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  1. #1651

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    [/B]

    Rajah,

    I strongly disagree. I owned a ticket plan throughout the 80's and 90's when the team didn't make the playoffs and even sucked for some of those years. Here's the difference, the tickets were not outrageously priced as they are now and despite what we may think of the old man's methods, nobody could dispute that his top priority was winning. I dropped my plan this year because they're charging top dollar and IMO winning is no longer the top priority. Would you patronize a restaurant that charged top dollar when the food and service was average? I wouldn't and why should this be any different? Foe me this is not about wanting dominat team every year, its about being treated as ATM machine and not a customer.
    I respect your position. You have a right to it, and I recognize that it is different than the fans here who demand a dominant team. They also have a right to take that position.

    But since you asked, I don't buy tickets to baseball games because I want to see the Yankees dominate. I want to see good competitive baseball and root for a team that I follow closely and have an emotional connection with, not knowing whether they will win a particular game or in a particular year. The Yankees being average is not like a restaurant being average for me.

  2. #1652

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Nate would be a good pickup. Can't hit lefties, but maybe Long can work with him. Pretty effective against righties though.

    Wonder if that would signal the end of Ichiro...

  3. #1653

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by rajah View Post
    Or you can root for another team that is doing exciting things in the off season.

    That is what I do in other sports.

    But in baseball, I stick with the Yankees, regardless of how much money the management spends or how incompetent I might think they are, even in the CBS days. I will continue to root and go to the park. That does not make me better than front running fans or fans who demand more from ownership, just perhaps different.
    Rajah, see my previous post. This has nothing to do with being a front runner. I was a ticket hold for every season that they didn't make the playoffs from 82 to 94. This is about the organization charging top dollar for their product and not living up to their side of the bargain. I chose to hold their feet to the fire by withholding some dollars. If you chose differently thats your perogative.

  4. #1654

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    You can vote with your wallet
    Fans are already staying away. Just look at the turnout during the playoffs, not to mention the decline in attendance during the regular season. With the direction this team is going, the aging players and Yankee Stadium prices, they'll stay away in droves. This town can (and has) easily shift toward the Mets, with them becoming the media darlings once again. The luster of this team has worn off and many Yankee fans are jaded. Personally, I'm tired of the signing players nearing 40 taking priority, including current players with few options that aren't going anywhere.. Woohoo, we signed Mo and Pettitte!!! Where else where they going to go? Then we fill the rest of the roster with a bunch of old men like Ibanez, Ichiro and company, as if this team doesn't already have enough tired legs. Great.

    It truly is time to clean house and get a new perspective, new pairs of eyes, from top to bottom, because pretty soon they'll have trouble giving away those $1,500 seats.


  5. #1655
    Playin' Everywhere Mark19's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by rajah View Post
    No; we do not "know." You do not know how competitions are going to come out, although you could be pretty confident with some Yankee teams.

    But tell me; which teams in the AL East do you seriously think the Yankees will not have a competitive chance against? I would disagree with you naming any team.
    As it stands, I think the current lineup would get their clocks cleaned by a healthy Blue Jays squad.

    The Orioles and the Red Sox also have the potential to be very potent, especially if one of them lands Hamilton or Upton.
    SI: Do you have a secret ambition?
    Igawa: That's secret.


    "They should just practice during the regular season and show up for the playoffs -Ichiro on the Yankees

  6. #1656

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    This thread has so much awesome.

  7. #1657

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by ArodEra View Post
    Fans are already staying away. Just look at the turnout during the playoffs, not to mention the decline in attendance during the regular season. With the direction this team is going, the aging players and Yankee Stadium prices, they'll stay away in droves. This town can (and has) easily shift toward the Mets, with them becoming the media darlings once again. The luster of this team has worn off and many Yankee fans are jaded. Personally, I'm tired of the signing players nearing 40 taking priority. Woohoo, we signed Mo and Pettiitee!!! Where else where they going to go? Then fill the rest of the roster with old men like Ibanez, Ichiro and company. Great.

    It truly is time to clean house and get a new perspective, new pairs of eyes, from top to bottom, because pretty soon they'll have trouble giving away those $1,500 seats.
    The empty seats during the playoffs was kinda stunning. Par for the course for teams like the Braves or Houston where I went to non sold out playoff games, but for the Yanks was a shocker to me
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdvM0IB5Sbs

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  8. #1658

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by ArodEra View Post
    Fans are already staying away. Just look at the turnout during the playoffs, not to mention the decline in attendance during the regular season. With the direction this team is going, the aging players and Yankee Stadium prices, they'll stay away in droves. I can easily see a shift going toward the Mets way, with them owning this town again. The luster of this team has worn off and many Yankee fans are jaded. Personally, I'm tired of the signing players nearing 40 taking priority, including players with few choices that aren't going anywhere.

    It truly is time to clean house and get a new perspective, new pairs of eyes, from top to bottom, because pretty soon they'll have trouble giving away those $1,500 seats.
    I think this is a key point, its very difficult for the fan base to embrace these close to 40 year old players that are getting signed to one year deals. It will get worse in a year or two when Jeter, Pettite, and Rivera are gone. Think about it, who will be the face of this franchise? Even if Cano is resigned he will be entering his decline years in a few years and quite frankly the fanbase has really never embraced him the way they did with core four and other players such as O'Neil and Bernie.

  9. #1659
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Jayson Stark ‏@jaysonst The big buzz this morning at the winter meetings is: Watch out for Texas on Zack Greinke.

  10. #1660
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    I'd be more comfortable with them not wanting to spend if they didn't go all out in the '08 offseason and have it pay off instantly.

  11. #1661
    Playin' Everywhere Mark19's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    I think this is a key point, its very difficult for the fan base to embrace these close to 40 year old players that are getting signed to one year deals. It will get worse in a year or two when Jeter, Pettite, and Rivera are gone. Think about it, who will be the face of this franchise? Even if Cano is resigned he will be entering his decline years in a few years and quite frankly the fanbase has really never embraced him the way they did with core four and other players such as O'Neil and Bernie.
    The organization got almost 20 dynastic seasons out of Bernie, Jeter, Posada, Mo and Pettitte -- In 2015, the year after austerity, I think it is a reasonable bet that they will all be retired. The organization needs to find a new face and a new identity, I think some of those players are already in the system. I'd feel more optimistic if they hadn't thrown away so many of their 1st picks on shot-in-the-dark, raw talent.
    SI: Do you have a secret ambition?
    Igawa: That's secret.


    "They should just practice during the regular season and show up for the playoffs -Ichiro on the Yankees

  12. #1662

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Putting aside the players they've recently signed, I'm envious of the position the Sox are in, with the potential for building a formidable team for years to come, if only they play their cards right; a new GM (probably a puppet in their cas), ridding themselves of awful contracts, freeing themselves of tons of money and a farm system that's apparently more productive than ours.

    I'd love for this team to have a fresh start like that, albeit with a GM/FO that wouldn't think of signing Victorino for 3yrs/$39M. No more ARod, Granderson and Teixeira, to name a few. One can only dream.


  13. #1663
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark19 View Post
    As it stands, I think the current lineup would get their clocks cleaned by a healthy Blue Jays squad.

    The Orioles and the Red Sox also have the potential to be very potent, especially if one of them lands Hamilton or Upton.
    I seriously doubt Baltimore will be making any blockbuster deals. Angelos will look at how the team fared this year and opt to keep the payroll where it is.

  14. #1664
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by ArodEra View Post
    Putting aside the players they've recently signed, I'm envious of the position the Sox are in-and the possibilities of building a formidable team for years to come, if they played their cards right; a new GM, ridding themselves of awful contracts, freeing themselves of tons of money and a farm system that's apparently more productive than ours.

    I'd love for this team to have a fresh start like that, albeit with a GM/FO that wouldn't think of signing Victorino for 3yrs/$39M. No more ARod, Granderson and Teixeira, to name a few. One can only dream.
    they chose a bad time to clean house... this year's FA market is crap

    they had all that money burning a hole in their pockets, so they ended up spending it on gomes, napoli, and victorino
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  15. #1665

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark19 View Post
    The organization got almost 20 dynastic seasons out of Bernie, Jeter, Posada, Mo and Pettitte -- In 2015, the year after austerity, I think it is a reasonable bet that they will all be retired. The organization needs to find a new face and a new identity, I think some of those players are already in the system. I'd feel more optimistic if they hadn't thrown away so many of their 1st picks on shot-in-the-dark, raw talent.
    The poor drafts of 2007 - 2009 are coming back to bite this organization

  16. #1666

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by flymick24 View Post
    they chose a bad time to clean house... this year's FA market is crap

    they had all that money burning a hole in their pockets, so they ended up spending it on gomes, napoli, and victorino
    They obviously haven't played their cards right thus far (IMO), but they certainly have more tools and opportunities than we do at this point, including that $189 budget and a declining, aging core on the Yankee roster. In the right hands and with the right decisions, the Sox have the potential to be formidable for years to come. I just don't see the opportunity for such a bright light in the Yankees' future, with all the restraints and our disappointing farm system.

    I also think the Sox are looking beyond this year's FA crop and more into the future. They seem to have the resources. I just hope they screw things up with more signings like Victorino. I'm not saying the Sox are in better hands, just that they have more opportunity given the position they created for themselves.


  17. #1667
    Playin' Everywhere Mark19's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    The poor drafts of 2007 - 2009 are coming back to bite this organization
    Since 2001 -

    2001 - Bronson Sardinha - Few Innings in Majors - Failed Pick
    2001 - John-Ford Griffin - Few Innings in Majors with Blue Jays - Failed Pick
    2001 - Jon Skaggs - Failed Pick
    2002 - No Pick
    2003 - Eric Duncan - Rushed Through System - Failed Pick
    2004 - Jeffrey Marquez - A Few Garbage Innings in the Majors - Failed Pick
    2004 - Jonathan Poterson - Failed Pick
    2005 - C.J. Henry - Traded for Bobby Abreu - Returned to System - Failed Pick
    2006 - Ian Kennedy - Struggled in Majors and Traded in Granderson Deal
    2006 - Joba Chamberlain - Starter turned Productive Reliever
    2007 - Andrew Brackman - Failed Pick
    2008 - Gerrit Cole - Failed to Sign
    2008 - Jeremy Bleich - Injured/Still in Low Minors
    2009 - Slade Heathcott - Injured/Still in Low Minors
    2010 - Cito Culver - Failed Pick/Struggled in Low Minors
    2011 - Dane Bichette Jr. - Struggled in Low Minors
    2012 - Ty Hensley - TBA

    Yikes
    SI: Do you have a secret ambition?
    Igawa: That's secret.


    "They should just practice during the regular season and show up for the playoffs -Ichiro on the Yankees

  18. #1668

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by surge511 View Post
    Nate would be a good pickup. Can't hit lefties, but maybe Long can work with him. Pretty effective against righties though.

    Wonder if that would signal the end of Ichiro...
    Poor man's Seth Smith. Pass...

  19. #1669
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark19 View Post
    Since 2001 -

    2001 - Bronson Sardinha - Few Innings in Majors - Failed Pick
    2001 - John-Ford Griffin - Few Innings in Majors with Blue Jays - Failed Pick
    2001 - Jon Skaggs - Failed Pick
    2002 - No Pick
    2003 - Eric Duncan - Rushed Through System - Failed Pick
    2004 - Jeffrey Marquez - A Few Garbage Innings in the Majors - Failed Pick
    2004 - Jonathan Poterson - Failed Pick
    2005 - C.J. Henry - Traded for Bobby Abreu - Returned to System - Failed Pick
    2006 - Ian Kennedy - Struggled in Majors and Traded in Granderson Deal
    2006 - Joba Chamberlain - Starter turned Productive Reliever
    2007 - Andrew Brackman - Failed Pick
    2008 - Gerrit Cole - Failed to Sign
    2008 - Jeremy Bleich - Injured/Still in Low Minors
    2009 - Slade Heathcott - Injured/Still in Low Minors
    2010 - Cito Culver - Failed Pick/Struggled in Low Minors
    2011 - Dane Bichette Jr. - Struggled in Low Minors
    2012 - Ty Hensley - TBA

    Yikes
    Who's in charge here?
    Yankee fan living in Maine.

  20. #1670

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark19 View Post
    Since 2001 -

    2001 - Bronson Sardinha - Few Innings in Majors - Failed Pick
    2001 - John-Ford Griffin - Few Innings in Majors with Blue Jays - Failed Pick
    2001 - Jon Skaggs - Failed Pick
    2002 - No Pick
    2003 - Eric Duncan - Rushed Through System - Failed Pick
    2004 - Jeffrey Marquez - A Few Garbage Innings in the Majors - Failed Pick
    2004 - Jonathan Poterson - Failed Pick
    2005 - C.J. Henry - Traded for Bobby Abreu - Returned to System - Failed Pick
    2006 - Ian Kennedy - Struggled in Majors and Traded in Granderson Deal
    2006 - Joba Chamberlain - Starter turned Productive Reliever
    2007 - Andrew Brackman - Failed Pick
    2008 - Gerrit Cole - Failed to Sign
    2008 - Jeremy Bleich - Injured/Still in Low Minors
    2009 - Slade Heathcott - Injured/Still in Low Minors
    2010 - Cito Culver - Failed Pick/Struggled in Low Minors
    2011 - Dane Bichette Jr. - Struggled in Low Minors
    2012 - Ty Hensley - TBA

    Yikes
    You are missing a fairly important 2004 1st round pick, but point made!

  21. #1671

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by apalradio View Post
    Who's in charge here?


  22. #1672
    Playin' Everywhere Mark19's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyTheJetRodriguez View Post
    You are missing a fairly important 2004 1st round pick, but point made!
    Ah yes, how could I forget that Phil was a 1st rounder - for some reason thought he was a supplemental.
    SI: Do you have a secret ambition?
    Igawa: That's secret.


    "They should just practice during the regular season and show up for the playoffs -Ichiro on the Yankees

  23. #1673
    NYYF Cy Young

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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by apalradio View Post
    Who's in charge here?
    Excellent question!
    [SIZE=3]"Scooter - RIP and thank you for being part of my childhood"[/SIZE]

  24. #1674

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark19 View Post
    Ah yes, how could I forget that Phil was a 1st rounder - for some reason thought he was a supplemental.
    You listed several supplementals lol

  25. #1675

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark19 View Post
    As it stands, I think the current lineup would get their clocks cleaned by a healthy Blue Jays squad.

    The Orioles and the Red Sox also have the potential to be very potent, especially if one of them lands Hamilton or Upton.
    The Red Sox need more than that to hit "very potent". They're a mess, from the SP to the lineup to the bullpen.
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