2012 Hot Stove/ Trade Rumors...

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

I think being concerned about Greinke, who has been diagnosed with mental health issues and almost washed out of the league as a result, is perfectly reasonable. I think ascribing Vazquez' pitching difficulty to the ever-nebulous "New York pressure" when there are other, more reasonable solutions (solutions that don't ignore relevant data), is substantially less reasonable.

Yeah, right. And you probably don't believe that Swisher couldn't handle the intensity of Chicago, either.

[Hitman23]

I think being concerned about Greinke, who has been diagnosed with mental health issues and almost washed out of the league as a result, is perfectly reasonable. I think ascribing Vazquez' pitching difficulty to the ever-nebulous "New York pressure" when there are other, more reasonable solutions (solutions that don't ignore relevant data), is substantially less reasonable.

It's not unreasonable to feel that way about Vazquez. I believe his issues were just as mental as they were mechanical.

[Hitman23]

Oh wait... you agree with this?




Is it too late to change my opinion?

Yes. It's etched in stone now because I quoted it.

[Hitman23]

Yeah, right. And you probably don't believe that Swisher couldn't handle the intensity of Chicago, either.

No one can handle that horrible announcing. He gone.

[JL25and3]

It's not unreasonable to feel that way about Vazquez. I believe his issues were just as mental as they were mechanical.

You may believe what you like, but you're just making it up. We have absolutely no basis for drawing psychological conclusions about a player's performance.

[Hitman23]

You may believe what you like, but you're just making it up. We have absolutely no basis for drawing psychological conclusions about a player's performance.

Hogwash.

[JL25and3]

Hogwash.

You're hogwash. And that's a professional diagnosis.

[Hitman23]

If you keep posting this stuff, you should be required to change your avatar to one of the available black and white photos.

Are you messing with me or are you really suggesting that someone's mental state has no affect on their on field performance?

[NerfBall55]

Are you messing with me or are you really suggesting that someone's mental state has no affect on their on field performance?

Of course it can, but you there's nothing that proves it for Javier Vazquez. Every point on this has been countered with real data.

[Hitman23]

Of course it can, but you there's nothing that proves it for Javier Vazquez. Every point on this has been countered with real data.

You can't prove that mental issues had anything to do with any player ever. But it does affect you. Players are not robots.

Is there a player that you can prove had mental issues with data?

[JL25and3]

Are you messing with me or are you really suggesting that someone's mental state has no affect on their on field performance?

I absolutely believe that a player's mental state affects his on-field performance. But you're suggesting that we can use his on-field performance to draw conclusions about his mental state, and that's just...hogwash.

[Hitman23]

I absolutely believe that a player's mental state affects his on-field performance. But you're suggesting that we can use his on-field performance to draw conclusions about his mental state, and that's just...hogwash.

But how come he was a very good pitcher prior to being a Yankee, failed in the end of his first Yankee try, left, became a very good pitcher agin, came here and sucked horribly. Once I can understand, something happened. Twice? Too much of a coincidence. And the pressure of him sucking so hard had to have made it even tougher to overcome. no?

[JL25and3]

But how come he was a very good pitcher prior to being a Yankee, failed in the end of his first Yankee try, left, became a very good pitcher agin, came here and sucked horribly. Once I can understand, something happened. Twice? Too much of a coincidence. And the pressure of him sucking so hard had to have made it even tougher to overcome. no?

There are lots of pitchers who've been good and bad and good and bad. Maybe there's a psychological explanation, maybe not. But you're just making one up, because we really don't know a damn thing about his mental state.

[Hitman23]

There are lots of pitchers who've been good and bad and good and bad. Maybe there's a psychological explanation, maybe not. But you're just making one up, because we really don't know a damn thing about his mental state.

It's an educated guess.

You're right, I don't know. I'm just taking what I see and trying to figure it out. I could be wrong. Maybe I completely am. Just too much of a coincidence.

[firemanx]

Just saw that the phillies if decide to be sellers Cole Hamels could be on the block thats the guy i would like to see us go after he is a young left handed ace who keeps the ball on the ground 44%GB 25.6k% would cost a lot, but if were moving prospects lets get a young SP

[NerfBall55]

But how come he was a very good pitcher prior to being a Yankee, failed in the end of his first Yankee try, left, became a very good pitcher agin, came here and sucked horribly. Once I can understand, something happened. Twice? Too much of a coincidence. And the pressure of him sucking so hard had to have made it even tougher to overcome. no?

C'mon, this is a total cherry pick of his career. Look at 205, 2006 and 2008.

His second time in NY has already been explained.

[d32123]

Just saw that the phillies if decide to be sellers Cole Hamels could be on the block thats the guy i would like to see us go after he is a young left handed ace who keeps the ball on the ground 44%GB 25.6k% would cost a lot, but if were moving prospects lets get a young SP

I'm certain that we'll make offers for both Hamels and Greinke. I doubt we'll be the highest bidder for either of them, though.

[teknetic]

Javier Vazquez "losing his stuff" pitching for the Yankees is not a coincidence. The guy could not handle pitching in NY, and trying to argue otherwise in spite of the evidence is ridiculous.

Great year in Atlanta, terrible year in NY (in his second tour), good year in Florida. I'm supposed to believe that that's just a coincidence and if we'd had him in 2009 or 2011 he would have been great/good? Sorry, that's complete bs

So you think changing jersey's caused him to nearly three mph off his fastball? What voodoo magic is this?

I believe in measurables and statistics, but that's not all there is to the game. "He was bad because he lost a couple MPH on his heater and his curve wasn't breaking as well" completely ignores the point.

It's entirely unreasonable to expect any pitcher to maintain any sort of success by having to deal with such a drastic decline in stuff so quickly/unexpectedly.

[Carsten Charles]

You're completely and utterly 100% wrong.

Good comeback. I have facts that back me up. What do you have? Oh nothing? Gotcha.

[bomber999]

If last night's abortion of a start by Warren prompts Cashman to get on the phone and bang out a deal for Greinke, it won't have been a total loss.

[just-blaze]

How can you claim this with such absolute certainty?

Not to beat a dead horse, but Fangraphs has avg. velocity per year.

And his velocity actually increased when he went to Florida the next year. Not coincidentally his K rates and stats were much better (admittedly with help from the weak NL), but his velocity was still not up to his career norm.

[Hitman23]

Good comeback. I have facts that back me up. What do you have? Oh nothing? Gotcha.

wow people sure are teste today.

[d32123]

wow people sure are teste today.

Well it's to be expected when all you do is make ridiculous claims without any facts to back them up.

[Hitman23]

Well it's to be expected when all you do is make ridiculous claims without any facts to back them up.

No the ridiculous part is I can't have a little fun without running into someone like you who wants to be alpha poster and show your awesome knowledge about baseball. I have an opinion about something, right or wrong I don't really care. You can disagree all you want but there's really no reason for you or Mr Charles to be so god damn rude about it. I come here to have fun and shoot the sh!t and I really find no pleasure in these petty little arguments. So spout off your awesome knowledge and prove what an expert you are.

If you knew me at all, and you weren't be such an ass, you may even get me to see another side of the argument. That is not all I do. I'm a very reasonable person until I see crap like this. It's really just unnecessary but people seem to get off on it.

[Hitman23]

Not to beat a dead horse, but Fangraphs has avg. velocity per year.

And his velocity actually increased when he went to Florida the next year. Not coincidentally his K rates and stats were much better (admittedly with help from the weak NL), but his velocity was still not up to his career norm.

So is it something about the Yankees procedures or coaching that is an issue or is it just a coincidence that the two times he was here something was wrong?