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  1. #576
    Big Poppa dabomb2045's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    I just looked at Upton's numbers...wow. Have to admit I didnt realize he was struggling that much this year.

  2. #577
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    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    This also weakens the rotation and pretty much destroys the bullpen for the year.
    Meh. Phelps can fill in for Nova and probably perform almost to his level. For the bullpen you just make Eppley/Rapada the set-up guy or Chamberlain or Aardsma when/they come back. Not a huge loss.

    Upton, on the other hand, is a legit elite player. Thought of Granderson, Upton, and Cano in the middle of the lineup, padded by Jeter, Gardner, A-Rod, and Tex on either side is drool worthy.

    Jeter
    Granderson
    Upton
    Cano
    Rodriguez
    Teixeira
    Cust or Branyan/Jones
    Martin
    Gardner

    You could put 2-6 in any order really.

  3. #578
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    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    Quote Originally Posted by dabomb2045 View Post
    I just looked at Upton's numbers...wow. Have to admit I didnt realize he was struggling that much this year.
    It's just his power numbers that are substantially down. Long could probably get him hitting bombs again in no time.

  4. #579
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    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    if the dbacks are looking for a 3Bman, i can see dombrowski swooping in and offering a package centered around castellanos (he's blocked anyway forever) and turner... hell, throw in boesch or delmon young too and then just slide upton into their vacancy

    plus, we know that the tigers and dbacks already have a pretty decent working relationship (although the AZ front office has changed some over the last 2 years)
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  5. #580
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    Quote Originally Posted by just-blaze View Post
    I think a Gardner, Banuelos/Nova, Nunez, Joseph, Williams/Austin deal would be hard to beat for any team.
    Gardner + Nova/Banuelos seems like a good start, but including Williams + Austin + Sanchez seems like overkill. I don't even know why any team would take Nunez in a package, the guy is terrible at everything.

    Upton makes sense and I'd be all for it, especially considering that Swisher is pretty much gone after this year.

  6. #581

    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    Dellin Betances,Dante Bichette, Jr, Adam Warren, Manny Banuelos and phelps for upton

  7. #582

    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    Cashman's not making any mid-season trade for Upton. Right now, the focus is going to be on winning a championship this year. Any trade that will weaken the pitching staff isn't going to happen.
    Fire Cashman, but Hal Steinbrenner is the root of Yankee woes.

  8. #583
    Bazinga Hitman23's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    Upton? meh Not only do the Yankees already hit too many home runs, he would just hit them too damn far. Pass.

    In all seriousness, droolworthy is correct. The thought of Upton on this team makes me giddy.
    Thank you, 2013-2014 New York Rangers for a great season!

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  9. #584

    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    Cashman will not trade a boatload of prospects for an outfielder. He wasn't crazy about doing it for an elite pitcher.

  10. #585

    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    I'd still prefer Hamels moving forward, especially considering the uncertainty surrounding Pineda. Also kinda worried about Upton's durability.


  11. #586

    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    Cashman's not making any mid-season trade for Upton. Right now, the focus is going to be on winning a championship this year. Any trade that will weaken the pitching staff isn't going to happen.
    Bingo. Cashman would and should not agree with the suggestion that the Yankees could include DRob and not lose much in the bullpen. The Yankees need more out there to win in October, not less, and Joba and Aardsma are both big unknowns at this point. There is no way DRob can be traded.

    Given the possibilities of further injuries, Garcia being marginal, and Andy's return not certain, I also agree that Cashman is not going to trade Nova or Phelps without getting a better pitcher back for the rotation.

  12. #587

    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    Quote Originally Posted by NYYankeesFan92 View Post
    I was talking to a Yankees fan on Twitter about Cole Hamels possibly becoming a Yankee & he stated that he didn't want a pitcher who threw mostly fastballs & change ups. What do you guys think?
    It's a moot point because Cashman isn't blowing up what's left of the farm system to reel him in.

  13. #588

    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    The Upton brothers have been career underachievers. Just no thanks, especially given likely price tag.

    I even said this last year. I rather have Gardner than JUpton at this point. Adjusted for defensive production, Gardner was nearly as valuable as Justin Upton was last year and actually more valuable over two year period.

    Upton does have more upside but not so much I rather pay his 45/4 or whatever instead of just keeping Gardner for two more in arbitration.

  14. #589

    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    I agree that there will be no mid-season trade for Upton. However, if he were still available in the off-season it would be something the Yankees would have to seriously consider. If the Yankees want to remain competitive beyond this year, and maybe next, they need an infusion of young talent on offense.
    "We understand that John Henry must be embarrassed, frustrated and disappointed by his failure in this transaction. Unlike the Yankees, he chose not to go the extra distance for his fans in Boston."

  15. #590

    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees13 View Post
    I agree that there will be no mid-season trade for Upton. However, if he were still available in the off-season it would be something the Yankees would have to seriously consider. If the Yankees want to remain competitive beyond this year, and maybe next, they need an infusion of young talent on offense.
    Right! If it became an off-season trade possibility than I can see Cashman talking with his good friend in Arizona. Hell, he'll probably talk with him this month about Upton, but I don't think the timing is there to get anything done in the next three or so weeks.
    Fire Cashman, but Hal Steinbrenner is the root of Yankee woes.

  16. #591

    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    The Upton brothers have been career underachievers. Just no thanks, especially given likely price tag.

    I even said this last year. I rather have Gardner than JUpton at this point. Adjusted for defensive production, Gardner was nearly as valuable as Justin Upton was last year and actually more valuable over two year period.

    Upton does have more upside but not so much I rather pay his 45/4 or whatever instead of just keeping Gardner for two more in arbitration.
    I agree with this.


  17. #592
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    BJ has three years on Justin and he also happens to suck. He's having a major down year, but it's probably also a reason why he's being made available in the first place.

  18. #593

    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    Not BJ... Justin

  19. #594

    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN J.Upton is just 24 years old w/98 career HRs, 2xAll-Star. There is concern among rival teams about whether he's got chronic shoulder issue.

  20. #595
    NYYF Legend

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    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    both he and his brother have the same condition
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  21. #596

    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    Quote Originally Posted by d32123 View Post
    Probably about breaks even for this season, depending on how he does for the second half.

    For the next three years, it'll help us a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by d32123 View Post
    Meh. Phelps can fill in for Nova and probably perform almost to his level. For the bullpen you just make Eppley/Rapada the set-up guy or Chamberlain or Aardsma when/they come back. Not a huge loss.
    I have to assume your breaking even analysis for this year is being based on their respective 2011 WARs, adding Robertson + Nova and comparing to Upton. If I'm wrong, the following may be moot, and I'll await your clarification.

    If it is the methodology, it makes the big assumption Upton reverts back to that in the second half, doesn't account for Gardner's return, assume two pitchers returning from major injuries hit the ground running, and makes us reliant on a first year pitcher to avoid the wall in the second half.

    But, even give all that, it ignores any Yankees specific context. In spring training, the Yankees are something ridiculous like 80+% to make the playoffs, and they're at about 86% now. Just using a metric that gives a cumulative value over time and adding them together doesn't make sense for this team. They're going to make the playoffs, so while guys like Eppley/Phelps/Rapada may have minor impacts in WAR over the course of a half season compared to a Robertson, there no way sending in Eppley/Rapada in to the 8th inning of a playoff game multiple times gives the Yankees a better chance to win. And this is coming from someone who views most relievers as crap who's successes and failures are largely due to SSS.

    In a nutshell for this year, this will downgrade our playoff rotation and bullpen, with a potential marginal upgrade to our OF, assuming Gardner's return. It will also gut our farm system, and leave little chance for upgrading our pitching. I'm all for selling high on Nova and the like, but I think your proposal is overkill.
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  22. #597
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    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    One player that interests me: David Dejesus.


    Solid defense and a .370+ OBP would be nice to add to the bottom of the order. Might hit a few cheapies at YS too.

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  23. #598
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    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    I'm with nerfball on Upton
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  24. #599
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    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    Quote Originally Posted by NerfBall55 View Post
    I have to assume your breaking even analysis for this year is being based on their respective 2011 WARs, adding Robertson + Nova and comparing to Upton. If I'm wrong, the following may be moot, and I'll await your clarification.

    If it is the methodology, it makes the big assumption Upton reverts back to that in the second half, doesn't account for Gardner's return, assume two pitchers returning from major injuries hit the ground running, and makes us reliant on a first year pitcher to avoid the wall in the second half.

    But, even give all that, it ignores any Yankees specific context. In spring training, the Yankees are something ridiculous like 80+% to make the playoffs, and they're at about 86% now. Just using a metric that gives a cumulative value over time and adding them together doesn't make sense for this team. They're going to make the playoffs, so while guys like Eppley/Phelps/Rapada may have minor impacts in WAR over the course of a half season compared to a Robertson, there no way sending in Eppley/Rapada in to the 8th inning of a playoff game multiple times gives the Yankees a better chance to win. And this is coming from someone who views most relievers as crap who's successes and failures are largely due to SSS.

    In a nutshell for this year, this will downgrade our playoff rotation and bullpen, with a potential marginal upgrade to our OF, assuming Gardner's return. It will also gut our farm system, and leave little chance for upgrading our pitching. I'm all for selling high on Nova and the like, but I think your proposal is overkill.
    THIS is how you make solid arguments on an internet discussion forum.

  25. #600
    Brien "The Incident" just-blaze's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    Gardner + Nova/Banuelos seems like a good start, but including Williams + Austin + Sanchez seems like overkill. I don't even know why any team would take Nunez in a package, the guy is terrible at everything.

    Upton makes sense and I'd be all for it, especially considering that Swisher is pretty much gone after this year.
    Well it was one of Williams and Austin with no Sanchez included.

    Nunez' value plays up in the NL West where speed, gap power, and SB's are more valuable especially as a complementary piece. If staying in 1 position can stabilize the meltdown he had earlier this season, he would be decent at defense as well, he does have good range and good arm.
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