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  1. #1
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    Has A Former Cy Young Winner Ever Led The League In Losses?

    Tim Lincecum leads the NL with 8 losses.

  2. #2
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    Re: Has A Former Cy Young Winner Ever Led The League In Losses?

    The first name that came to my mind was David Cone, but I see that he had 14 losses 3 different times, yet never led the league.

  3. #3
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    Re: Has A Former Cy Young Winner Ever Led The League In Losses?

    Most recently, Barry Zito (AL CY, 2002) tied for the NL lead in losses (with Aaron Harang) in 2008.

    Here's a link to the MLB pitching loss leaders for each season:
    http://www.baseball-almanac.com/pitching/piloss4.shtml

  4. #4
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    Re: Has A Former Cy Young Winner Ever Led The League In Losses?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldee5 View Post
    Most recently, Barry Zito (AL CY, 2002) tied for the NL lead in losses (with Aaron Harang) in 2008.

    Here's a link to the MLB pitching loss leaders for each season:
    http://www.baseball-almanac.com/pitching/piloss4.shtml
    Based on your list, Verlander did it the same year. Greinke also did it recently.

  5. #5
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    Re: Has A Former Cy Young Winner Ever Led The League In Losses?

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    Based on your list, Verlander did it the same year. Greinke also did it recently.
    I didn't mention them because when they led the league in losses, they had not yet won the CY award.

    I do see Orel Hershiser on the loss leader list a couple of times after he had already won the CYA.

  6. #6
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    Re: Has A Former Cy Young Winner Ever Led The League In Losses?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldee5 View Post
    I didn't mention them because when they led the league in losses, they had not yet won the CY award.

    I do see Orel Hershiser on the loss leader list a couple of times after he had already won the CYA.
    Yeah, you're right. I overlooked that point.

  7. #7

    Re: Has A Former Cy Young Winner Ever Led The League In Losses?

    Looks like LaMarr Hoyt did it the following year ('83-'84)
    Don't tease me, you know what I do for a living.

  8. #8
    Alright, alright, alright... Big_E's Avatar
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    Re: Has A Former Cy Young Winner Ever Led The League In Losses?

    Denny McLain: CYA 1968 and 1969. 22 losses in 1971. (Most losses ever by a former CYA winner?)

    Fantasy Baseball: Larrupin' Lou's

  9. #9
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    Re: Has A Former Cy Young Winner Ever Led The League In Losses?

    Since the Cy Young is named for the pitcher who coincidentally had the same name as the award, his 1891 season counts.

    Young finished 1891 at 27-22. At the end of his career, he led the league with 21 losses in 1906.

  10. #10
    A new year, a new era penguin4's Avatar
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    Re: Has A Former Cy Young Winner Ever Led The League In Losses?

    Here are some others....

    Doug Drabek (1990 NL) did it in 1993 AL.

    Famous flame-out Vida Blue (1971 AL) did it in 1977 AL.

    Zack Greinke (2009 AL), Brandon Webb (2006 NL), and Tom Glavine (1991, 1998 NL) all did it before they won the Cy.

    And Steve Carlton (1972, 1977, 1980, 1982 NL), actually did it both before, 1970 NL, and the year after, 1973 NL, he won the Cy. But I guess the Phillies were so bad in the mid-70s (in '72, he was singlehandedly responsible for literally almost half the team's victories) that shouldn't be too unbelievable, unfortunately.
    "You aint my b!tch, n!gga! Buy your own damn fries!" -- Barack Obama

  11. #11
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Has A Former Cy Young Winner Ever Led The League In Losses?

    Quote Originally Posted by penguin4 View Post
    Here are some others....

    Doug Drabek (1990 NL) did it in 1993 AL.

    Famous flame-out Vida Blue (1971 AL) did it in 1977 AL.

    Zack Greinke (2009 AL), Brandon Webb (2006 NL), and Tom Glavine (1991, 1998 NL) all did it before they won the Cy.

    And Steve Carlton (1972, 1977, 1980, 1982 NL), actually did it both before, 1970 NL, and the year after, 1973 NL, he won the Cy. But I guess the Phillies were so bad in the mid-70s (in '72, he was singlehandedly responsible for literally almost half the team's victories) that shouldn't be too unbelievable, unfortunately.
    I wouldn't describe Vida Blue as a "famous flame-out." He had one of the great rookie seasons ever, followed by a few seasons where he was a perfectly OK major-league pitcher, but no better. Then he was quite good again for a few years, and remained effective through his age-32 season.

    When I think "flame-out," I think of a much more meteoric rise and fall - Wally Bunker, Jim bouton, Dontrelle Willis. Vida Blue never came close to fulfilling his initial promise, but he wasn't a flame-out.
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  12. #12
    1931-2011 hellonewman's Avatar
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    Re: Has A Former Cy Young Winner Ever Led The League In Losses?

    Bob Grim, Johnny Kucks, Tom Sturdivant, Bob Turley ... Stengel had his share of flameouts.
    Rocking that "arrogant Yankee fan" attitude.

  13. #13
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    Re: Has A Former Cy Young Winner Ever Led The League In Losses?

    What is the highest ERA in a season for a former CY-Young award winner (after they won the award) who also threw enough innings to qualify for the ERA title?
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  14. #14
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Has A Former Cy Young Winner Ever Led The League In Losses?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    What is the highest ERA in a season for a former CY-Young award winner (after they won the award) who also threw enough innings to qualify for the ERA title?
    I immediately went to check Steve Carlton's record, which turned out to be a pretty good guess - in 1986 he had a 5.10 ERA in 176.1 IP (though they were split between AL and NL).

    As I poked around a little, though, I found two who did even worse. Barry Zito had a 5.15 ERA in 180 IP in 2008, and Bob Welch put up an impressive 5.29 ERA in 166.2 IP in 1993.

    That's the worst I've been able to find, but I didn't go through it exhaustively, and could easily have missed someone.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  15. #15
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    Re: Has A Former Cy Young Winner Ever Led The League In Losses?

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    That's the worst I've been able to find, but I didn't go through it exhaustively, and could easily have missed someone.
    OK so I decided to leaf through the Cy young award winners and check. Like you I could have missed some but here are the Cy-young award winners I found who had an ERA of 5 or more with 162+ IP in a season after winning the award.

    1st Cy, Player, ERA, ERA+, IP - year of 5+ ERA

    1957 Warren Spahn - 5.29, 67, 173 - 1964
    1971 Vida Blue - 5.01, 70, 237 - 1976
    1972 Steve Carlton - 5.10, 79, 176 - 1986 (3 teams)
    1983 Rick Stucliff - 5.75, 78, 166 - 1993
    1985 Dwight Gooden - 5.01, 100, 170 - 1996
    1990 Doug Drabek - 5.74, 77, 169 - 1997
    1990 Bob Welsh - 5.29, 77, 166 - 1993
    1993 Jack McDowell - 5.11, 95, 192 - 1996
    1996 Pat Hetgen - 5.17, 89, 177 - 1998
    1995 Randy Johnson - 5.00, 90, 205 - 2006
    2002 Bary Zito - 5.15, 85, 180 - 2008

    As you can see most weren't until 5 to 15 years after the pitcher won their 1st cy young award so they weren't really the same pitcher but a few like Welsh, McDowell & Hentgen were within 3 years of winning it.

    Several cy-young award winners were never the same after thier last (or only) cy like Bob Turley, Denny Mclain, Randy Jones and a few others but either didn't pitch enough innings or weren't over 5.00 ERA. Mclain was awful after winning back to back cy-youngs in 68/69 and was out of baseball by age 28 in 1972.

    Doug Drebek posted over a 7+ ERA in over 100 IP in 1998, Welsh posted a 7+ ERA in 1994 in 60+ IP. Both were then out of baseball.

    So Tim Lincecum with his 104 IP, 5.93 ERA and 59 ERA plus is on pace to set the new record.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  16. #16

    Re: Has A Former Cy Young Winner Ever Led The League In Losses?

    I would have thought this would have been a Sam McDowell act but apparently he never won a Cy Yong or lead his league in losses. (finished 3rd in the Cy Young voting for 1970 and finished 2nd in losses for 1971. Close but no cigar.)
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