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  1. #51

    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Big_E View Post
    The scholarship limit (65) makes them essentially an FCS team, and we know how well they do against FBS schools most times (App State over Michigan a notable exception), especially when playing schools from the BCS conferences.
    After all the transfers, they may be playing less than 65 scholarship players.

    But you're right, this is basically going to be 4 years of an FCS quality roster in a major BCS conference. Its going to get very, very ugly for them.

  2. #52

    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    they are clarifying on ESPN

    Basically they are now capped at 65 scholarships and they can get only 20 players (30 allowed now) a year.

    That's what the 10 "initial" means. The scholarship cap is reduced by 20 from 85 to 65.

  3. #53
    My photograph. Soriambi's Avatar
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    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by CanoForPresident View Post
    After all the transfers, they may be playing less than 65 scholarship players.

    But you're right, this is basically going to be 4 years of an FCS quality roster in a major BCS conference. Its going to get very, very ugly for them.
    You really think it's going to be an FCS quality roster? I'd think that they'll still be able to draw much better talent than FCS teams, since they're still a team that's going to have a significant TV presence, etc.
    -Kevin

    "My point is you can't compare things with statistics." Joe Morgan


    RIP, Pete.

  4. #54
    Sunny days ahead YankeePride1967's Avatar
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    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Soriambi View Post
    Another thing to consider is that the penalties will go far beyond this. There's no telling how much the loss in prestige and reputation of the university, and the pressure from family and friends not go to to Penn State will impact future recruiting, or how much it will hurt fundraising for the university.
    To me, that is going to be the thing that will hurt them the most.
    Life is good!

  5. #55
    #notonemore Big_E's Avatar
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    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Soriambi View Post
    The difference, though, is that since Penn State is a FBS school and is Penn State, the 65 players on scholarship that they do have will probably be of significantly higher quality than the 65 players on an FCS team. even with top notch players avoiding them. Even if they're attracting a lot of three star talent or top two star talent with a couple four stars thrown in here and there, etc, that's going to be better than what any FCS teams are getting.
    But why would anyone with an offer from another BCS school go to Penn State? No chance at a bowl game, no chance at a National Championship, and probably an increased chance of injury thanks to lesser talent around them.

    I think they will get guys whose other options are App State, Delaware, Montana, etc. If I was a prospect and had a chance to play ANYWHERE at FBS, and got an offer to Penn State, it would be tough to spend the next four years getting my ass kicked in Happy Valley versus anywhere else.

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  6. #56
    #notonemore Big_E's Avatar
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    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Soriambi View Post
    You really think it's going to be an FCS quality roster? I'd think that they'll still be able to draw much better talent than FCS teams, since they're still a team that's going to have a significant TV presence, etc.
    If your choice is Montana or Penn State, yeah you probably go to Penn State. If your choice is Penn State or UL-Lafayette, you might be going to the Ragin' Cajuns.

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  7. #57

    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Soriambi View Post
    You really think it's going to be an FCS quality roster? I'd think that they'll still be able to draw much better talent than FCS teams, since they're still a team that's going to have a significant TV presence, etc.
    I strongly agree with this. I think they got a mountain to climb but with still 65 scholarship spots, they still have a non-zero chance to compete.

  8. #58
    #notonemore Big_E's Avatar
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    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    I strongly agree with this. I think they got a mountain to climb but with still 65 scholarship spots, they still have a non-zero chance to compete.
    2 years from now, put them against one of the top teams from the SoCon and see how they do...I wouldn't bet against the SoCon team.

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  9. #59

    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Soriambi View Post
    You really think it's going to be an FCS quality roster? I'd think that they'll still be able to draw much better talent than FCS teams, since they're still a team that's going to have a significant TV presence, etc.
    If they are, I don't think they'll be much better than one.

    TV presence or not, I can't imagine too many people will want to walk into such a toxic environment.

  10. #60
    #notonemore Big_E's Avatar
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    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    On top of which, when you graduate, you might have to explain to a potential employer who Appalachian State is, or if they're strong academically, but you'll never have to defend your decision to go there. Go to Penn State after this, and people might look at you a little funny, until it fades a little.

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  11. #61

    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Big_E View Post
    2 years from now, put them against one of the top teams from the SoCon and see how they do...I wouldn't bet against the SoCon team.
    Oh, I am with you. I just don't think it's zero%. All they need is to luckbox into a brainwashed PSU cultist that happens to be a generational QB or RB talent.

    Big10 just took away PSU's bowl revenues (13m) and will donate it to charity. Also made PSU ineligible for b1g title game.

  12. #62
    #notonemore Big_E's Avatar
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    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    Oh, I am with you. I just don't think it's zero%. All they need is to luckbox into a brainwashed PSU cultist that happens to be a generational QB or RB talent.
    true, but you still need a decent front 5 to block for you or you're going to spend a lot of time with your ass hitting the turf.

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  13. #63

    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Big_E View Post
    true, but you still need a decent front 5 to block for you or you're going to spend a lot of time with your ass hitting the turf.
    They can get that anyway with 65 scholarships. The problem is depth. Like I said, it's very unlikely but I'd prefer the number to be closer to zero (15 initial 30 from cap should do the job. that ensures even top of the depth chart has non-scholarship players)

  14. #64
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    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    They can get that anyway with 65 scholarships. The problem is depth. Like I said, it's very unlikely but I'd prefer the number to be closer to zero (15 initial 30 from cap should do the job. that ensures even top of the depth chart has non-scholarship players)
    The lost scholarships also make each scholarship that much more valuable. If you're going to compete at a high level, you need to "hit" on a massive number of those scholarships. You can't have many busts. I agree that something like 15-30 would have been better.
    -Kevin

    "My point is you can't compare things with statistics." Joe Morgan


    RIP, Pete.

  15. #65
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
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    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    Typically, when a school gets in deep trouble with the NCAA, student athletes are involved with the problem. Usually, it involves illegal 'favors' or cash payments that players are receiving, the school knows about, and covers up. In such cases, you need to punish both the students and the school, and send the word throughout the NCAA that such actions won't be tolerated.

    Penn State is different. The problem was 100% at the administrative level. There was no complicity on the part of the student athletes.

    So, they needed to come up with a way to punish Penn State without simultaneously punishing the students. I think they did. By allowing a mass exodus of current Penn State players, they slapped the school's administration (and the school's checkbook) without damaging the students.

    I've long respected Joe Paterno. His athletes actually attended class and graduated. He contributed a lot to the academic side of the University. He represented what college sports was supposed to be about, unlike 99% of college coaches. How he could overlook child abuse out of loyalty to a friend and assistant defies explanation. Has anyone ever descended from Sainthood to scum so quickly? What a massive and unnecessary disappointment.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
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  16. #66

    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    These guys think they got nothing with it.

    This is why vacating the wins (though I think letting wins stand do more to remind us of this... lesson) is a great move. It punishes only the most diehard fans that made this crap possible.





    Meanwhile, they'll continue in denial


  17. #67
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    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Typically, when a school gets in deep trouble with the NCAA, student athletes are involved with the problem. Usually, it involves illegal 'favors' or cash payments that players are receiving, the school knows about, and covers up. In such cases, you need to punish both the students and the school, and send the word throughout the NCAA that such actions won't be tolerated.

    Penn State is different. The problem was 100% at the administrative level. There was no complicity on the part of the student athletes.

    So, they needed to come up with a way to punish Penn State without simultaneously punishing the students. I think they did. By allowing a mass exodus of current Penn State players, they slapped the school's administration (and the school's checkbook) without damaging the students.

    I've long respected Joe Paterno. His athletes actually attended class and graduated. He contributed a lot to the academic side of the University. He represented what college sports was supposed to be about, unlike 99% of college coaches. How he could overlook child abuse out of loyalty to a friend and assistant defies explanation. Has anyone ever descended from Sainthood to scum so quickly? What a massive and unnecessary disappointment.
    Do you think he overlooked it out of loyalty to his friend, though? I think it's just as likely, if not moreso, that he ignored it because his own reputation and that of his program was more important to him than what was going on. I'm also not sure if overlooked or ignored is the right word. If he was convincing administrators not to go to the police, he was actively enabling it.

    I've had the same thought, of Sainthood to scum. I can't think of anyone else who fell that quickly in any field. Even a Tiger Woods had a lot of people who didn't like him. I don't know if you could find many people at all at this time last year who had anything but respect and admiration for Paterno, and today, I don't think you can find too many outside of Happy Valley who have any respect or admiration for him.
    -Kevin

    "My point is you can't compare things with statistics." Joe Morgan


    RIP, Pete.

  18. #68

    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Typically, when a school gets in deep trouble with the NCAA, student athletes are involved with the problem. Usually, it involves illegal 'favors' or cash payments that players are receiving, the school knows about, and covers up. In such cases, you need to punish both the students and the school, and send the word throughout the NCAA that such actions won't be tolerated.

    Penn State is different. The problem was 100% at the administrative level. There was no complicity on the part of the student athletes.

    So, they needed to come up with a way to punish Penn State without simultaneously punishing the students. I think they did. By allowing a mass exodus of current Penn State players, they slapped the school's administration (and the school's checkbook) without damaging the students.

    I've long respected Joe Paterno. His athletes actually attended class and graduated. He contributed a lot to the academic side of the University. He represented what college sports was supposed to be about, unlike 99% of college coaches. How he could overlook child abuse out of loyalty to a friend and assistant defies explanation. Has anyone ever descended from Sainthood to scum so quickly? What a massive and unnecessary disappointment.
    He lost his way and what he and Penn State should have stood for. He probably should've retired in 1998.
    Please fire Cashman, so some Yankee fans can have hope again.

  19. #69

    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    He lost his way and what he and Penn State should have stood for. He probably should've retired in 1998.
    No, he should have done the right thing and kicked Sandusky off campus.

  20. #70
    Sunny days ahead YankeePride1967's Avatar
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    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    I was perusing a few Penn State message boards and needless to say there are quite a few people that should get their priorities in order.
    Life is good!

  21. #71

    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    No, he should have done the right thing and kicked Sandusky off campus.
    Which is why he should have retired because he stayed too long when he didn't know how to do the right thing.
    Please fire Cashman, so some Yankee fans can have hope again.

  22. #72

    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Soriambi View Post
    The lost scholarships also make each scholarship that much more valuable. If you're going to compete at a high level, you need to "hit" on a massive number of those scholarships. You can't have many busts. I agree that something like 15-30 would have been better.
    I don't think the hit rate here matters that much. Its going to be awfully tough (impossible) to have enough "hits" with the limited number they have plus the overall perception of Penn State. They're not going to be bringing in 10-15 players that are highly coveted by everyone, they're going to be taking commitments from players who would be walk ons at most other major programs.

    I don't think some of you understand how big of a deal having only 65 max scholarship players is.

  23. #73

    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by CanoForPresident View Post
    I don't think the hit rate here matters that much. Its going to be awfully tough (impossible) to have enough "hits" with the limited number they have plus the overall perception of Penn State. They're not going to be bringing in 10-15 players that are highly coveted by everyone, they're going to be taking commitments from players who would be walk ons at most other major programs.

    I don't think some of you understand how big of a deal having only 65 max scholarship players is.
    What is USC max scholarship number? Luckily, they don't have to deal with bowl restriction any longer and that Barkley remained loyal to the university.
    Please fire Cashman, so some Yankee fans can have hope again.

  24. #74

    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    What is USC max scholarship number? Luckily, they don't have to deal with bowl restriction any longer and that Barkley remained loyal to the university.
    75 and we are not without some depth issues. We had a much, much better talent base than PSU had at the time of the penalties and have arguably recruited better than we ever did in the PC years since then but those problems are still there. Penn State will never have that luxury.

    Which is why I don't understand why people are saying Penn State didn't get punished enough. If you wanted the death of Penn State fooball, you pretty much got that.

  25. #75

    Re: Unprecedented Penalties to be Issued to Penn State Tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by CanoForPresident View Post
    75 and we are not without some depth issues. We had a much, much better talent base than PSU had at the time of the penalties and have arguably recruited better than we ever did in the PC years since then but those problems are still there. Penn State will never have that luxury.

    Which is why I don't understand why people are saying Penn State didn't get punished enough. If you wanted the death of Penn State fooball, you pretty much got that.
    I agree, it will take that program 10 years to get back to what it once was, if ever.

    As to USC, Kiffen and his staff have done a great job keeping that program focus throughout their troubles that will still continue for the next couple of years.
    Please fire Cashman, so some Yankee fans can have hope again.

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