+ Reply to Thread
Results 51 to 75 of 192
Thread: Josh Hamilton
-
05-12-12 03:40 PM #51
Re: Josh Hamilton
Pujols is slumping too. I don't think Bautista "sucks again". If he had 25 home runs in July and went through this no one would be saying anything close to that. Same with Pujols.
As for Hamilton, as much talent as he has hitting a baseball he is not the most gifted player, ever. Not even close.In Cashman I trust.
Players come and go, flags fly forever.
-
05-12-12 04:18 PM #52
Re: Josh Hamilton
I'm glad I checked your post again and saw the edit.
My comparison with Bautista was how a player can have a really hot streak then turn anonymous all of a sudden. I remember how everyone declared Jose MVP before it was even the all-star break.
But I'm glad Josh is beasting. It's nice to now talent never goes away.40 pitchers, ever, have an ERA+ of 130 or higher for their career. 15 have 140 or higher. 3 guys have 150 or higher - one is right at 150, the second place guy is at 154, and Mariano Rivera is at 205.
-
05-12-12 04:22 PM #53
-
05-12-12 04:27 PM #54
Re: Josh Hamilton
40 pitchers, ever, have an ERA+ of 130 or higher for their career. 15 have 140 or higher. 3 guys have 150 or higher - one is right at 150, the second place guy is at 154, and Mariano Rivera is at 205.
-
05-12-12 04:37 PM #55
Re: Josh Hamilton
He's batting below the Mendoza line. Whether or not Pujols is slumping as well is kind of irrelevant.
As for Hamilton, as much talent as he has hitting a baseball he is not the most gifted player, ever. Not even close.
Huh?
He finished 3rd in MVP voting, and one of the two above him was a pitcher. He lost to one position player by a measly 9 points. Not bad for a player on a team with zero playoff chances. Not an unfair prediction either. Especially since many don't think pitchers should be MVP eligible and he was certainly a better player than Jacoby.
And while his measly .896 OPS in the second half wasn't early as good as his 1st half, this fading to "anonymity" was about 3% off Lord Elsbury's OPS for the season (who finished 2nd in MVP voting). PS: Elsbury plays in Fenway.
43 homeruns, 1.056 OPS, 180 OPS+A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!
-
05-12-12 04:50 PM #56
-
05-12-12 05:03 PM #57
Re: Josh Hamilton
I'm not sure how you could say he's nowhere near as talented as those players.
A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!
-
05-12-12 05:22 PM #58
-
05-12-12 05:24 PM #59
Re: Josh Hamilton
In Cashman I trust.
Players come and go, flags fly forever.
-
05-12-12 05:35 PM #60
Re: Josh Hamilton
On a list of all time players, he's not even in the top 1000 in WAR
http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...R_career.shtml
On the list of active players, he's ranked #83
http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...R_active.shtml
Maybe he needs a few years before you can say he's one of the most talented players of all time?In Cashman I trust.
Players come and go, flags fly forever.
-
05-12-12 05:39 PM #61
-
05-12-12 05:41 PM #62
-
05-12-12 05:42 PM #63
Re: Josh Hamilton
So how do you measure talent then? I don't disagree with you that the man is talented. He's got a sh*t load of it. I only commented because you said he could be one of the most talented of all time. At the end of his career he possibly could be. As it stands now you can't say that. You need the results in order to. So unless you have something to measure his talent by..... show it to me.
In Cashman I trust.
Players come and go, flags fly forever.
-
05-12-12 05:48 PM #64
Re: Josh Hamilton
You watch the player and make a subjective determination of what he is capable of and what his ceiling is. When you see someone like Hamilton, age 31, doing what he does after what he did to himself, there is a damn good argument that he is one of the most talented players ever.
Of course, there is no objective way to measure talent. There is no talent-meter. That's why it's not open and shut. But that doesn't mean you can just substitute any other adjective in there like "accomplished" or whatever else you want.A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!
-
05-12-12 05:53 PM #65
Re: Josh Hamilton
I didn't, you did.
I gave you lists, of active players as well, that measure the level of talent with the best statistic that measures the talent of a player right now. He's ranked 83rd. I'm not sure what else you want. He's got 6 years in the majors. That's enough time to get his stats high enough on the active player's list. Evan Longoria has 5 years and is number 54. Does that make him as talented as Babe Ruth?
In Cashman I trust.
Players come and go, flags fly forever.
-
05-12-12 05:54 PM #66
Re: Josh Hamilton
I don't think cumulative WAR is the way to go here, just because he's only had six productive seasons. He loses out in a big way on counting stats.
If you look at adjusted OPS+, he's at a very respectable 140 for his career and still climbing. After this season he's going to be in some very elite company, just not top ten of all time.
NYYFans Fantasy Baseball: Boras's Holdouts
NYYFans Fantasy Football: Norwood's Wide Rights
-
05-12-12 06:00 PM #67
-
05-12-12 06:08 PM #68
Re: Josh Hamilton
Sure does. If he were eligible (and he will be after this year, barring injury), he'd rank #74 on that OPS+ list. Nothing to sneeze at but he's nowhere near the top 5-10 players in the history of the sport (say what?). That's kinda stretching it more than a bit to say the least. Take away this sick season where he's tearing it up in unheard of ways, and he's barely a whisper when naming the all-time greats.
Still, he's a great player with some admirable accomplishments, especially when you consider what he's been through, his demons and his daily struggles.
-
05-12-12 06:15 PM #69
Re: Josh Hamilton
So Jesus Montero is not at all talented since he has a career WAR of 0.5. Stephen Strasburg too- his career WAR is 4.4. No talent chump.
Career WAR is Career WAR, not talent. You, unilaterally decided talent = accomplishments or career WAR and stubbornly insist that because talent = accomplishments or career WAR, Josh Hamilton is hardly a blip on the radar.
And again, you're discrediting the little blip on his radar known as his developmental years spent away from baseball doing every drug known to man. That's the big question. If he was just doing this and developed like anyone else, no one would think much of it. The fact that he's a very serious triple crown threat while playing center-field at age 31 after what he's been through is what makes people wonder how good he could have been.A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!
-
05-12-12 06:21 PM #70
Re: Josh Hamilton
I can't even respond to that I'm still trying to chew on all the words you just stuffed in my mouth.
I'm gonna watch the Rangers game. If my head stops spinning from your logic I'll come back and argue with you later.In Cashman I trust.
Players come and go, flags fly forever.
-
05-12-12 07:07 PM #71
Re: Josh Hamilton
Utterly ridiculous that anyone can try to argue Josh Hamilton as THE most gifted/talented player in the history of the game. Teknetic, I agree that A-Rod is at least in that (highly subjective) conversation. But I'll take the #1 hitter of all time who also happened to be an elite pitcher.
"Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah
-
05-12-12 07:11 PM #72
Re: Josh Hamilton
Why is it ridiculous? Young ARod in his Mariner (and Texas depending on how you view his steroid use) days was essentially a .315/40/130 SS who also played elite defense and stole 25+ bags a year.
I mean, you can make a case for it, but to just brush off a talent like ARod and basically claim he doesn't even come close to Hamilton is insane.
-
05-12-12 07:15 PM #73
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
- Location
- Brooklyn
-
05-12-12 08:01 PM #74
-
05-12-12 08:23 PM #75
Re: Josh Hamilton
if we want to talk about hitters who can pitch then find a dude with a good OF arm and he can probably dominate in the 1920's
Thread Information
Users Browsing this Thread
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)