guy View Post
    How much money do you think is okay for someone with no MLB experience to make?
    Less than what Darvish is getting. Plus, we do have a league minimum.
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  21. #4171
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    Less than what Darvish is getting. Plus, we do have a league minimum.
    Sigh.

  22. #4172

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by The Comic Book Guy View Post
    Sigh.
    I don't think Darvish should get league min, FWIW.

    edit: I'm not happy that we don't have Darvish. I think we should. But, I'm just trying to say that there's a more legitimate reason for not having him other than "we're to stingy XD" that seems to be thrown around on here by some.
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  23. #4173
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    they honestly are not that good at evaluating talent

    and as others have mentioned, the saddest thing is that you just know that the abortion known as igawa hindered them from making serious runs at chapman, darvish, and even cespedes... again, it just comes back to bad talent evaluation
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  24. #4174
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/stor...-year-contract
    Three down, one to go.

    The New York Yankees reached an agreement Friday with left-handed middle reliever Boone Logan on a one-year deal worth $3.15 million, avoiding having to go to an arbitrator with the third of their four pitchers who filed for arbitration earlier this week.

    Previously, the Yankees had reached agreements with Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain. Only David Robertson remains unsigned. Logan's new contract is a raise of $1.25 million.

  25. #4175

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    The rumor for the Yankees darvish bid was not even 20+, it was ~15. So they bid far less for Darvish than they did for Igawa? How much sense does that make? They bid far less for Darvish than they did for Matsuzaka? How much sense does THAT make? I would pay the total cost 100 mil for Darvish because you get a 50% discount on that money on the luxury tax, you can sell digital advertising to Japan, stadium signage, and in stadium merchandise sales which are not included in the league merchandising pot. If Darvish helps them get under the luxury tax limit, then its recouping the 50 mil posting fee. Remember only the contract goes to Darvish and he should be worth 9 AAV. Plus Hal could think of it as charity to help out their fellow league, which needs all the help it can get. They used to have a great relationship with the NPB.

    Most importantly, I would pay 100 million for the rights to an elite talent. Darvish killed a league that is better than AAA. He would have been the #1 pitching prospect in the game for a 5 consecutive years. How much would you pay for that? If Strasberg was a free agent instead of a draft pick, how much would you pay for the chance to have that guy on the team? Or Bryce Harper? Or Mike Trout?

    How much would you pay for these guys if they were both a free agent AND with 5 years of incredibly good AAA performance, ready to take their shot in the big leagues?

    Letting Cespedes go to another team for 9 AAV, & Darvish the same. Letting Chapman go to the reds for even less AAV, when he is a lefty that throws 100 mph. Meanwhile we sign Adonis Garcia, the jokiest of the INTL prospects because we could get him for cheap.

    I don't like it.

    Source: http://riveraveblues.com/2012/01/rep...darvish-61341/

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