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  1. #401

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by skyblue17 View Post
    Think there's a chance that Swisher would go to LA in a deal for Ethier? I'm one of the few who isn't eager to see Swisher go, but with his personal ties in LA, I imagine that'd be a setup he wouldn't sneeze at.
    Swisher isn't under contract
    Don't tease me, you know what I do for a living.

  2. #402

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by philleotardo View Post
    Swisher isn't under contract
    Oh, right. I knew that, duh.

  3. #403

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeefan3783 View Post
    Hypothetically speaking (or typing):

    Next season, Granderson puts up another 40+ home runs, while batting around .250. Ellsbury puts up numbers close to his 2011 season and stays healthy. Both will be free agents at the end of the season, which CF should the Yankees go for?

    Also, rumors have it that Ellsbury wants out of Boston, so it's likely he will test free agency. Knowing this, maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to deal Granderson this off season. I'm not sure what the Yankees can get for him (or what they would want), but I have to believe a 40+ home run centerfielder has good value, despite being on the last year of his contract.
    If healthy and back to "form," (those are somewhat big ifs) then it's easily Ellsbury, by about 1023948203948203 light years over Granderson (that is actually mathematically factual). Ellsbury is younger (2.5 years), better defender, faster, better OBP, better average, better slugging, and about half as many strikeouts. Ellsbury lead the league in plate appearances in '11, and still only had 98 strikeouts. He had an 8.0 WAR. Granderson in '11 was only a 5.4, and that was his best WAR season.

    The thing is, if Ellsbury does return to his insane 2011 form, his price would likely be too high for the Yankees. He'll be looking at a 7+ year deal for well over $100M. The days of the Yankees signing $100M long term deals are over. If he doesn't return to that form, I'm not sure I'd be interested in a 30 year old who's an injury concern and only really has that one outstanding season that may never be repeated.

  4. #404

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyTheJetRodriguez View Post
    I'd love Berkman, but he hits home runs, which according to many Yankee fans is bad.
    I'd love to see where anyone ever said hitting home runs is bad or in any way detrimental. Love to see it.

  5. #405

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    I'd love to see where anyone ever said hitting home runs is bad or in any way detrimental. Love to see it.
    I'd love to see that too. My biggest complaint with Berkman is that along with his homers, he makes too much contact with the ball and gets on base too often. Boo. His BA, OBP, OPS and OPS+ are way too high for my liking. So un-Yankee like!


  6. #406

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    This whole "people hate homers" meme has gotten to the point of it being idiotic. No one hates them, people just want more of a well rounded offense as opposed to the HR or Bust team that got embarrassed in the ALCS.

  7. #407
    Big Poppa dabomb2045's Avatar
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax Teller View Post
    This whole "people hate homers" meme has gotten to the point of it being idiotic. No one hates them, people just want more of a well rounded offense as opposed to the HR or Bust team that got embarrassed in the ALCS.
    Thank you. As always, you are one of the better posters on the board. This is exactly how I feel and I know many other posters (such as AuroraBomberalis) feel the same way about wanting a well rounded lineup. Of course like you said, when we point this out....we are all made out to be idiots who want a lineup full of Juan Pierre's.

  8. #408
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax Teller View Post
    This whole "people hate homers" meme has gotten to the point of it being idiotic. No one hates them, people just want more of a well rounded offense as opposed to the HR or Bust team that got embarrassed in the ALCS.
    Yes, another thank you from here. All summer long, posters who would comment on the lack of any offensive dimension other than the HR were derided and dismissed. None of us "hate homers". The whole mischaracterization of that point of view was silly.
    Yankee fan living in Maine.

  9. #409
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Besides Granderson, Ibanez and Jones, which Yankee can be classified as All HR or nothing hitter ?

  10. #410

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    Besides Granderson, Ibanez and Jones, which Yankee can be classified as All HR or nothing hitter ?
    I'm sure people would have put Tex in that category, at least until he showed up to the playoffs as a reliable singles hitter. Swisher too.

    The reason I say this is, I don't think people are judging by outcomes only (Granderson being the closest we have to an Adam-Dunn "three outcomes" hitter, though for him it's two). They're judging by approach and complaining of players who refuse to take advantage of defensive shifts, overswing, and are easily dispatched with off-speed junk on the outer half of the plate.

    The "people hate homers" meme really should be put to rest. Maybe the meme should be "people hate guys whose success comes mostly from guessing fastball and crushing mistakes."
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  11. #411
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    I get the dislike of the "people hate HR" comments that get tossed around. No one is saying they hate HR; it's a tongue in cheek response to some pretty equally ridiculous comments from other posters throughout the year though. I mean, the discussion has been pretty circular:
    • Fan X: The Yankee offense is HR or nothing. They can't get on base.
    • Fan Y: They led the AL in OBP.
    • Fan X: Yeah, but they suck with RISP.
    • Fan Y: They were fourth in the AL with RISP and only Texas delivered meaningfully more runs from RISP situations.
    • Fan X: Well, they don't make productive outs and can't get runners home from third with less than two outs. They've failed the last 7 times in a row in that scenario!
    • Fan Y: They were .297 / .351 / .538 (!!) in those scenarios.
    • Fan X: Yeah, but that's only because they bunch those stats up in blowouts and then vaporize in the games between.
    • Fan Y: I'd love to see the analysis that shows this is unique to this offense.
    • Fan X: [crickets]
    • Fan Z: In before the "SECOND IN RUNS SCORED" lolz
    • Fan X: Right? I'd gladly trade 15 Granderson HR for some additional points of BA.

      blah blah blah

  12. #412
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by skyblue17 View Post
    Think there's a chance that Swisher would go to LA in a deal for Ethier? I'm one of the few who isn't eager to see Swisher go, but with his personal ties in LA, I imagine that'd be a setup he wouldn't sneeze at and they are one of the teams that could probably pay him as close to what he wants as he's gonna get.
    Since Swisher is not under contract, I'm going to go with a big resounding NO.

    edit - do'h one again I should read the thread before positing I see this has been covered multiple times.
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  13. #413
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    I get the dislike of the "people hate HR" comments that get tossed around. No one is saying they hate HR; it's a tongue in cheek response to some pretty equally ridiculous comments from other posters throughout the year though. I mean, the discussion has been pretty circular:
    • Fan X: The Yankee offense is HR or nothing. They can't get on base.
    • Fan Y: They led the AL in OBP.
    • Fan X: Yeah, but they suck with RISP.
    • Fan Y: They were fourth in the AL with RISP and only Texas delivered meaningfully more runs from RISP situations.
    • Fan X: Well, they don't make productive outs and can't get runners home from third with less than two outs. They've failed the last 7 times in a row in that scenario!
    • Fan Y: They were .297 / .351 / .538 (!!) in those scenarios.
    • Fan X: Yeah, but that's only because they bunch those stats up in blowouts and then vaporize in the games between.
    • Fan Y: I'd love to see the analysis that shows this is unique to this offense.
    • Fan X: [crickets]
    • Fan Z: In before the "SECOND IN RUNS SCORED" lolz
    • Fan X: Right? I'd gladly trade 15 Granderson HR for some additional points of BA.

      blah blah blah


    OK, but then explain why what has been a mega offense has only won it all once in a decade?

    My thoughts: it isn't the offense that's failing, it's the pitching (beside--mostly---CC). Are there stats on our PS pitching? Starting? MR?
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  14. #414
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Tifoso View Post


    OK, but then explain why what has been a mega offense has only won it all once in a decade?

    My thoughts: it isn't the offense that's failing, it's the pitching (beside--mostly---CC). Are there stats on our PS pitching? Starting? MR?
    Pitching wasn't eactly the problem this post season. Except maybe CC in G4 of the ALCS.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  15. #415
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    I think you can put Martin in the category of "all or nothing" hitter. There were a bunch of times in the playoffs he'd swing for the fences when a single would do.


    I think having Brett Gardner and Ichiro (if they decide to go that route) would do well for a full year. I just want to plug in somebody at 3B to let Alex DH.

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  16. #416

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by dabomb2045 View Post
    Thank you. As always, you are one of the better posters on the board. This is exactly how I feel and I know many other posters (such as AuroraBomberalis) feel the same way about wanting a well rounded lineup. Of course like you said, when we point this out....we are all made out to be idiots who want a lineup full of Juan Pierre's.
    If you feel like an idiot when people disagree with you, that's your problem.
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  17. #417
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Pitching wasn't eactly the problem this post season. Except maybe CC in G4 of the ALCS.
    Yup. But in the long term.
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  18. #418
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    I would just love to see the Yankees pull off a trade where they get a young hitter who's cost controlled for a long time.

    Like if they had a 20 year old catcher who showed flashes of power...


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  19. #419

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGameEpisode2 View Post
    I would just love to see the Yankees pull off a trade where they get a young hitter who's cost controlled for a long time.

    Like if they had a 20 year old catcher who showed flashes of power...

    You talking about Gary Sanchez?

  20. #420
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHugeUnit2 View Post
    You talking about Gary Sanchez?
    Would have been nice to have both (you know who I'm talking about), tbh.

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  21. #421
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGameEpisode2 View Post
    I would just love to see the Yankees pull off a trade where they get a young hitter who's cost controlled for a long time.

    Like if they had a 20 year old catcher who showed flashes of power...

    He'll be 23 next year and just cam eoff a 95 OPS+ seasons. He may still be that once in a greneration hitter that some hoped for but only time will tell. Personally I'd rather have a cost controlled flame throwing young pitcher, prefereably without shoulder trouble. But that bridge has sailed.
    Baseball is life;
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  22. #422

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    He'll be 23 next year and just cam eoff a 95 OPS+ seasons. He may still be that once in a greneration hitter that some hoped for but only time will tell. Personally I'd rather have a cost controlled flame throwing young pitcher, prefereably without shoulder trouble. But that bridge has sailed.
    Yeah I looked up Montero's age when he said that. Seems like just last year he signed as a 16 year old. I wish Montero to have a hall of fame type path in baseball, but you have to do that trade when it's presented to you. Nothing to be sour about when you have a guy with Pineda's potentional and even Campos, then Sanchez coming up as well.

  23. #423
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    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    He'll be 23 next year and just cam eoff a 95 OPS+ seasons. He may still be that once in a greneration hitter that some hoped for but only time will tell. Personally I'd rather have a cost controlled flame throwing young pitcher, prefereably without shoulder trouble. But that bridge has sailed.
    To be fair he was a much different hitter on the road than at SAFECO. Not an amazing hitter, but if you put him at YS and he probably puts up better numbers.


    I agree to an extent...but the evidence of Pineda wearing down was right in front of the Yankees with his second half numbers and his FB velocity down. If you're gonna trade Montero you gotta get something more reliable imo.

    But that's water under the bridge now. Just don't want them to make a similar mistake.


    And yeah, I'm shocked he's 23 already. I still think of him as the 19 year old tearing up the minor leagues.

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  24. #424

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGameEpisode2 View Post
    To be fair he was a much different hitter on the road than at SAFECO. Not an amazing hitter, but if you put him at YS and he probably puts up better numbers.


    I agree to an extent...but the evidence of Pineda wearing down was right in front of the Yankees with his second half numbers and his FB velocity down. If you're gonna trade Montero you gotta get something more reliable imo.

    But that's water under the bridge now. Just don't want them to make a similar mistake.


    And yeah, I'm shocked he's 23 already. I still think of him as the 19 year old tearing up the minor leagues.
    That's not exactly true. His second half numbers were skewed by his final start, which he made after sitting for 11 days.
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  25. #425

    Re: New York Yankees 2012-2013 Offseason Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    I get the dislike of the "people hate HR" comments that get tossed around. No one is saying they hate HR; it's a tongue in cheek response to some pretty equally ridiculous comments from other posters throughout the year though. I mean, the discussion has been pretty circular:
    • Fan X: The Yankee offense is HR or nothing. They can't get on base.
    • Fan Y: They led the AL in OBP.
    • Fan X: Yeah, but they suck with RISP.
    • Fan Y: They were fourth in the AL with RISP and only Texas delivered meaningfully more runs from RISP situations.
    • Fan X: Well, they don't make productive outs and can't get runners home from third with less than two outs. They've failed the last 7 times in a row in that scenario!
    • Fan Y: They were .297 / .351 / .538 (!!) in those scenarios.
    • Fan X: Yeah, but that's only because they bunch those stats up in blowouts and then vaporize in the games between.
    • Fan Y: I'd love to see the analysis that shows this is unique to this offense.
    • Fan X: [crickets]
    • Fan Z: In before the "SECOND IN RUNS SCORED" lolz
    • Fan X: Right? I'd gladly trade 15 Granderson HR for some additional points of BA.

      blah blah blah
    Yup. Also idiotic is the thought that the Yankee championship teams did it with "timely hitting". Those teams won, for the most part, by getting people on base, hitting home runs, and pitching well.

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