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  1. #1001
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerkface View Post
    In terms of the 189 limit Jeter will count as 15.5 if he accepts his option and 9 if he doesn't.
    I know, but that wasn't relevant to the point I was making to JL.

  2. #1002
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Because I looked in the wrong place. I just looked at b-r's payroll listing, which includes only the buyout. You're absolutely right, though. Furthermore, if I read the CBA correctly, a player option year is considered a guaranteed year for calculating AAV (although the Silver Slugger bonus is counted separately for that year). That brings his luxury-tax salary to something just over $16M, so it's at least $90M for four players, plus a second baseman. They'll be lucky to have $80M for the other 20 players.
    If they plan on fielding a good team for 2014, they need some cheap players to go crazy. Or Tex and A-rod to have major rebounds.

  3. #1003

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    If they plan on fielding a good team for 2014, they need some cheap players to go crazy. Or Tex and A-rod to have major rebounds.
    Heathcott & Tyler Austin absolutely tearing up AA & AAA & September in the majors would be a big help

  4. #1004
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerkface View Post
    Catcher is an atrocious position offensively at the moment. It was below league average for all positions. Why spend a premium to meet the specific split of league average for a position that is the third worst in the league being dragged down by the bottom 15 teams & all the terrible backups who get more playing time than other terrible backups when you can potentially spend it to beat the overall league average? There is no guarantee he bounces back. His K rate increased and he is getting older. His avg & obp have declined for 4 straight years. Not worth investing 3 years on.
    positional production is relevant, because they're not going to sign a RF or 3B to catch. So they'll compare what they project of Martin to his available peer group when placing a value on retaining his services. There is no guarantee on anything in baseball. There are few practical alternatives. I agree that a 3/$24MM or some of the higher end estimates here are probably more than they should invest. But who are these "investments" to which you refer that can both beat league avg OBP and match his defense and be more fiscally attractive?

    His 10% walk rate is the only thing propping up his OBP to below league average (league average for catchers), but the fact is his OBP is not 'extreme' or anything like that. THe Yankees should not be going after guys who still put up below average OBP even with 10% walk rates. Walking a lot when your average is so low is great, but its not preferable to a guy with a higher OBP.
    so what would you propose? And please don't give the stock answer of "I'm not the GM" that some toss out.

  5. #1005
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerkface View Post
    Heathcott & Tyler Austin absolutely tearing up AA & AAA & September in the majors would be a big help
    Yeah, that's exactly what the Yanks need. I hope one of them pans out.

  6. #1006
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    If they plan on fielding a good team for 2014, they need some cheap players to go crazy. Or Tex and A-rod to have major rebounds.
    Probably both actually. A strong year from Gardner would help.

  7. #1007

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Is the payroll for 2014 calculated on opening day?
    EvilEmpireDC: Fans bitch about anything lol

  8. #1008

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    positional production is relevant, because they're not going to sign a RF or 3B to catch. So they'll compare what they project of Martin to his available peer group when placing a value on retaining his services. There is no guarantee on anything in baseball. There are few practical alternatives. I agree that a 3/$24MM or some of the higher end estimates here are probably more than they should invest. But who are these "investments" to which you refer that can both beat league avg OBP and match his defense and be more fiscally attractive?

    so what would you propose? And please don't give the stock answer of "I'm not the GM" that some toss out.
    Sorry on that first point I mean I'd rather they spend the money on another position. They have dumdums like Chris Stewart (top 60 catcher in baseball!) and all-glove catchers are easy to find. I'd rather they spend 8 million on RF, where you can potentially get an .800 OPS player for that amount.

    Well I would rather have spent 8 million on Melky to man RF than Martin to man catcher. That is out the window now though. I would have signed David Ross & then looked for another player to platoon with him from the right side. That is also out the window. If Martin were left handed I'd be way more open to locking him up, but his best split is against lefties who they face only 1/3rd of the time.

  9. #1009

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    Is the payroll for 2014 calculated on opening day?
    Middle of December 2014.

  10. #1010
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Considering the high prices on the FA center fielders, you wonder if teams will start calling NYY on Granderson, who has one-yr., $15m deal.
    https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/stat...56557601816576

    Just thinking out loud. Move Gardner to CF. The Yankees won't be able to afford Granderson after next season. They don't have room for another big contract with the current commitments past 2013(AROD,Tex and CC) and paying Cano.

    And what of Curtis Granderson, perhaps the biggest liability of all in the Yankees’ strikeout-prone lineup? His 43 homers aside, at the recent GM meetings, one American League GM said this of Granderson: “I can’t believe how he’s regressed as a hitter. He’s lost. The only explanation is that short porch in right field at Yankee Stadium. He became fixated on it and hitting home runs and it’s ruined him
    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...#ixzz2ChMz2R10

  11. #1011
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by TheScooter View Post
    https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/stat...56557601816576

    Just thinking out loud. Move Gardner to CF. The Yankees won't be able to afford Granderson after next season. They don't have room for another big contract with the current commitments past 2013(AROD,Tex and CC) and paying Cano.



    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...#ixzz2ChMz2R10
    Yes, 43 homers is total ruination. He should just retire.
    Masahiro Tanaka, 24-0 in 2013. He's the Japanese Jack Bauer.

  12. #1012
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerkface View Post
    In terms of the 189 limit Jeter will count as 15.5 if he accepts his option and 9 if he doesn't.
    I believe if he accepts the option, his salary counts as $14.75M - 4 years, $59M - plus $1.5M for having won a Silver Slugger, which is not spread out over the length of the contract.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  13. #1013

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I believe if he accepts the option, his salary counts as $14.75M - 4 years, $59M - plus $1.5M for having won a Silver Slugger, which is not spread out over the length of the contract.
    Its 56/4 + 1.5 for the Silver Slugger. Because it is a player option the buyout does not count in the total, but will count if he declines (as well as the back pay the yankees will owe which is why it will be 9 total if he declines).

  14. #1014

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by TheScooter View Post
    https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/stat...56557601816576

    Just thinking out loud. Move Gardner to CF. The Yankees won't be able to afford Granderson after next season. They don't have room for another big contract with the current commitments past 2013(AROD,Tex and CC) and paying Cano.



    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...#ixzz2ChMz2R10
    "His 43 homers aside" is a hilarious phrase. The Yankees' 27 championships aside, they haven't had much success.

  15. #1015
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Phelps and Nunez

    Eric Karabell of ESPN wrote about them

    New York Yankees: It's not bold enough to say Mariano Rivera (knee) returns and saves 40 games, though he will. What else can I say? That Phil Hughes allows 40 homers? That's totally believable, but I'll say David Phelps holds down a rotation slot and provides 175 innings with a 3.75 ERA. He's better than most realize.
    http://insider.espn.go.com/fantasy/b...edictions-2013

    New York Yankees: New leadoff hitter and center fielder Brett Gardner hits .300 and steals 52 bases, making him a draft-day steal. Meanwhile, Eduardo Nunez finds his way to 400 at-bats at various positions and steals 34 bags.
    http://insider.espn.go.com/fantasy/b...edictions-2013

    Yankees would sign up for that production from Nunez and Phelps right now. Gardner too.

  16. #1016
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by pleasepassthesoup View Post
    "His 43 homers aside" is a hilarious phrase. The Yankees' 27 championships aside, they haven't had much success.
    43 Homers is a ton, but I can see why people/fans are down on him.

    Wayy too many K's, unproductive outs, and a horrible OBP...

    Lets just say I wouldn't cry if Granderson was to get moved somewhere.

  17. #1017
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by JOBA RULES View Post
    43 Homers is a ton, but I can see why people/fans are down on him.

    Wayy too many K's, unproductive outs, and a horrible OBP...

    Lets just say I wouldn't cry if Granderson was to get moved somewhere.
    I wouldn't cry either, but we better be getting either a good young pitcher, or a good young left fielder back.
    Masahiro Tanaka, 24-0 in 2013. He's the Japanese Jack Bauer.

  18. #1018
    This is our future. JohnnyDamonfan's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by bcom33 View Post
    I wouldn't cry either, but we better be getting either a good young pitcher, or a good young left fielder back.
    Don't worry we probably would we might even get both depending on what your definition is for "Good" Granderson probably won't be traded till the ASB though.
    Still and will always be a New England Patriots fan.


    [quote=THEBOSS84]You may be my favorite poster on the site. So sweet and innocent.[/quote]

  19. #1019

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    We should sign Josh Hamilton, he's worth the money, so long as he agrees to a voidable clause if he relapses.

    I'm pretty sure any team that signs him to a mega deal will insist on such a clause.
    "Owning the Yankees is like owning the Mona Lisa." -- George M. Steinbrenner III

  20. #1020
    The gerbil lives Zimmers' Helmet's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by bcom33 View Post
    I wouldn't cry either, but we better be getting either a good young pitcher, or a good young left fielder back.
    Would be awesome to swing a deal for Ian Kennedy and Austin Jackson - oh wait...
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  21. #1021
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerkface View Post
    Its 56/4 + 1.5 for the Silver Slugger. Because it is a player option the buyout does not count in the total, but will count if he declines (as well as the back pay the yankees will owe which is why it will be 9 total if he declines).
    Exactly so. My calculations were lazy as hell today. Thanks for the correction.

    The point is still the same: it's easy to say "the Yankees should be competitive with a $189M payroll" until you realize that 5 players will account for close to $110M.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  22. #1022

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Battingly View Post
    We should sign Josh Hamilton, he's worth the money, so long as he agrees to a voidable clause if he relapses.

    I'm pretty sure any team that signs him to a mega deal will insist on such a clause.
    and im 100% sure that will never happen

  23. #1023
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by nnysiny View Post
    and im 100% sure that will never happen
    Yeah, the penalties for drug use are already set by collective bargaining. That won't be superseded.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  24. #1024

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    If they plan on fielding a good team for 2014, they need some cheap players to go crazy. Or Tex and A-rod to have major rebounds.
    I think they are going to punt on that year.

    The sins of the past payroll decisions are going to haunt this team for a few years under Hal's fiscal responsibility. He's not wrong for wanting it, but the team's foolish spending in past years makes it hard for him to get his way AND the team to improve.

  25. #1025
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by justtxyank View Post
    I think they are going to punt on that year.

    The sins of the past payroll decisions are going to haunt this team for a few years under Hal's fiscal responsibility. He's not wrong for wanting it, but the team's foolish spending in past years makes it hard for him to get his way AND the team to improve.
    While I totally agree, it's really his fault. At least partly.
    A-Rod?
    Soriano?
    Tex?
    CC?
    Those weren't GSIII's doing.

    Hal needs to keep that skunkstool, Levine, in check.
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

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