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  1. #1826
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman23 View Post
    The thing that bothers me about that view is it's not always about what the team has done to be in the best position they can be in to win, it all comes down to whether they win or lose. The Yanks have put some fantastic teams on the field and have actually lost with them. Losing happens and you need to learn how to cope with it. The fact that the Yankees are a sure fire playoff team nearly every season, and it's been this way for 18 years, is something that 29 other teams in the game wish they could say, just like the 189 mil payroll that was mentioned. And we can bitch and moan and complain about the bad contracts but the Yankees did what they needed to do at the time. You can talk about Alex's contract but he, Tex and CC earned their contracts in 09. I wouldn't change that championship for anything.

    See this is where the spoiled problem comes in. We haven't won since 09 so there are all these fundamental issues with the club. You may say you don;t realistically think they should win every year, but give it 2 or 3 and the complaints come pouring in like mad.

    If I went back to 95 and told everyone here that during the next 18 years the Yankees would have won 5 WS, appeared in 7, and went to the ALCS 9 times, would everyone on this board NOT sign up for that?
    Old farts like us are OK......Hell we went thru the 60's,70's and 80's with an average team.......... Tell the yoots of today whom have seen one WS and 2 billion dollars spent in the last 12 years to be patient

    "Happy Wife.........Happy Life" - unknown

  2. #1827

    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Ah yes, another alcohol soaked episode of "Why I Think I'm a Better Fan" starring montrealer. These re-runs are growing quite tiresome due to the same predictable BS.

  3. #1828
    Re2pect Hitman23's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Well there is going to be a difference of opinion here for those of us who saw the lean years and then have witness the last two decades and those who don't fully understand how truly awesome the last 18 years gave been. The Yankees haven't been a sub .500 team since 1993. Have dominated their division for most of 2 decades, with it being the toughest in all of baseball to be in for most of that time. I mean I don't mean to sound like the "who is the better fan" here or anything, but I really and honestly do take every piece of success this team has seriously. Because at any moment it could fall apart. Sports are cyclical.
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    You're a stranger til she whispers that your journey's over.


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  4. #1829
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax Teller View Post
    Ah yes, another alcohol soaked episode of "Why I Think I'm a Better Fan" starring montrealer. These re-runs are growing quite tiresome due to the same predictable BS.
    at least I have cheese with my whine.......

    "Happy Wife.........Happy Life" - unknown

  5. #1830
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Benefactor View Post
    Yes, I get the impressive string of playoff appearances, but the Yankees ultimate goal is to win a championship. Have you ever heard a player or coach say making the playoffs is the goal and anything else is bonus? If the team has high expectations, why shouldn't the fans? If the team is playing poorly, fans are going to act out in a negative manner and I don't know any fanbase that would do things differently. I guess Yankee fans are suppose to be held to a higher standard.
    I guess my issue is that it is hard for me to associate a 6.5 game lead in August in spite of significant injuries to key players as "playing poorly". Have they looked vulnerable at times? Of course. The only team I've ever rooted for that didn't expose an Achilles heel at any time was the '98 Yankees. I think it's perfectly reasonable to point out poor play, it's the context that is used that often confuses me. This team has already been written off as a WS contender by some. How does that make any sense?

  6. #1831

    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    I guess my issue is that it is hard for me to associate a 6.5 game lead in August in spite of significant injuries to key players as "playing poorly". Have they looked vulnerable at times? Of course. The only team I've ever rooted for that didn't expose an Achilles heel at any time was the '98 Yankees. I think it's perfectly reasonable to point out poor play, it's the context that is used that often confuses me. This team has already been written off as a WS contender by some. How does that make any sense?
    #toomanyhomeruns

    which is ridiculous.
    Thank you for making me calm today, Brett Gardner

  7. #1832
    Your 2014 NY Yankees JDPNYY's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Question about getting under 189 million for 2014:

    Would it be possible to, say, rework ARod's cool ass contract to pay him the league minimum for 2014 and then load the missed money for 2014 to the end of the contract?

    I know ARod would need to agree to this and 2014 could be quite a hardship year for him, might have to get a winter job or something...

    ...but would something along these lines be allowed to skate around the tax issue?
    Pardon, for us.

  8. #1833
    Hello dum-dum... effdamets's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    According to reports, MLB is taking the average salary of the life of the contract.

    So - no, they cannot.
    Nor do I think the players' union will allow such.
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

  9. #1834
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Question about getting under 189 million for 2014:

    Would it be possible to, say, rework ARod's cool ass contract to pay him the league minimum for 2014 and then load the missed money for 2014 to the end of the contract?

    I know ARod would need to agree to this and 2014 could be quite a hardship year for him, might have to get a winter job or something...

    ...but would something along these lines be allowed to skate around the tax issue?
    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    According to reports, MLB is taking the average salary of the life of the contract.

    So - no, they cannot.
    Nor do I think the players' union will allow such.
    Correct. It's the average annual value that get's factored in.

    One idea that was prompted a while back which was ingenious - although I'm not sure permissible and doubt A-Rod would do it - would be to give him an extension for a year at a much lower salary, which would significantly reduce his AAV hit to the lux tax for the next 27 years of his deal.

    If that was permissible and A-Rod did it, he'd get a few extra million guaranteed, would significantly reduce the impact his deal has over the next several years, and go a long way (with me anyway, I'm assuming I'm not alone) towards overlooking his past transgression in opting out the way he did.

  10. #1835
    Hello dum-dum... effdamets's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Correct. It's the average annual value that get's factored in.

    One idea that was prompted a while back which was ingenious - although I'm not sure permissible and doubt A-Rod would do it - would be to give him an extension for a year at a much lower salary, which would significantly reduce his AAV hit to the lux tax for the next 27 years of his deal.

    If that was permissible and A-Rod did it, he'd get a few extra million guaranteed, would significantly reduce the impact his deal has over the next several years, and go a long way (with me anyway, I'm assuming I'm not alone) towards overlooking his past transgression in opting out the way he did.
    Awesome idea....
    Unfortunately, stoopithead Selig would never go for it.
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

  11. #1836
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Correct. It's the average annual value that get's factored in.

    One idea that was prompted a while back which was ingenious - although I'm not sure permissible and doubt A-Rod would do it - would be to give him an extension for a year at a much lower salary, which would significantly reduce his AAV hit to the lux tax for the next 27 years of his deal.

    If that was permissible and A-Rod did it, he'd get a few extra million guaranteed, would significantly reduce the impact his deal has over the next several years, and go a long way (with me anyway, I'm assuming I'm not alone) towards overlooking his past transgression in opting out the way he did.
    I'm not sure if they can just tack another year onto the same contract like that. But even assuming they can, it would only reduce the AAV by about $2M. His current contract is 10/$275M, for an AAV of $27.5M. If they added one year at $5M, the AAV would be 25.5M. That's nice, I suppose, but doesn't really make a big difference in their efforts to cut payroll.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
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  12. #1837

    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    Awesome idea....
    Unfortunately, stoopithead Selig would never go for it.
    Yeah, you're not allowed to do this with contracts to obviously minipulate your cap figure(s).

    All contracts and extensions must be approved by MLB and that wouldn't pass.
    You know they are not real pies, right?

    "I heard Jackie Bradley junior was already voted to the ASG....for the next three years." - NerfBall55 4/4/2013

  13. #1838
    Hello dum-dum... effdamets's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I'm not sure if they can just tack another year onto the same contract like that. But even assuming they can, it would only reduce the AAV by about $2M. His current contract is 10/$275M, for an AAV of $27.5M. If they added one year at $5M, the AAV would be 25.5M. That's nice, I suppose, but doesn't really make a big difference in their efforts to cut payroll.
    By reducing the AAV of Alex's deal, they would have cut payroll according to Selig's rules.
    My suggestion to the Yankees is (if possible) to restructure Alex's contract to exclude the HR incentives and put a few years 'personal services' on the end of the contract....
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

  14. #1839
    Hello dum-dum... effdamets's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoux101 View Post
    Yeah, you're not allowed to do this with contracts to obviously minipulate your cap figure(s).

    All contracts and extensions must be approved by MLB and that wouldn't pass.
    Easy...
    Have Alex retire, then un-retire... Simple.
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

  15. #1840
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    By reducing the AAV of Alex's deal, they would have cut payroll according to Selig's rules.
    My suggestion to the Yankees is (if possible) to restructure Alex's contract to exclude the HR incentives and put a few years 'personal services' on the end of the contract....
    The HR incentives aren't counted in the 10/275M. That's just salary and signing bonus.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  16. #1841
    Hello dum-dum... effdamets's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    The HR incentives aren't counted in the 10/275M. That's just salary and signing bonus.
    Right.
    I get that.
    But what they'd be doing is bascially guaranteeing part of that money instead.
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

  17. #1842

    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax Teller View Post
    Ah yes, another alcohol soaked episode of "Why I Think I'm a Better Fan" starring montrealer
    I'd take that over another chapter of 'why the Yankees suck and don't tell me otherwise or you're a big meanyhead'.
    27 World Championships
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  18. #1843
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    The HR incentives aren't counted in the 10/275M. That's just salary and signing bonus.
    If you want to look at glass half full, the more A-rod is injured the less likely he'll recieve the final 3 incentive payments for passing Aaron, tying Bonds and passing Bonds.

    When they are reached, does that do directly against that year's cap when earned?
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  19. #1844
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I'm not sure if they can just tack another year onto the same contract like that. But even assuming they can, it would only reduce the AAV by about $2M. His current contract is 10/$275M, for an AAV of $27.5M. If they added one year at $5M, the AAV would be 25.5M. That's nice, I suppose, but doesn't really make a big difference in their efforts to cut payroll.
    True... even if you go 2 years at $1MM per it's not a massive reduction in AAV, but when trying to get down from $209MM to $189MM over 2 years, even the $2MM above gets you 10% closer.

    Again, doubt this is possible. Also wouldn't shock me if A-Rod didn't still believe that he'd be leaving money on the table by agreeing to 1/$5MM now for his age 42 season in '18. I just thought it was a clever idea that I hadn't thought of.

  20. #1845
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    If you want to look at glass half full, the more A-rod is injured the less likely he'll recieve the final 3 incentive payments for passing Aaron, tying Bonds and passing Bonds.

    When they are reached, does that do directly against that year's cap when earned?
    Article XXIII, Section E(4)(a): "Any amounts that are actually earned by a Player as Performance Bonuses, Award Bonuses or any other bonuses properly included in a Uniform Player’s Contract shall be included as part of the Player’s Salary in the Contract Year in which the service or performance giving rise to the Bonus was provided. Potential bonuses shall not be included in the Average Annual Value calculation made pursuant to Section E(2) above."
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  21. #1846
    Hello dum-dum... effdamets's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    That's just so MLB covers all the loop holes. Otherwise, everyone would have a base salary of league minimum and freakish amounts of incentives.
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

  22. #1847
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Article XXIII, Section E(4)(a): "Any amounts that are actually earned by a Player as Performance Bonuses, Award Bonuses or any other bonuses properly included in a Uniform Player’s Contract shall be included as part of the Player’s Salary in the Contract Year in which the service or performance giving rise to the Bonus was provided. Potential bonuses shall not be included in the Average Annual Value calculation made pursuant to Section E(2) above."
    Not sure how to interpret that. So let's say he gets his 660th HR in '13 to trigger a $6MM bonus. Does his AAV for next year's lux tax calculation equate to $33.5MM, and then drop back down to $27.5MM in '14 (unless of course he clubs his way to 714 by then)?

  23. #1848
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Not sure how to interpret that. So let's say he gets his 660th HR in '13 to trigger a $6MM bonus. Does his AAV for next year's lux tax calculation equate to $33.5MM, and then drop back down to $27.5MM in '14 (unless of course he clubs his way to 714 by then)?
    Right. It would mean that for 2013 only, his salary would be considered $33.5M.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  24. #1849
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    For non-Yankee fans, it would be a delicious irony if they cut deeper than ideal to get to $188.9, only to have A-Rod achieve a HR milestone to push them back over in '14 (especially if it's the 660 HR milestone rather than 714).

  25. #1850

    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    For non-Yankee fans, it would be a delicious irony if they cut deeper than ideal to get to $188.9, only to have A-Rod achieve a HR milestone to push them back over in '14 (especially if it's the 660 HR milestone rather than 714).
    It's probably based on opening day payroll-- like how Boston waited to sign Gonzalez to an extension after the season began.
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