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Thread: 2012 MVP Race

  1. #376

    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by madjack View Post
    In 1941, would you have given the MVP to Ted Williams over Joe D?
    Yes, because he provided more total value, not because he happened to have a lot of RBIs.

  2. #377
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    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by madjack View Post
    In 1941, would you have given the MVP to Ted Williams over Joe D?
    He had a much better year. Yes I would have. I think I had the argument with someone before in another part of the forum. His AVE was 50 points higher, his OBP was 110 points higher and his SLG was 90 points higher than Joe D. But you know Joe had a weird statistical anomoly of hitting in 56 games straight that got him the MVP. Joe's defense was good but not good enough to over come a 200 point gap in OPS.
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  3. #378

    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    He had a much better year. Yes I would have. I think I had the argument with someone before in another part of the forum. His AVE was 50 points higher, his OBP was 110 points higher and his SLG was 90 points higher than Joe D. But you know Joe had a weird statistical anomoly of hitting in 56 games straight that got him the MVP. Joe's defense was good but not good enough to over come a 200 point gap in OPS.
    This is actually pretty analogous with the current situation. DiMaggio won the MVP because of a fluky and arbitrary accomplishment, despite Williams providing much more value.

  4. #379
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    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by RenoHightower View Post
    Yes, because he provided more total value, not because he happened to have a lot of RBIs.
    Actually RBIs was the one offensive cat where Joe D beat Williams, 125 to 120. Well that and stolen bases where Joe D doubled Teddy ballgames 2.
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  5. #380
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    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    I don't think, either, Trout or Cabrera is a bad choice.

  6. #381
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    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by RenoHightower View Post
    This is actually pretty analogous with the current situation. DiMaggio won the MVP because of a fluky and arbitrary accomplishment, despite Williams providing much more value.
    The Yankees went on an absolute tear when the streak started. They were 5-8 in May, and finished the month 13-13. Then in June and July they were 19-7, and 25-4. I am pretty sure Joe contributed to quite a few of those wins. The Yankees pretty much won the pennant because of the streak.

  7. #382
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    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by RenoHightower View Post
    This is actually pretty analogous with the current situation. DiMaggio won the MVP because of a fluky and arbitrary accomplishment, despite Williams providing much more value.
    Joe D did have a 8.6 WAR to Williams 10.1 so the gap was much closer. Joe's team like Miggy's also finished in 1st place, but unlike Miggy whose team won fewer than Trout's, Joes team was 17 games ahead of the splendid splinter. So there was that.

    Plus I don't thing they were tracking WAR on the internet back then
    Baseball is life;
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  8. #383

    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Joe D did have a 8.6 WAR to Williams 10.1 so the gap was much closer. Joes team like Miggy's also finished in 1st place, 17 games ahead of the splendid splinter. So there was that.
    Oddly enough, Ted's Red Sox had a higher winning percentage that year than Miggy's Tigers.

  9. #384

    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by madjack View Post
    The Yankees went on an absolute tear when the streak started. They were 5-8 in May, and finished the month 13-13. Then in June and July they were 19-7, and 25-4. I am pretty sure Joe contributed to quite a few of those wins. The Yankees pretty much won the pennant because of the streak.
    They won the AL by 17 games. You think that if DiMaggio had sprinkled a couple of 0-fers in there, they wouldn't have won the pennant?

  10. #385
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    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by MTYankee23 View Post
    Oddly enough, Ted's Red Sox had a higher winning percentage that year than Miggy's Tigers.
    If only there was a wild card back then
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  11. #386
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    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by roblyo33 View Post
    I don't think, either, Trout or Cabrera is a bad choice.
    I don't think anyone is saying that Cabrerra is a bad choice.
    It's just that Trout is an infinitely better choice.
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  12. #387
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    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by RenoHightower View Post
    They won the AL by 17 games. You think that if DiMaggio had sprinkled a couple of 0-fers in there, they wouldn't have won the pennant?
    They were 15-14 when the streak started. There is no way to really answer your question correctly. What we do know is that Joe Dimaggio went on a streak that had never been done, and the Yankees won a lot of games during that time, at a much better percentage than prior to the streak.

  13. #388

    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    I don't think anyone is saying that Cabrerra is a bad choice.
    It's just that Trout is an infinitely better choice.
    Since only one can win, doesn't that make Cabrera a bad choice?

  14. #389
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    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by RenoHightower View Post
    Yes, because he provided more total value, not because he happened to have a lot of RBIs.
    That assumes that 1941 defensive value can be calculated on the basis of anything other than a guess. Current day defensive stats may consist of mysterious proprietary data plugged into mysterious proprietary formulae, but at least I have confidence that there is some data. What do they have from 1941?
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  15. #390
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    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by madjack View Post
    They were 15-14 when the streak started. There is no way to really answer your question correctly. What we do know is that Joe Dimaggio went on a streak that had never been done, and the Yankees won a lot of games during that time, at a much better percentage than prior to the streak.
    You need to troll better.

    Not even two hours ago:

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch View Post
    The Angels were 6-14 before calling up Trout.

    The Angels were 83-59 after calling up Trout, good for a .585 winning%.

    A .585 winning percentage would have put the Angels 4th in MLB behind the Nationals, Reds, and Yankees (.586).

    This is concrete proof of an amazing impact, by their logic.


    Quote Originally Posted by madjack View Post
    Wow a 20 game sample size. Teams never turn it around once they get off to a slow start, and teams that start good always end good.
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  16. #391
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    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by pleasepassthesoup View Post
    Since only one can win, doesn't that make Cabrera a bad choice?
    No. It doesn't.
    If Trout didn't exist, Cabrerra would be a candidate to win (some might argue that Cano should win over Miggy)
    But since Trout does exist, Trout should win because he provided much more value.
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

  17. #392
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    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch View Post
    The best part about this year as that you can jump in the pool of ignorance and defeat these people with their own reasoning.

    The Angels were 6-14 before calling up Trout.

    The Angerls were 83-59 after calling up Trout, good for a .585 winning%.

    A .585 winning percentage would have put the Angels 4th in MLB behind the Nationals, Reds, and Yankees (.586).

    This is concrete proof of an amazing impact, by their logic.
    Could also be the historic slow start by Albert Pujols.

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  18. #393
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    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by Big_E View Post
    Could also be the historic slow start by Albert Pujols.
    But then again, it could be that Pujols got off the deck because Trout was inserted into the lineup....
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

  19. #394
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    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch View Post
    You need to troll better.

    Not even two hours ago:
    I never said Trout didn't contribute to the better winning percentage. He led the league in WAR. But he wasn't even on the team when they started slow. Joe Dimaggio was on the Yankees when they started slow. As others have said, Pujols being awful for the first month played a big role in the Angels slow start.

  20. #395
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    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by madjack View Post
    I never said Trout didn't contribute to the better winning percentage. He led the league in WAR. But he wasn't even on the team when they started slow. Joe Dimaggio was on the Yankees when they started slow. As others have said, Pujols being awful for the first month played a big role in the Angels slow start.
    Yes exactly Joe D was part of the problem withteh Yankees slow start as much as he was part of the solution durring his 56 game anomoly.

    Trout had nothing to do with the Angles being 6-14 as he was at Salt Lake City or some other out of the way place in the Pacific Coast League. I could blame the Angles on being cheap for not having him on the roster to start the year but since he was dreadful in his cameo last year and they had a surplus of outfielders, it was understanable to start him in AAA.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  21. #396

    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by madjack View Post
    I never said Trout didn't contribute to the better winning percentage. He led the league in WAR. But he wasn't even on the team when they started slow. Joe Dimaggio was on the Yankees when they started slow.
    For which of them is this supposed to be a plus?

  22. #397
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    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mxylsplk View Post
    For which of them is this supposed to be a plus?
    Don't confuse the man. Please.
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  23. #398
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    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mxylsplk View Post
    For which of them is this supposed to be a plus?
    Where did I say it had to be a plus for either?

  24. #399

    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by madjack View Post
    Where did I say it had to be a plus for either?
    So you're simply making observations which aren't actually relevant to the discussion you've been having. Appreciate the clarification.

  25. #400

    Re: 2012 MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Yes exactly Joe D was part of the problem withteh Yankees slow start as much as he was part of the solution durring his 56 game anomoly.

    Trout had nothing to do with the Angles being 6-14 as he was at Salt Lake City or some other out of the way place in the Pacific Coast League. I could blame the Angles on being cheap for not having him on the roster to start the year but since he was dreadful in his cameo last year and they had a surplus of outfielders, it was understanable to start him in AAA.
    During March & April Dimaggio had a slash line of .375/.474/.719.

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