2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

[Yankee Tripper]

The Yankees' pitching sucks, the hitting sucks, each individual player sucks, they won't make the playoffs, but if they do they won't go far. Most of the farm team sucks, and whoever doesn't will be traded or ruined by the organization. They won't spend money, and if they do it will be too much for too long for the wrong player. Anyone who disagrees with me is a mean person who makes me feel bad.

Did I cover everything?

I think you forgot the Girardi bunts too much but dosen't play enough small ball, has crappy lineups with subs in but doesn't give regulars enough rest, pitches his lower level relievers in games when they are behind but winnable when he should really be trying to win with Robertson & Soriano getting 112 appearaces each but not running them down. He leaves his starters in too long excpet when he pulls them too early.

Add that and it's nearly perfect.

[montrealer]

Win today and sweep on the weekend and all's well........

[effdamets]

I think you forgot the Girardi bunts too much but dosen't play enough small ball, has crappy lineups with subs in but doesn't give regulars enough rest, pitches his lower level relievers in games when they are behind but winnable when he should really be trying to win with Robertson & Soriano getting 112 appearaces each but not running them down. He leaves his starters in too long excpet when he pulls them too early.

Add that and it's nearly perfect.

Mighta s well add....

The Mariners should trade King Fleix to the Yankees for Ramiro Pena and Jack Cust and the D-Backs should send Upton their way for Branyon....

[montrealer]

And Cano and his new agent will sign a hometown discount......

[bomber999]

Post from the better part of a year ago.

Well, its really not that straight forward.

I believe the Yankees have paid around $20M-$25M on average since the 2005 40% tax hike. However, the incentives that come from being under the cap with this new CBA are amazing.

If they are at $189M or less for 2014-2016, they not only avoid paying any luxury tax (which will be 50 percent because they are repeat offenders). They will get roughly $40 million in savings from the "market disqualification revenue sharing program".

Any team under the luxury tax point of $189M will be reimbursed in said program. They are doing that to make sure teams like the NATS don't recieve revenue dollars.

If the Yanks go under $189M million for even 2014 alone and then back over in 2015, they would get about $10 million in the revenue sharing disqualification program and would back to a tax of 17.5% instead of the 50 percent that begins in 2014 for them if they never go below $189M.

The amount of money they will save by simply going under once in 2014 is in the hundreds of millions. It is simply too good to pass up.

Thanks for this post. Really excellent info.

It's nice to read a post which takes a different viewpoint and promotes a rational discussion, instead of ones which are snarky and dismissive arrogance disguised as discussion.

[YankeePride1967]

The Yankees' pitching sucks, the hitting sucks, each individual player sucks, they won't make the playoffs, but if they do they won't go far. Most of the farm team sucks, and whoever doesn't will be traded or ruined by the organization. They won't spend money, and if they do it will be too much for too long for the wrong player. Anyone who disagrees with me is a mean person who makes me feel bad.

Did I cover everything?

That just about does it.

[Shadoux101]

Thanks for this post. Really excellent info.

It's nice to read a post which takes a different viewpoint and promotes a rational discussion, instead of ones which are snarky and dismissive arrogance disguised as discussion.

Well, you are very welcome. It was just a repost of something I wrote a while back.

[Mr Coffee]

Well, you are very welcome. It was just a repost of something I wrote a while back.

Keep it handy. You may need to post that a few more times.

[Mr Coffee]

Totals to this point in the season:

2009: 62-42, 0.5 games up

2012: 61-43, 6.5 games up

[effdamets]

Totals to this point in the season:

2009: 62-42, 0.5 games up

2012: 61-43, 6.5 games up

You'e just trying to make everyone feel better.....

[Yankee Tripper]

Totals to this point in the season:

2009: 62-42, 0.5 games up

2012: 61-43, 6.5 games up

So you are saying 41-17 is what we should expect the rest of the way?

[dabomb2045]

I hear this a lot- that the fans now are spoiled, and expect to win. I actually don't think that very many fans think that winning a WS title every year is in any way realistic. What I think fans do want is to feel like ownership and management are making maximal effort to give them the strongest team possible and that they (the fans) will be rewarded in this way for the $$$ they shower upon the team via ticket sales, merchandise sales, TV ratings, etc. The Yankees are one of, if not the, best known sports franchises in the world. It is galling to hear the Steinbrenners pontificating about austerity measures when their wounds are largely self-inflicted. Nobody forced them to ignore their own GM and sign ARod to the most ridiculous contract in sports history, paying huge money for his decline years. No one told the family to build an opulent baseball palace which costs a billion dollars and charge ridiculous prices for seats to regular season games, driving > 90% of the public right out of the market.

The Yankees are not in a realistic position to trim payroll and maintain status as a contender at this time. You have the liability of ARod's contract, the fact that Cano and Grandy are coming due, and the fact that the Yankees' vaunted farm since Cashman took over has yielded largely disappointing crops. Has anyone taken a look and re-evaluated our scouting and player development systems, in light of the fact that the franchise has not produced a front-line starter in 20 years when other teams appear able to do so much better than us? At what point do we all stop using where we draft as an excuse? Isn't it kind of sad that we all cheer now when Phil Hughes can give the team a league-average, serviceable start, considering what he was supposed to be?

The Yankees want to field a team with a payroll under 189? Fine. Is it possible to win with that? Sure. Is it possible for the Yankees to win with that? Not at this time.

Agreed 100%. This is how I feel completely, we're on the same page. We're not suppose to say this though. We're just suppose to wave pom poms and be happy about everything regarding the team all the time....and never voice frustration or criticize.

[Mr Coffee]

So you are saying 41-17 is what we should expect the rest of the way?

Who knows? I didn't expect 41-17 from the 2009 team either.

[Mr Coffee]

Agreed 100%. This is how I feel completely, we're on the same page. We're not suppose to say this though. We're just suppose to wave pom poms and be happy about everything regarding the team all the time....and never voice frustration or criticize.

Are you through feeling victimized yet?

Perhaps a forum where people have opposing views isn't for you.

[YankeePride1967]

Maybe there is a place where teams never lose a game or ever trail. But then again there will be those that complain about how they do it.

[YankeePride1967]

Agreed 100%. This is how I feel completely, we're on the same page. We're not suppose to say this though. We're just suppose to wave pom poms and be happy about everything regarding the team all the time....and never voice frustration or criticize.

No but realize that losing streaks happen to ALL teams in history. Contrary to popular belief here, there is no perfectly run organization.

[sweet_lou_14]

Are you through feeling victimized yet?

Perhaps a forum where people have opposing views isn't for you.

Maybe I shouldn't put in my two cents, but I don't even know what "opposing views" we're even talking about here.

I see some guys posting about big-picture, long-term concerns about the Yankees and their payroll constraints.

And I see you posting reasons not to panic in the short term, despite the recent string of losses, by comparing this team to other teams, including the 2009 Yankees.

You're not even talking about the same thing -- and therefore it's actually possible to agree with everything you're saying and everything they're saying.

[Mr Coffee]

Maybe I shouldn't put in my two cents, but I don't even know what "opposing views" we're even talking about here.

I see some guys posting about big-picture, long-term concerns about the Yankees and their payroll constraints.

And I see you posting reasons not to panic in the short term, despite the recent string of losses, by comparing this team to other teams, including the 2009 Yankees.

You're not even talking about the same thing -- and therefore it's actually possible to agree with everything you're saying and everything they're saying.

Yeah, I agreed with the same post. It was the second part of his response I was addressing. It's a recurring theme of the 'we're doomed' set.

[YankeePride1967]

Maybe I shouldn't put in my two cents, but I don't even know what "opposing views" we're even talking about here.

I see some guys posting about big-picture, long-term concerns about the Yankees and their payroll constraints.

And I see you posting reasons not to panic in the short term, despite the recent string of losses, by comparing this team to other teams, including the 2009 Yankees.

You're not even talking about the same thing -- and therefore it's actually possible to agree with everything you're saying and everything they're saying.

There is a lot of both, and I agree with both arguments. But there is also some of the folks that tend to drift always to the negative and for a team that has missed the playoffs one time since 1994 (President Clinton was in his first term and Joe DiMaggio and Mickey Mantle were still alive) that bamboozles me.

[False1]

Agreed. We've literally already seen Jim Mora quoted in this thread, with several folks saying thE Yankees are an early exit team at best. There's almost 60 games left and (hopefully) reinforcements on the way. I get being concerned, but writing playoff eulogies is just over the top.

[NerfBall55]

It's not just an opposing view, it's absurdity like "letting CC walk, and not signing Cano AND Granderson" because they're mad we didn't add payroll.

Personally, yes I would have like to see them acquire Greinke, and it could be the non-move that hurts them. But I'm not going to give up on the season because they didn't, or whine incessantly.

[Benefactor]

There is a lot of both, and I agree with both arguments. But there is also some of the folks that tend to drift always to the negative and for a team that has missed the playoffs one time since 1994 (President Clinton was in his first term and Joe DiMaggio and Mickey Mantle were still alive) that bamboozles me.

Yes, I get the impressive string of playoff appearances, but the Yankees ultimate goal is to win a championship. Have you ever heard a player or coach say making the playoffs is the goal and anything else is bonus? If the team has high expectations, why shouldn't the fans? If the team is playing poorly, fans are going to act out in a negative manner and I don't know any fanbase that would do things differently. I guess Yankee fans are suppose to be held to a higher standard.

[YankeePride1967]

Yes, I get the impressive string of playoff appearances, but the Yankees ultimate goal is to win a championship. Have you ever heard a player or coach say making the playoffs is the goal and anything else is bonus? If the team has high expectations, why shouldn't the fans? If the team is playing poorly, fans are going to act out in a negative manner and I don't know any fanbase that would do things differently. I guess Yankee fans are suppose to be held to a higher standard.

Again not what I am talking about. No one is saying if Ivan Nova gets bombed no one should talk about it or critizize him. See the last two posts before yours. I'm talking about fans that because we are in a losing streat, we are doomed in 2014 because of us going to a "austere" as one fan put it $189 million payroll. 29 other teams dream of having a payroll that high. But if we win, then that's to be expected, no big deal. If fans of any team are only happy when their team wins it all, they will have a very miserable fan base. It is NOT a realistic goal. I am talking about the fans that whine/complain when we do bad and when we do good say nothing as "that is what we are supposed to do". Some fans hold the team to a very unrealistic level. Winning is not a birthright to Yankee fans.

[montrealer]

I hear this a lot- that the fans now are spoiled, and expect to win. I actually don't think that very many fans think that winning a WS title every year is in any way realistic. What I think fans do want is to feel like ownership and management are making maximal effort to give them the strongest team possible and that they (the fans) will be rewarded in this way for the $$$ they shower upon the team via ticket sales, merchandise sales, TV ratings, etc. The Yankees are one of, if not the, best known sports franchises in the world. It is galling to hear the Steinbrenners pontificating about austerity measures when their wounds are largely self-inflicted. Nobody forced them to ignore their own GM and sign ARod to the most ridiculous contract in sports history, paying huge money for his decline years. No one told the family to build an opulent baseball palace which costs a billion dollars and charge ridiculous prices for seats to regular season games, driving > 90% of the public right out of the market.

The Yankees are not in a realistic position to trim payroll and maintain status as a contender at this time. You have the liability of ARod's contract, the fact that Cano and Grandy are coming due, and the fact that the Yankees' vaunted farm since Cashman took over has yielded largely disappointing crops. Has anyone taken a look and re-evaluated our scouting and player development systems, in light of the fact that the franchise has not produced a front-line starter in 20 years when other teams appear able to do so much better than us? At what point do we all stop using where we draft as an excuse? Isn't it kind of sad that we all cheer now when Phil Hughes can give the team a league-average, serviceable start, considering what he was supposed to be?

The Yankees want to field a team with a payroll under 189? Fine. Is it possible to win with that? Sure. Is it possible for the Yankees to win with that? Not at this time.

I agree with this post...........

[Hitman23]

The thing that bothers me about that view is it's not always about what the team has done to be in the best position they can be in to win, it all comes down to whether they win or lose. The Yanks have put some fantastic teams on the field and have actually lost with them. Losing happens and you need to learn how to cope with it. The fact that the Yankees are a sure fire playoff team nearly every season, and it's been this way for 18 years, is something that 29 other teams in the game wish they could say, just like the 189 mil payroll that was mentioned. And we can bitch and moan and complain about the bad contracts but the Yankees did what they needed to do at the time. You can talk about Alex's contract but he, Tex and CC earned their contracts in 09. I wouldn't change that championship for anything.

See this is where the spoiled problem comes in. We haven't won since 09 so there are all these fundamental issues with the club. You may say you don;t realistically think they should win every year, but give it 2 or 3 and the complaints come pouring in like mad.

If I went back to 95 and told everyone here that during the next 18 years the Yankees would have won 5 WS, appeared in 7, and went to the ALCS 9 times, would everyone on this board NOT sign up for that?