Pitching change proposal #1 - K bonus

[Hitman23]

Currently pitchers get awarded 1 point per strike out. Are you in favor of reducing this to .5 points, or leaving as is?

[Big_E]

Voted for the change, of course!

1) Strikeouts are over-valued for a points league at +1. Their real value is +0.25, so this is a compromise of their real vs fantasy value
2) This one change will close the gap between the average pitcher and the average hitter from 95-100 points over a season, to about 15-17.

[ChrisRo]

Obviously, I voted No. I'm all for reducing the disparity between pitching and hitting, but I would prefer to do that by reducing W/QS points, rather than K points, the only stat that truly differentiates dominating pitchers from the rest of the pack.

[Big_E]

So is Nolan Ryan the most dominant pitcher of all time because he has the most strikeouts?
Or is Nolan Ryan the most erratic pitcher of all time because he issued the most walks?

There's the ability to "miss bats" in a positive way (K's) and a negative way (BBI)

[Big_E]

One other point...if I have Johnny Cueto facing Michael Morse, it is advantageous for Cueto to get the K, because he will get +2 for the K, while I only lose -0.5 for the batter K, a difference of +1.5 points. Dropping the K bonus to 0.5 will neutralize the pitcher vs batter situation, where Cueto striking out Morse would only be a +1 for my team -- the equivalent of an out.

[miko]

No, leave it as it is!

[Big_E]

If you vote to leave it as it is (which is of course, your prerogative) i am curious...do you have another plan that would address the 100 point differential between the average pitcher and the average hitter? Or are you also happy with this being a pitching dominant league?

[ruthianblast]

I view this issue how I view real baseball, in that, I simply do not care if a pitcher strikes out a batter, so long as the out is made I'm happy. Additionally, a ground ball with a runner on first is more desirable than a strike out due to the opportunity for a double play. That said, there are still instances where a strikeout is beneficial; but in MOST instances the out is what is the most important, not the K. We're also not talking about completely eliminating the K bonus, just reducing it to a more reasonable level.

Really, ask yourself this: What's a more dominant performance? A Perfect Game with 6 K (a la Buerhle) or a Perfect Game with 14 K (a la Cain)? In my mind there is no difference, both were absolutely dominant performances, one just happened to throw more pitches (9 more) and got more strikeouts.

For the other stats we've been discussing, W, QS, SO, CG; they are 5 pts each; but the frequency at which they occur do not necessarily indicate they are the cause of the disparity. I'm ok with reducing each of the above stats; but in my mind the strikeout bonus is the most effective way not only to reduce the disparity between SP & hitters, but also to more accurately reflect my values in a real baseball game, the goal is to get an out, everything else falls in place after that.

[Hitman23]

I'm at a complete deadlock here. I have no idea how to vote. On one hand my argument in the thread stands and on the other this helps the disparity probably most effectively.

[Hitman23]

Hey has anyone run a report to see the impact on the scoring change? I think that may help me make the decision.

[ruthianblast]

This is all K's per team YTD

Babe's Blasts	634	317
Bad Apples	515	257.5
Boras's Holdouts	731	365.5
Carolina Force	518	259
Evil Empire	648	324
Guys with Ligers	720	360
Guys with Wood	528	264
Larrupin' Lou's	524	262
Michigan Wolverines	689	344.5
Miko's Marauders	674	337
Port City Yankees	539	269.5
Rhode Kill	559	279.5
Rodents of Unusual Size	554	277
Romanian Yankees	618	309
Saxmania's Legends	597	298.5
Springfield Nuclear Powerplant	561	280.5
Stubborn Jalapenos	588	294
Team of Extraordinary Gentlemen	561	280.5
The Lumberjacks	560	280
Those Magnificent Men In Their Resurgent Stirrups	519	259.5

[Big_E]

This is all K's per team YTD

Babe's Blasts	634	317
Bad Apples	515	257.5
Boras's Holdouts	731	365.5
Carolina Force	518	259
Evil Empire	648	324
Guys with Ligers	720	360
Guys with Wood	528	264
Larrupin' Lou's	524	262
Michigan Wolverines	689	344.5
Miko's Marauders	674	337
Port City Yankees	539	269.5
Rhode Kill	559	279.5
Rodents of Unusual Size	554	277
Romanian Yankees	618	309
Saxmania's Legends	597	298.5
Springfield Nuclear Powerplant	561	280.5
Stubborn Jalapenos	588	294
Team of Extraordinary Gentlemen	561	280.5
The Lumberjacks	560	280
Those Magnificent Men In Their Resurgent Stirrups	519	259.5

This is not correct. You used "MLB" stats. You need to use Fantasy stats.

MLB stats are a player's real-life stats. It includes the times a player has been on our bench.
Fantasy stats include only the stats accumulated while on our active roster.

See below for correct stats:

[Big_E]

Stats using FANTASY stats

Team	K	FPTS
Babe's Blasts	496	248
Bad Apples	428	214
Boras's Holdouts	475	237.5
Carolina Force	483	241.5
Evil Empire	451	225.5
Guys with Ligers	480	240
Guys with Wood	430	215
Larrupin' Lou's	449	224.5
Michigan Wolverines	517	258.5
Miko's Marauders	474	237
Port City Yankees	487	243.5
Rhode Kill	491	245.5
Rodents of Unusual Size	525	262.5
Romanian Yankees	513	256.5
Saxmania's Legends	443	221.5
Springfield Nuclear Powerplant	460	230
Stubborn Jalapenos	452	226
Team of Extraordinary Gentlemen	453	226.5
The Lumberjacks	486	243
Those Magnificent Men In Their Resurgent Stirrups	516	258

[miko]

If you vote to leave it as it is (which is of course, your prerogative) i am curious...do you have another plan that would address the 100 point differential between the average pitcher and the average hitter? Or are you also happy with this being a pitching dominant league?

Seriously, I am going to just ignore these polls for changes......my head hurts....everything becomes a debate.

[Hitman23]

Seriously, I am going to just ignore these polls for changes......my head hurts....everything becomes a debate.

You don't have to comment but I'd appreciate it if you did vote. We have enough people that ignore the polls.

[Big_E]

He did vote..he was one who voted against it early...

Which I would still like to know, not from him but from anyone who votes against it:

If you vote to leave it as it is (which is of course, your prerogative) i am curious...do you have another plan that would address the 100 point differential between the average pitcher and the average hitter? Or are you also happy with this being a pitching dominant league?

[Big_E]

Can we lock people's accounts at sportsline until people vote? This should not take weeks for people to vote.

[miko]

Vote Vote Vote blah blah blah....

[ChrisRo]

Can we lock people's accounts at sportsline until people vote? This should not take weeks for people to vote.

We all know you really want this change, but that would be a step too far. People have the right to abstain from voting, you know.

[ruthianblast]

We all know you really want this change, but that would be a step too far. People have the right to abstain from voting, you know.

I actually disagree with this. We all have a stake in this league and pay for the privilege to be in it. I think it's important for every owner to make their vote known and to explain their reasoning for the rest of this. In a trade scenario, I agree with you, but this is a fairly large continuing change that affects all teams and not equally.

[Big_E]

We all know you really want this change, but that would be a step too far. People have the right to abstain from voting, you know.

No they don't. The rules say that we need 65% of the league to vote to approve a rule change. So if 5 people vote and it's 5-0, doesn't pass. If you're against it, vote against it. But we need active owners, and if you don't want to participate, then drop out, we have a long list of people waiting to join. There is no reason that 45% of the league is not voicing an opinion on a major change to the league. Being in a league is more than logging in once a week to check your lineup.

[Hitman23]

I don't think I agree with locking people's accounts however if we do change the by laws to reflect a percentage of the people who vote instead of the league. I feel if you don't take the time to vote (which I completely agree is a responsibility in this league) then you lose the right to complain if something changes. RB is correct, we all have a stake in this league and it is a privilege to be in it.

[Hitman23]

Hey just to be clear, I haven't voted because I'm still not sure. I will though, I'm just taking this one very seriously. I'm a fan of the K bonus but at the same time this actually may solve our problem pretty easily.

[Big_E]

I was joking about locking peoples accounts, but it would sure get their attention!

[Hitman23]

He did vote..he was one who voted against it early...

Oh I know. But his statement after that I didn't like. I don't want him to stop voting on important league matters.