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  1. #1051

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Battingly View Post
    We should sign Josh Hamilton, he's worth the money, so long as he agrees to a voidable clause if he relapses.

    I'm pretty sure any team that signs him to a mega deal will insist on such a clause.
    100% there will be no such clause.

    Now, a shorter term contract with possible team options is more likely.
    You know they are not real pies, right?

    "I heard Jackie Bradley junior was already voted to the ASG....for the next three years." - NerfBall55 4/4/2013

  2. #1052
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoux101 View Post
    Teams make the payoffs spending less than $80M for their whole team. Much less.
    They do, but not often. Of the 18 teams to make the postseason in the past two years, three of them had opening-day payrolls under $80M - Oakland this year, Tampa Bay and Arizona last year. Tampa Bay, of course, was able to accomplish it based on a model of long-term failure. Oakland and Arizona did it with smoke and mirrors, collapsing teams in their divisions, and a minuscule chance of continued success. Do you really want to put Oakland's lineup out there and take your chances with it in the AL East?

    It's not impossible to do, but it almost always relies on either an influx of top prospects or a whole lot of luck. There's also a big difference between saying "the Yankees should be able to win with a $189M payroll" and "the Yankees should be able to win with $80M for 20 players."
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  3. #1053

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    You can succeed with a payroll around 80-100, but the Yankees are not looking to have a nice 1 year run or a 3 year stretch where they make the playoffs twice. They are trying to make the playoffs every season, and at that goal level you need the kind of money the Yankees have spent.

    There is no reason the Yankees cannot succeed at a lower payroll point, but you have to brace yourself for a Red Sox-type team where they look good, make the playoffs, and it is then followed by some crushing seasons as their decisions which led to the playoffs come around to roost.

    By outspending everyone by 2x when payrolls were smaller, the Yankees could mask roster flaws and replace players even while they were under contract. Won't be able to do that when you're living on a budget that is essentially 40-50 million less than usual.

  4. #1054
    Hello dum-dum... effdamets's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerkface View Post
    You can succeed with a payroll around 80-100, but the Yankees are not looking to have a nice 1 year run or a 3 year stretch where they make the playoffs twice. They are trying to make the playoffs every season, and at that goal level you need the kind of money the Yankees have spent.

    There is no reason the Yankees cannot succeed at a lower payroll point, but you have to brace yourself for a Red Sox-type team where they look good, make the playoffs, and it is then followed by some crushing seasons as their decisions which led to the playoffs come around to roost.

    By outspending everyone by 2x when payrolls were smaller, the Yankees could mask roster flaws and replace players even while they were under contract. Won't be able to do that when you're living on a budget that is essentially 40-50 million less than usual.
    40 to 50 million less, is a bit of an overstatement.
    That would put the Yankee payroll at around 160 million.
    If 189 is the number, you can be sure that the Yankee front office wants to be right up against that number.
    They're not going to waste a single dollar in risk of missing an October.
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

  5. #1055

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    40 to 50 million less, is a bit of an overstatement.
    That would put the Yankee payroll at around 160 million.
    If 189 is the number, you can be sure that the Yankee front office wants to be right up against that number.
    They're not going to waste a single dollar in risk of missing an October.
    It is not really an overstatement, but maybe on the pessimistic end. The Yankees have had payrolls around 220-230 when you include all the things that are counted in the 189 limit. You lop off 11 million right off the bat for benefits, so the true payroll is starting at 178. You then count all the guys on the 40 man who aren't contributing. That is 1-2 million if they don't play in the majors, a bit more if they do. Contracts where they have traded a player and sent cash. The Yankees spend 8 million this season just for AJ Burnett to not pitch for the team.

    At your most optimistic the yankees are dropping 30 million off the payroll. And that is if they are at their most savvy, shrewd, making 100% good moves.

  6. #1056

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    http://riveraveblues.com/2012/11/the...ws-corp-79424/

    cash money? with this deal they prob can get a nice profit from the team and won't need to sell things
    always reasonable

  7. #1057
    Brien "The Incident" just-blaze's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoux101 View Post
    Last year was terrible for Granderson but he has shown the ability to adjust and is only one season removed from everyone wanting his nuts and giving him MVP considerations.

    His homeruns have really nothing to do with Yankees stadium at all. Whenever someone says something about the short rightfield porch just look at the facts. It's pretty easy for anyone to claim and believeable but more often then not, it's just ignorant.

    If you where to look at Granderson's 2011 season. Everyone credited Yankee stadium and the short rightfield for the 40+ homeruns. Funny thing is is you transpose his HR's onto other stadiums, he losses around 2 HR's or some minimal number.

    It might be a good plan to move him, he dosen't realistically fit into the Yankees plans after this year and I'd believe many teams would be interested. This would of course depend on Ichiro signing as well.

    But, if they don't move him and sign Ichiro. I like the idea of a Gardner, Granderson & Ichiro Outfield.
    I like it only if it comes with Hairston or someother 4th OF who can spell Ichiro against tough lefties.
    Fistpumping like a champion.

  8. #1058

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    we need to get billy butler

    .313/.373/.510 last year, career high 29 HRs, right-handed, hits for average, and he's just turned 26.
    contract: 8 mil, 8 mil, and then 12.5 mil team option for 2015

    He'd DH for us, PH for lefties, and occasionally play 1B (we lost our backup 1B in Nick Swisher).

    the Royals probably want pitching, and we have a good bit of ok pitching to trade away.
    like delv, but better

  9. #1059

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Wouldn't mind going after Hector Sanchez from the Giants. Make him the starting catcher. Will be blocked at the Giants by Posey for the next 20 years. Would have to give up something but don't think it would have to be a big piece.

  10. #1060

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by SatchelPaigeYankee View Post
    we need to get billy butler
    And then lay him out on a slab so Robinson Cano's dad can perform some kind of ritual sacrifice on him, with the whole thing broadcast on all channels in the Kansas City viewing area.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  11. #1061
    Brien "The Incident" just-blaze's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by SatchelPaigeYankee View Post
    we need to get billy butler

    .313/.373/.510 last year, career high 29 HRs, right-handed, hits for average, and he's just turned 26.
    contract: 8 mil, 8 mil, and then 12.5 mil team option for 2015

    He'd DH for us, PH for lefties, and occasionally play 1B (we lost our backup 1B in Nick Swisher).

    the Royals probably want pitching, and we have a good bit of ok pitching to trade away.
    Except they just traded for Santana and signed Guthrie. Pass.
    Fistpumping like a champion.

  12. #1062
    NYYF Triple Crown

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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by just-blaze View Post
    Except they just traded for Santana and signed Guthrie. Pass.
    Butler is precisely the kind of offensive player this offense could use. I think the original poster was right. And I don't think KC's acquisition of these two pitchers means they're all set in that department. Whether they're willing to trade Butler at all, and what they'd want in return, is the real question.
    Yankee fan living in Maine.

  13. #1063

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by apalradio View Post
    Butler is precisely the kind of offensive player this offense could use. I think the original poster was right. And I don't think KC's acquisition of these two pitchers means they're all set in that department. Whether they're willing to trade Butler at all, and what they'd want in return, is the real question.
    KC is looking to get an ace back for one of their hitters. Nova or Hughes or Phelps isn't going to cut it. Maybe if Pineda was healthy we could swing a deal with them.

  14. #1064
    NYYF Legend

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHugeUnit2 View Post
    KC is looking to get an ace back for one of their hitters. Nova or Hughes or Phelps isn't going to cut it. Maybe if Pineda was healthy we could swing a deal with them.
    Agreed. I want Butler. But the Yankees don't have the assets to get it done. Teams like the Rays can offer a lot more.

  15. #1065

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by SatchelPaigeYankee View Post
    we need to get billy butler

    .313/.373/.510 last year, career high 29 HRs, right-handed, hits for average, and he's just turned 26.
    contract: 8 mil, 8 mil, and then 12.5 mil team option for 2015

    He'd DH for us, PH for lefties, and occasionally play 1B (we lost our backup 1B in Nick Swisher).

    the Royals probably want pitching, and we have a good bit of ok pitching to trade away.
    Agreed, just don't think the Yanks have the chips to pay for him.
    "It is almost impossible to remember how tragic a place the world is when one is playing golf." -Robert Wilson Lynd



  16. #1066

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    No thanks to Butler. He's a good hitter but doesn't have a position to play with Teixiera occupying first. And if Cashman is serious about building for the future and all indications are that he is, you don't sell the farm to go after a designated hitter. That's just counterproductive.

  17. #1067

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    where's the ridiculous trade proposal thread when ya need it
    like delv, but better

  18. #1068
    Forum Regular
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by SatchelPaigeYankee View Post
    where's the ridiculous trade proposal thread when ya need it
    boom

    http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...rade-Proposals

  19. #1069
    Bazinga Hitman23's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Benefactor View Post
    No thanks to Butler. He's a good hitter but doesn't have a position to play with Teixiera occupying first. And if Cashman is serious about building for the future and all indications are that he is, you don't sell the farm to go after a designated hitter. That's just counterproductive.
    I don't want to say no thanks, but I have to for the reasons you list. Hypothetically he would be a great addition to the team though.
    Thank you, 2013-2014 New York Rangers for a great season!

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  20. #1070

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Benefactor View Post
    No thanks to Butler. He's a good hitter but doesn't have a position to play with Teixiera occupying first. And if Cashman is serious about building for the future and all indications are that he is, you don't sell the farm to go after a designated hitter. That's just counterproductive.
    approximately 1/9th of all your PAs in the year go to the DH, or PHing for the pitcher. it's kind of important. acquiring a valuable 26 yr old DH makes sense, IMO.
    like delv, but better

  21. #1071
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by SatchelPaigeYankee View Post
    approximately 1/9th of all your PAs in the year go to the DH, or PHing for the pitcher. it's kind of important. acquiring a valuable 26 yr old DH makes sense, IMO.
    The problem is that you know the Yankees are going to want to use the DH spot to rest Jeter and A-Rod next year.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  22. #1072

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    The problem is that you know the Yankees are going to want to use the DH spot to rest Jeter and A-Rod next year.
    A LH DH makes sense for this reason. There is no reason to DH Jeter or AROd against RHP

  23. #1073
    Pinpoint False1's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    The problem is that you know the Yankees are going to want to use the DH spot to rest Jeter and A-Rod next year.
    I don't disagree that they'll want to, but I disagree that they should if a better alternative is out there. Barring a bounce back year from A-Rod along with Jeter sustaining his '12 level of production, their bats aren't really potent enough that you simply can't afford to take them out of the lineup. At their ages, what's the harm in getting them a full day off, particularly if there's a bat that can be penciled in at DH for 130+ games that gives you better production (making up in part for the drop in production they'll get when the A-Rod/Jeter subs step up to the plate).

  24. #1074

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by SatchelPaigeYankee View Post
    approximately 1/9th of all your PAs in the year go to the DH, or PHing for the pitcher. it's kind of important. acquiring a valuable 26 yr old DH makes sense, IMO.
    It's possibly going to cost the yankees two high end prospects to get a deal done. Cashman has said over and over again that he isn't interested in a fulltime DH, but rather a rotating one so Girardi has the option to in and out some of his aging veterans. Cashman supposedly got rid of Montero for this reason amongst others. If cashman continues to clown the farm and drain it of its natural resources, the Yankees won't have much of a future to look forward to. Personally, I wouldn't give up the kind of talent and youth it would likely cost the Yankees to bring in a one dimensional player like Butler. Furthermore, 2014 is looming, and I can't see cashman throwing a guaranteed 2/17M and prospects at the DH position when their are so many cheaper alternatives available. Right now, the Yankees should be concentrating on RF and resigning Andy pettitte.

  25. #1075
    Pinpoint False1's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Benefactor View Post
    It's possibly going to cost the yankees two high end prospects to get a deal done. Cashman has said over and over again that he isn't interested in a fulltime DH, but rather a rotating one so Girardi has the option to in and out some of his aging veterans. Cashman supposedly got rid of Montero for this reason amongst others. If cashman continues to clown the farm and drain it of its natural resources, the Yankees won't have much of a future to look forward to. Personally, I wouldn't give up the kind of talent and youth it would likely cost the Yankees to bring in a one dimensional player like Butler. Furthermore, 2014 is looming, and I can't see cashman throwing a guaranteed 2/17M and prospects at the DH position when their are so many cheaper alternatives available. Right now, the Yankees should be concentrating on RF and resigning Andy pettitte.
    Again I agree that is their POV on the DH, although I don't think it's a good strategy if there are other reasonable options out there that fit short/long term goals. For example, if Berkman could be had on a 1 year deal. Or (unlikely, but can dream) if Napoli could be signed for a reasonable deal he could be primary DH, eliminate the need for BUC and emergency 1B.

    But also agree that RF and Pettitte are much higher priorities and that I wouldn't advocate trading top prospects for a DH.

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