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  1. #26

    Re: Bring Back Melky

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Muhozi View Post
    If there is one trade i can't forgive cashman is the second Javy Vazquez trade
    Quote Originally Posted by apalradio View Post
    Melky was rather underwhelming at the time. Rolling the dice on Javy a second time, although risky, was a reasonable risk. Who knew the uncharted new depths of his eventual suckitude in a NY uniform?
    That first-pitch grand slam he gave up to Johnny Damon was more than enough for me.

  2. #27
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    Re: Bring Back Melky

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Melky is one of the few guys to come up through the system that I had a hard time rooting for. Seemed to always be making mental mistakes. I remember one game where he was paying more attention to the roll call then the game, which led to an error and a run scored. That kind of stuff.

    He was absolutely atrocious from May on in '08. As close to an automatic out as you can get.
    I was never a huge Melky fan either, idk
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  3. #28
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    Re: Bring Back Melky

    Quote Originally Posted by apalradio View Post
    Rolling the dice on Javy a second time, although risky, was a reasonable risk. Who knew the uncharted new depths of his eventual suckitude in a NY uniform?
    I think at least half this board (including me.)

  4. #29
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: Bring Back Melky

    Yea, half the board clearly saw the decline in velocity coming.

  5. #30
    Off To Never Never Land Mr.Muhozi's Avatar
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    Re: Bring Back Melky

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCrusader View Post
    When you are the GM of a an organization for 14 years and counting like Cashman has been there are going to be plenty of trades that you can second guess and have hindsight on but many trades you can look to as awesome trades as well.

    Like the recent trade for Granderson or the Nick Swisher trade of buying low because of Swishers BABIP and basically only giving up Wilson Betemit.

    The trade involving Melky happened, no need to find or assign blame.

    In my opinon if there was any legitimate hindsight of that trade for Javy it was because of Arodys Vizcaino who is now recovering from tommy john suergery, not because of Melky.

    Melky was ok as a Yankee for the role he had and then went on to have a terrible year in Atlanta after he was traded and dedicated him self physically and mentally to becoming a better player and worked his butt off in the offseason with the likes of A-Rod and Cano and has done just that, become better.

    Good for him.
    I understand hindsight is 20/20 but Arodys was the reason I did not like the trade and its implications it had on Hughes and Joba. For me Cashman has done a lot more right than wrong and think he gets an unfair amount of stick from fans. But this trade, apart from Logan off course who took a while to become good, was pretty bad.

    We'll have to see how Vizcaino responds to TJS and if he stays a reliever.
    40 pitchers, ever, have an ERA+ of 130 or higher for their career. 15 have 140 or higher. 3 guys have 150 or higher - one is right at 150, the second place guy is at 154, and Mariano Rivera is at 205.

  6. #31

    Re: Bring Back Melky

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Muhozi View Post
    I understand hindsight is 20/20 but Arodys was the reason I did not like the trade and its implications it had on Hughes and Joba. For me Cashman has done a lot more right than wrong and think he gets an unfair amount of stick from fans. But this trade, apart from Logan off course who took a while to become good, was pretty bad.

    We'll have to see how Vizcaino responds to TJS and if he stays a reliever.
    The true effects of that trade won't be known for several years besides Arodys future, there is a 19 year old 3rd baseman at Charleston that will determine its final grade.
    Is this the end of the Brian Cashman era?

  7. #32
    Off To Never Never Land Mr.Muhozi's Avatar
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    Re: Bring Back Melky

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    The true effects of that trade won't be known for several years besides Arodys future, there is a 19 year old 3rd baseman at Charleston that will determine its final grade.
    Can't wait to see the progression of Dante, all of the Charleston lads are killing it.

    Back on the Melky front I never realised he was doing this well

    .369 BA, .412 OBP, .556 SLG, 25 RBI 19 extra base hits, 73 hits total (leads MLB) 9 SB
    40 pitchers, ever, have an ERA+ of 130 or higher for their career. 15 have 140 or higher. 3 guys have 150 or higher - one is right at 150, the second place guy is at 154, and Mariano Rivera is at 205.

  8. #33

    Re: Bring Back Melky

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Muhozi View Post
    Can't wait to see the progression of Dante, all of the Charleston lads are killing it.

    Back on the Melky front I never realised he was doing this well

    .369 BA, .412 OBP, .556 SLG, 25 RBI 19 extra base hits, 73 hits total (leads MLB) 9 SB
    He had over 200 hits last year too.
    Is this the end of the Brian Cashman era?

  9. #34
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    Re: Bring Back Melky

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Muhozi View Post
    Can't wait to see the progression of Dante, all of the Charleston lads are killing it.

    Back on the Melky front I never realised he was doing this well

    .369 BA, .412 OBP, .556 SLG, 25 RBI 19 extra base hits, 73 hits total (leads MLB) 9 SB
    I think he will be more expensive than Swisher due to speed, defense, and age. Melky is killing it for my fantasy team-currently ranked #9 overall in fantasy. Unbelievable. Wouldnt be surprised to see 10+ mil a season for him.
    Hoping Rivera can pitch forever!

  10. #35
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    Re: Bring Back Melky

    If we can get Melky back for a reasonable offer, I'd love to have him in the OF again. I think Swish has peaked, and while I think Melky will only be this guy for a season or two, a 3 year deal would be great.
    Attention Steinbrenner and front-office morons! Your triumphs mean nothing. You all stink. You can sit on it, and rotate! This is George Costanza. I fear no reprisal. Extension 5-1-7-0.

  11. #36
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    Re: Bring Back Melky

    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    I was never a huge Melky fan either, idk
    I kind of liked him. But I thought he was more of a 4th OF who might blossom into a passable 3rd OFer who could give you 15-20 HR & SBs a year.

    Never thought he'd be kicking ass like he is now though.

    Good for him, always seemed like a funny guy. Maybe too funny for his own good though. Took being non-tendered by ATL to light a fire under his butt.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  12. #37
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    Re: Bring Back Melky

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    Melky had a terrible year with the Braves and was a candidate to be non-tendered by them. It wasn't until last year with the Royals that he started to come into his own as a hitter that his AA manager thought he would be in his career.
    Sad, but it screams PEDs to me. Well, maybe not screams, since he's in his prime age, but no one is above it anymore
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  13. #38
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    Re: Bring Back Melky

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    Sad, but it screams PEDs to me. Well, maybe not screams, since he's in his prime age, but no one is above it anymore
    Hitting for a higher average and more doubles doesn't scream PED's and in the steroid era there were plenty of players who didn't preform at high levels who were average to bench players who used PED's, its pervasiveness had to do with other stuff as well like stamina over the long season.

    Melky actually got bigger and indirectly flat out fat when he was in Atlanta probably to hit for more power and suffered for it and had a terrible season.

    Melky lost weight going into his KC to become agile again and took his rededication and has built on it in San Francisco for the Giants.

    Kind of Similar to Nick Swisher when the A's traded him to the White Sox and he bulked up and got kind of fat and out of shape, had a bad season and then was traded to the Yankees(Cashman bought low thanks to BABIP) where he subsequently rededicated himself and got in much better physical shape.

    And Melky never has and probably never will be the Home Run threat that Nick Swisher is though it is not crazy to argue that Melky has become a better overall ball player.

    Look at the pictures, the Atlanta pics aren't a pretty sight...

    With Yankees at 24, still raw as a player and in shape



    With Atlanta, 25 out of shape





    With Giants, 27(entering prime) and back in shape







    It's not like Melky became some 35-50 HR guy he has had a good year and a half for other things nothing having to to with power which is what PED rumors usually involve.

    Which is kind of naive to begin with because as I kind of hit on above plenty of PED users never hit for any power in the steroid era, PED's is as much to do with recovery because of the 162 game season and playing everyday then HR numbers which is what people focus on.

    In my humble opinion his season in Atlanta as a 25 year old was a wake up call and from all reports he worked his tail off since then as seen by his weight loss and getting into better physical shape after bulking up going into his Atlanta season.

  14. #39

    Re: Bring Back Melky

    That's a pretty illuminating photo essay there. Thanks. Doesn't prove no PEDs were involved, of course, but definitely shows how far he's come physically. I wouldn't even say he's "back in shape," I'd say he's in the best shape of his life.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  15. #40
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    Re: Bring Back Melky

    Ironically enough Sherman has a story on Melky in today's post...

    Hits a lot of similar points already brought up in this tread like redidicating him self to being in shape as well as training with A-Rod to go along with quotes by Cashman and Towers.

    The last paragraph also hits on the impending free agency of Swisher and Melky and if they can actually afford either of them based on the budget restrictions the Yankees are saying they are prudent on enforcing.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_...psM3r8UjgpcP/1

    In the time since he left the Yankees, Melky Cabrera has gotten out of shape, been non-tendered, gotten into shape, played with three teams in three years and, oh yeah, become an NL MVP candidate.

    It is hard to find many baseball officials who believe Cabrera has sustainability as an elite player. Nevertheless, nearly one-third into this season, he is in the MVP discussion, taking over as the Giants’ No. 3 hitter when Pablo Sandoval was injured earlier this month and carrying the team.

    He went into Wednesday leading the NL in hitting (.376), hits (77), triples (6), total bases (118) and runs (38). Yeah, that Melky Cabrera, the one who left New York with kind of a Ricky Ledee profile and is now knocking Willie Mays out of the Giants record book (most hits in May).

    “He has turned into one of the better hitters in the league,” Arizona GM Kevin Towers said Wednesday by phone. “We haven’t figured out how to get him out this year going back to spring training.”

    And if you think he is just a one-hit wonder, well, it is more like 278 hits. That’s his major league-leading total since the beginning of last year — eight more than second-place Starlin Castro and 34 more than his pal and Yankee hit machine Robinson Cano.
    Which leads to two questions, one looking back and one forward: Why did the Yankees move him? And is Melky Cabrera — yeah, that Melky Cabrera — about to score big in free agency?

    Cabrera was a helpful, supplementary part in a Yankee 2009 World Series title in which the three main starters — CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett and Andy Pettitte — were pushed hard. So the Yanks wanted a workhorse for 2010 and remained infatuated by Javy Vazquez despite his 2004 pinstripe failure.

    Atlanta knew it would move Vazquez to the Yankees once touted prospect Arodys Vizcaino was made the centerpiece of a deal. Then it became about extra pieces. Atlanta had not solved its leadoff situation since Rafael Furcal left after the 2006 season nor center field since Andruw Jones left after 2007. Thus, it was willing to accept either Cabrera or Brett Gardner, who then — like now — was held in high esteem by the Yankee front office. One Atlanta official said the Yankees would not even discuss Gardner.

    “Melky was an extra player for us and we viewed Gardner as a future, every day guy who could play a premium position in center,” Brian Cashman said. “Plus Melky was arbitration eligible and so he looked like he was about to become a very expensive fourth outfielder.”

    With the Braves, Cabrera’s excess weight curtailed his mobility and led to a .255 season and a non-tender. The Yankees actually offered Cabrera a minor league deal, but the
    Royals gave him a guaranteed $1.25 million and sure playing time. That offseason Cabrera worked out with Alex Rodriguez (as he has continued to do) and got into peak shape and became more serious about his game, which are the reasons most cited by scouts for his turnaround.

    He hit .305 last year with 18 homers and the Royals — like the Yanks and Braves — did not believe heavily in him, trading Cabrera to San Francisco for Jonathan Sanchez. Now it is the Giants’ turn to determine if they want a long-term marriage with a player who has fans in the AT&T Park left field stands showing up dressed as “Melkmen.”

    If not, Cabrera becomes a wild card in an intriguing free-agent outfield class. The belief is the Rangers will retain Josh Hamilton and that new Dodger ownership will show its seriousness by inking Andre Ethier. Still, the market would include Michael Bourne, who ironically has solved Atlanta’s center field/leadoff issues, Tampa’s B.J. Upton, Philadelphia’s Shane Victorino and you could even throw in Cabrera’s Giant teammate, former Met Angel Pagan (.313, 10 steals heading into last night).

    Also there is Nick Swisher. Both Cabrera and Swisher are switch-hitters. Swisher has more power, which usually evokes the best paydays. But Cabrera is faster, has a superior arm and is more than three years younger. Plus, he might be trending upward. The suddenly budget conscious Yankees probably will sign neither. But it will be interesting to see what the sport thinks of Cabrera’s rise in comparison to Swisher and the others.

  16. #41

    Re: Bring Back Melky

    Wonder if Yanks would shop Granderson for a package of prospects this offseason and chase Melky

  17. #42
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    Re: Bring Back Melky

    Granderson based on simple production has a team friendly option for 2013 for 13 million so odds are he will be back and I aint complaining.

    Swisher's 10.25 million on the other hands is coming off the books and he is going to become a FA and will highly likely be looking for the best deal possible which the Yankees will probably not be the ones who give that contract out.

    But when it comes to Melky I don't think Cashman can count on Melky being a easy signing anyway whether he reaches FA or doesn't, as of today odds are pretty good the Giants will give him a solid contract and Melky accepts, he is quickly becoming a fan favorite in the Bay and the San Francisco from a players perspective is probably one of the top places to live and play in the majors.

    If anything I'm sure Sabean hopes he cools off so he doesn't have to pay too much for Melky.

    But the fans seem to love him over there, Melky even has is own section of fans who call themselves the "Melkmen."

    http://sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/v...81503&c_id=mlb

  18. #43

    Re: Bring Back Melky

    .413 BABIP compared to .306 career. This isn't going to keep up.

  19. #44
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    Re: Bring Back Melky

    the only way the Yankees would chase Melky is if he's cheaper than Swisher. Long term I think they re-sign Swisher (2-3 year deal) and Cano (6 year deal), try to get a discount on Martin since he's having a terrible year (3 year deal) and let Granderson walk. Gardner can fill his spot in CF until Mason Williams is ready.
    The real reason why the Yankees keep winning is cause the other team can't stop staring at the damn pinstripes

  20. #45
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    Re: Bring Back Melky

    Quote Originally Posted by BronxYanks45 View Post
    the only way the Yankees would chase Melky is if he's cheaper than Swisher. Long term I think they re-sign Swisher (2-3 year deal) and Cano (6 year deal), try to get a discount on Martin since he's having a terrible year (3 year deal) and let Granderson walk. Gardner can fill his spot in CF until Mason Williams is ready.
    Right now Grandy is trending towards a 40-hr season, you can keep him for a team friendly $13M for next season and you want to let him walk
    Forgive me for taking the Contrarian view

  21. #46
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: Bring Back Melky

    Quote Originally Posted by Posada_20 View Post
    Wonder if Yanks would shop Granderson for a package of prospects this offseason and chase Melky
    Why are we trading an elite centerfielder for a package of prospects again?

  22. #47
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Bring Back Melky

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    Why are we trading an elite centerfielder for a package of prospects again?
    To make room for Melky Cabrera, of course.
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  23. #48

    Re: Bring Back Melky

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    Why are we trading an elite centerfielder for a package of prospects again?
    Only logical reason I can think of is to work towards getting payroll to $189M, get elite talent in return, & use the money to pay Cano, or Hamels, or whoever.

    (not that Im advocating making the trade)

  24. #49
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    Re: Bring Back Melky

    What's his batting average with RISP?

  25. #50
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    Re: Bring Back Melky

    However, with roughly $90 million already committed to just four players (Alex Rodriguez, Mark Teixeira, CC Sabathia, and Derek Jeter) it’s not going to be as easy as it appears. Perhaps the biggest hurdle will be Robinson Cano and Curtis Granderson, who both are set to become free agents after the 2013 season and could fetch as much as $20 million each or more.
    http://bronxbaseballdaily.com/2012/0...nd-granderson/

    $189 million 2013 payroll

    28m ARod
    23m CC
    22m Teix
    17m Jeter
    14m Soriano
    ______________
    104 m total

    15m option Cano
    13m option Granderson
    _______________________

    132m Total

    $57m for the rest of roster

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